What I am hearing from this speech is that Obama wants to hold captive ANY prisoner of war for ANY given amount of time.

I thought they already did this?

Seems like nothing new to me except he is actually legitimizing it this time around. That way no one can complain about our "prisoners".

I do not see how he is treading over the constitution, because that applies only to American citizens.

It is hypocritical though that "the best form of government in the world" can do whatever it wants to those outside of it.

I Hate Obama - but this speech isn't ringing the bells for me in regards to it being a radical change.

Originally posted by Totakeke
I've said it before and I'll say it again: George Orwell is turning over in his grave.

I think "spinning" would be more accurate at this stage.

I'm not sure I believe that this speech really happened. Isn't it possible that this was a dress-rehearsal? A play? A joke with implied punchline - "gotcha! just kiddin'!"? Surely the President of the United States of America did not announce live to the planet his intention to use pre-emptive incarceration?

The mere suggestion of such a concept in any context by an elected official of a constitutional (increasingly democratic) republic in the 21st century C.E. is justification for, if not full vindication of, all the tin-foil you can fit on your head.

Whether he intends to use such a power on a duly convicted mass murderer or Mother Theresa is completely beside the point: that he asserts a claim to such a power at all and even suggests its use. Our legal system, since its earliest predecessor's conception in Rome over 2 millennia ago, has at its core held verifiable, observable fact as the only valid basis for litigation and judgment. The only time capable of being judged is the past and until such judgment has been made innocence is the only valid presumption. Suddenly, one man has decided that the purview of his power, which is not legal or judicial in nature to begin with, can and will include the future and necessitates presumption of guilt?

Say what you will about Bush and the Constitution - he trampled, encroached upon, failed to abide by, and/or wiped his *** with it - Obama has just stated his intent to openly defy it along with respect for the rule of law and limitations of presidential power.

I think "Change we can believe in" was a warning: take seriously my intentions or suffer the consequences of your disbelief.

Originally posted by miragezero
Uh he's talking about Guantanamo prisoners...

Come now, you are able to type a full sentence on a computer, so I'm sure you're possessed of the intelligence required to realize that unless THAT is spelled out and specified, then the law can be used against anyone NOT specifically exempted from it.

I think I am like a lot of Americans in that I feel quite frog like but I know it’s not yet time to jump.

I certainly feel that twitching in my legs though and that heightened state of awareness and arousal and my senses are finally honed to catch even the slightest of scents on the wind.

Sooner or later the Administration, the Government, the Powers that Be do have to make a big leap, one that they are broadcasting, one that they are slowly preparing Americans for, one that they are trying to gauge just how many of the frogs in the pond will jump when they do and jump all over them.

I think one of the saddest things about these kinds of threads is they end up getting a 100 flags and 10 posters.

The other 90 frogs need to stop worrying about getting flies in their mouths and speak up for Pete’s sake!

They can’t fear what they don’t know, and they don’t know if those other 90 flaggers are literally waiting for the day when they too can sleep in a government cot in a government facility with a delicious government meal digesting in their stomach.

Speak up people, be real patriots and not pretend patriots, show them that you don’t live in fear despite the fact that they promote a culture of fear and give them something to fear in promoting it by saying clearly “I WILL JUMP ALL OVER THE GOVERNMENT AND IT’S AGENTS IF THEY TAMPER WITH THE CONSTITUTION AND MY CIVIL RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES”

See that wasn’t so hard was it?

Frogs actually have bones, including spines unlike far too many Americans these days!

We should be the ones giving the creeps in Washington something to think about, not the other way around!

Soon they might want to Indefinately Detain me....just for reading stuff like this. Could be deemed as Terrorist Activity.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by miragezero
Uh he's talking about Guantanamo prisoners...

Come now, you are able to type a full sentence on a computer, so I'm sure you're possessed of the intelligence required to realize that unless THAT is spelled out and specified, then the law can be used against anyone NOT specifically exempted from it.

Show me the law smart guy. Prove what you are saying. PROOF. He's talking about Guantanamo prisoners. My proof is in the original link.

Originally posted by WolfmanJ
Soon they might want to Indefinately Detain me....just for reading stuff like this. Could be deemed as Terrorist Activity.

Indeed.

Unless you report this thread, and all participants in in, to FBI, DHS, CIA, NSA, ATF, and a host of other alphabet agencies (get 'em all - if you miss one, they'll feel left out, and the agencies don't like to share amongst themselves - you gotta notify each one separately), you are guilty of conspiracy to commit something or other (they'll fill in the blanks later), collusion in something or other, and consorting with known malcontents.

'Tis true. The Obama hath spoken unto his minions, through his mouthpiece the Napolitano. Yea verily, we are toast.

Originally posted by miragezero

Show me the law smart guy. Prove what you are saying. PROOF. He's talking about Guantanamo prisoners. My proof is in the original link.

Ooh, touchy, aren't we? Did I hit a nerve or something? I concede that he did mention the word "Guantanamo" once, but the connection is unclear. Other connections are not as unclear, but you'd have to view the video with an open mind, while at the same time being able to weed out the obvious political bias in it. You appear to have successfully weeded out the political bias, but unfortunately inserted your own in it's place.

How much proof do you need of how specificity is used, and misused, in law? If it's very much, I advise you to avoid any legal entanglements.

That was ObamaSpeak. You know, like "Change we can believe in". Like the promises of "transparency in government" (evidently not his, though). Like promises of pending legislation being posted on the internet in a timely manner that it could be examined and discussed before being shoved through the process without meaningful debate, or even a full reading of said legislation.

