Obama- Preventive and Indefinite Detention

Originally posted by miragezero
Uh he's talking about Guantanamo prisoners...

I know this thread is long, and this has likely been pointed out, but if so, it bears repeating.

Sure, he brought up Guantanamo, but did he limit this to Guantanamo? No. No, I don't believe he did.

Ergo, though Guantanamo is an EXAMPLE of the perceived "need" for this action, I can assure you that it is not limited to that, and encompasses ANYONE who, for whatever reason, this "regime" deems a threat.

It is yet more assault on our Constitution and Bill of Rights. (I better be careful now. I may be seen as a threat for sup[porting those documents' principles.)

This speech is preposterous and a disturbing indication of things that may be coming.

Obama says he will detain people in the name of national security, which in turn is fundamentally in the name of protecting the liberties of the American people.

The Constitution is one of the most critical factors that gives Americans the wonderful freedoms that they enjoy.

Now, in order to protect our freedoms, Mr. Obama proposes to defy the very document that supports them the most?

He might as well of taken it out of its glass enclosure and spat on it.

The scenery of America, though incredibly beautiful, is not what makes America beautiful.

The monuments and skyscrapers of America, though awe-inspiring and majestic, are not what make America beautiful.

What makes America beautiful is the amazing freedom that its citizens enjoy. The diversity, liberty, and openness of America make it beautiful.

If you take this away, what is left? The answer: A country full of awe-inspiring and beautiful sights that is nevertheless fundamentally ugly. No less ugly than North Korea, no less ugly than Iran.

Erase that which makes America free and you erase a country worth living in and protecting.

What President Obama wants to do in the name of liberty is utterly destructive to it.

Now, believe it or not, I believe that Obama is a good man who has what he thinks are America's best interests at heart. He is, however, horribly misguided.

I don't think that, given the powers outlined by "Preventative and Indefinite Detention", Obama and Co. would use them nefariously. That isn't the problem. The problem? Those are, by no means whatsoever, powers that they should have in the first place.

The one thing in government that, in theory, should be above all that run it is the law. The Constitution is the law.

You cannot act beyond the Constitution and within the law. What Obama proposes is illegal. End of story. Neither he nor any other select group has the right to the powers he proposes.

If every single American was locked in a personal box and given that which is necessary to survive, America would be a much safer place. No murder. No rape. No theft. The streets, skies, and water of America would be clear and clean.

The people of America, however, would be some of the most miserable on the planet. They would probably all crave death.

To be free is a risky thing. Though we are free to do good things and be vocal in our freedom, we are also free to do horrific things and be hurtful to others (although those who do these things are often punished in some form).

It's true; if Americans were stripped of all of their freedoms, America would be a much less risky place to live. It would also be a much lonelier and joyless place to be.

The first humans took risks by exploring and inventing. Where would we be today without that?

The founding fathers took risks when they revolted against the British. Where would the free world be without that?

We, in the name of our liberties, in the name of our freedom and pursuit of happiness, have no choice but to allow some risk of being harmed so that we may continue our free endeavors.

To take away that risk inevitably means to take away our pursuit of joy and freedom.

If you allow this to continue, Mr. Obama, then you have already failed. You have failed America, those who believed in you, those in the world who had hope for you, and not to mention yourself.

I love America, and for every moment I've lived there's been nowhere else on Earth I would want to call home. It's got its problems, it's got its ignorance, but I nevertheless see a country wholeheartedly worth protecting and living in regardless of all that.

I would be much happier to be hit by a bus because I took a risk and walked outside to enjoy a free, unrestricted life than to die in a closed-up room of natural causes after a lifetime of never leaving my home.

[edit on 28-6-2009 by MEAT10AF]

Evil men could wipe out every bit of skyline and scenery in America and that would not destroy it. Mr. Obama can make the constitution become a joke and you can consider an America worth living and participating in gone.

To act outside of the constitution, Mr. Obama has already abused the power that he has been endowed with.

President Barack Obama of the free and wonderful country of the U.S.A., do your job by respecting its foundations and keeping it free. Thank you.

No, No. You folks have it all wrong. You are all suffering from a mental desease.
As i understand it, from my family and neighbors, he is doing a fine job and he is just simply trying to straighten up what Bush did.