You know, TALK like that.

We'll see how it's written up into code, how specificity is applied, and then you can call me "smart guy" again.

Just think how good it will make you feel!

[edit on 2009/6/27 by nenothtu]

This isn't anything new. The media used to do this to Bush all the time too. They would take a speech, cut out peaces and conveniently fill in the gaps with their own rhetoric. Looks like they're doing it to Obama now. If anything, it makes me distrust the msnbc. I'm going to do the smart thing and find a transcription of his full speech to make my own decision... not some watered down, baised, spun for ratings version of it.

Just for the record, I didn't vote for Obama, I didn't vote for McCain. I did my OWN research on all of the candidates to make an informed decision, something I recommend everyone does before passing judgment on things like this.

Reply to post by nenothtu

No you did not touch a nerve; you just are in general annoying as are all human behaviors that ignore logic and collective welfare. Someone that quotes THEMSELVES and viewing their own (often ridiculous) statements as so awesome as to be repeated in every post they make is under delusions of grandeur IMHO! As a result I think my time here is growing short. In the end I only wanted to persuade you guys and specifically sgt chas away from doing some criminal act of *destruction* that would and SHOULD result in your arrest. End of story. You could all be full of # also which is pretty likely. If all you are going to do is complain about health care and cap and trade on the net then... lol, society marches on and sadly you guys are unhappy. I really do feel sorry for you because we really do have it quite good compare do humans in history and are on the verge of so many wonderful changes that I really am sad for you. You're a butthole neo which is why I haven't responded to you much. You only want to argue and toot your horns. You and, in general, the "patriots" do not consider the populace when making your determinations which should be foremost in your thoughts. The people control this country, always have, and always will until such time as to render it moot (the singularity). I personally wish you the best as you wait for a SHTF scenario that will so very likely never occur. In addition I would rather be in society working towards our species' progress than sitting there hunkered down afraid of my own shadow. Later vader.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by miragezero]

Originally posted by miragezero
Uh he's talking about Guantanamo prisoners...

Like I've said before to you miragezero...

Whatever helps you get to sleep at night.

Open your eyes!!!

Originally posted by cbianchi513

Originally posted by miragezero
Uh he's talking about Guantanamo prisoners...

Like I've said before to you miragezero...

Whatever helps you get to sleep at night.

Open your eyes!!!

OMG I bow to you because you have been in the military (me too btw) and you obviously have a better handle on reality than anyone else ESPECIALLY those sheep who just can't seem to open their eyes because they have such a poor life afterall... stable power be damned, net and info and other gov't projects such as fusion be damned, medical science be damned, and omg green tech be damned because we should continue burning fossil fuels like we did for the past 100 years because it's so cool and we cannot engineer anything better despite the advent of puters and increase in computation 100101000100101010 fold...

I am cleaning my old apt at the moment and have finsished off the bottle of banana rum from teh caymans honeymoon so as not to get busted for open container and now i must leave. My wife is driving. I really hate sarcasm as it is a pitiful form of wit but what can I say I am american and it comes with the territory. I applaud you for being in the service and just like all americans and the rest of the earthlings I love you very much. You are just wrong... SO wrong. :-( LOL i'm sorry but you are! Lub you tho.

Originally posted by miragezero
Reply to post by nenothtu

No you did not touch a nerve; you just are in general annoying as are all human behaviors that ignore logic and collective welfare. Someone that quotes THEMSELVES and viewing their own (often ridiculous) statements as so awesome as to be repeated in every post they make is under delusions of grandeur IMHO! As a result I think my time here is growing short. In the end I only wanted to persuade you guys and specifically sgt chas away from doing some criminal act of *destruction* that would and SHOULD result in your arrest. End of story. You could all be full of # also which is pretty likely. If all you are going to do is complain about health care and cap and trade on the net then... lol, society marches on and sadly you guys are unhappy. I really do feel sorry for you because we really do have it quite good compare do humans in history and are on the verge of so many wonderful changes that I really am sad for you. You're a butthole neo which is why I haven't responded to you much. You only want to argue and toot your horns. You and, in general, the "patriots" do not consider the populace when making your determinations which should be foremost in your thoughts. The people control this country, always have, and always will until such time as to render it moot (the singularity). I personally wish you the best as you wait for a SHTF scenario that will so very likely never occur. In addition I would rather be in society working towards our species' progress than sitting there hunkered down afraid of my own shadow. Later vader.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by miragezero]

And I give you -drum roll- yet another person that doesn't get it. If you want to believe the Obama dream then my friend, rock on. There are those of us though, that want to live on planet reality and are upset with the sweeping changes that are taking place. If this is the change that you had 'hoped' for then I feel sorry for you. This is obviously a president that doesn't care about campaign promises, of consistancy.
I say we impeach the teleprompter!

Originally posted by miragezero
Uh he's talking about Guantanamo prisoners...

At 6.52 he says there are people in foreign camps and American cities....

He is not only talking about those in Gitmo I suggest you listen again

I often wondered what it would have been like to be a Jewish person living in the spiraling madness of 1930s Nazi Germany, and what would have been my tipping point to flee the country. Now I can see the same thing starting to happen in the USA. What is YOUR tipping point to either run or make a stand.
Before things get much closer to the cliffs edge a peoples leader will have to emerge and rally the citizens from their slumber or all is lost.
Right now I'm so glad I live in another country.

I'm trying to figure out if Obama is the re-incarnation of Karl Marx or Adolph Hitler, I'll bet before the end of the year he will go down as the worst and most despised President in history.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by Boomer1941]