Really. Theres nothing to worry about. So they say.

Really.

reply to post by MEAT10AF
Not letting your meat loaf I see.

Many a good point well made there, but as W said, the constitution is just a GD piece of paper. He’s correct about that, but probably not in the way he meant it. If the principles outlined in that grand document do not live in the hearts and minds of the people it is meant to be law for, then it is meaningless and useless. We know that many of us are so possessed of a love of freedom and justice, but are there enough? Have we passed the tipping point where apathy and ignorance have gained enough momentum to carry us down into tyranny? I fear we are soon to find out, as either direction we go now will bring catastrophe to many. This is no time be fearful though, as we must work while it is still light. Get the truth out as best you can, however and whenever you can.

Now's the time to turn the tide
Now's the time to fight
Let us not go gently
To the endless winter night
Now's the time to make the time
While hope is still in sight
Let us not go gently
To the endless winter night

Funny how a man's ideals can change after he's read all of the intelligence reports, ya?

Originally posted by miragezero
Reply to post by nenothtu

No you did not touch a nerve; you just are in general annoying as are all human behaviors that ignore logic and collective welfare. Someone that quotes THEMSELVES and viewing their own (often ridiculous) statements as so awesome as to be repeated in every post they make is under delusions of grandeur IMHO! As a result I think my time here is growing short. In the end I only wanted to persuade you guys and specifically sgt chas away from doing some criminal act of *destruction* that would and SHOULD result in your arrest. End of story. You could all be full of # also which is pretty likely. If all you are going to do is complain about health care and cap and trade on the net then... lol, society marches on and sadly you guys are unhappy. I really do feel sorry for you because we really do have it quite good compare do humans in history and are on the verge of so many wonderful changes that I really am sad for you. You're a butthole neo which is why I haven't responded to you much. You only want to argue and toot your horns. You and, in general, the "patriots" do not consider the populace when making your determinations which should be foremost in your thoughts. The people control this country, always have, and always will until such time as to render it moot (the singularity). I personally wish you the best as you wait for a SHTF scenario that will so very likely never occur. In addition I would rather be in society working towards our species' progress than sitting there hunkered down afraid of my own shadow. Later vader.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by miragezero]

Well, going by your rant, I guess I DID touch a nerve! Sorry 'bout that. I pride myself in my ability to annoy, given the proper 'stumulus'

"Collective welfare"? I've been among folks that were fighting hard to get out of your "collectives". They claimed it was far too stifling of the human spirit, and I HAVE to agree, since they were the ones that had to live it. Of course, there are a number here who are far TOO dependent on "welfare". They might appreciate a good "collective", so long as someone else is footing the bills and doing the work to support it.

Speaking of logic, while you were attempting to denigrate mine, did you happen to include any of your own in that rant? If so, I missed it.

My sig? That's not any sort of grand quotable quote. It's a simple statement of where I stand. If that bothers you, stand elsewhere. Simple solution, eh?

If your goal is to persuade me of anything, I submit to you that dropping to the level of name-calling and gutter language, over logic, is probably not the best way to go about it.

I generally consider nothing BUT the well being of the US populace in making my determinations. However, I'm done working for the progress of the species. Been there, done that, checked it off, and the species keeps marching on toward oblivion. Too much to do, in too wide an area. I'm geared more towards working in society to further American progress these days. The rest can march off a cliff as far as I'm concerned.

What IS this "singularity" business you're on about?



[edit on 2009/6/28 by nenothtu]

I pray everyday that someone will assassinate Obama. NO that is NOT a threat btw US government, I have the right to free speech.

Originally posted by nenothtu

I pride myself in my ability to annoy, given the proper 'stumulus'

Never would have guessed.

Originally posted by nenothtu
I guess
I DID
I pride :
I've been
I HAVE
I missed
My sig
I submit
I generally consider
I'm done
I'm geared

Yeah... I know...

Originally posted by nenothtu

What IS this "singularity" business you're on about?

It is generally why you cannot truly hit a nerve with me; sorry. You're not the only smartass on earth or the best one. lol.. The futures gonna be peachy-keen mate.

Here.

And here.

Here.

Originally posted by ironspy
Funny how a man's ideals can change after he's read all of the intelligence reports, ya?

More like, it's amazing how you can stop lying once you're elected.