New Analysis Video of the STS-75 Tether Incident

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

so are you saying depthoffield is wrong and these are not stars ?






if they are stars everything you just wrote is a bunch of baloney

How do you work that out!

reply to post by wmd_2008

How do you work that out!

sorry but i'm not going to keep repeating myself. go back and read my previous posts and you will see why if those are stars as DOF claims they are...YOU are wrong.

Since you like videos easynow why dont you recheck that video and look for the objects I have indicated.There are a few of these in the area!


Let me know your take on that!

The only one(s) talking or should that be typing BALONEY are the people like you!

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

How do you work that out!

sorry but i'm not going to keep repeating myself. go back and read my previous posts and you will see why if those are stars as DOF claims they are...YOU are wrong.

Please explain WHY the only reason they can be seen is because of the magnification THAT does not change what I am claiming!

[edit on 22-10-2009 by wmd_2008]

reply to post by wmd_2008


i understand what your saying about the blurry ufo's and i agree that it's very possible that some of the objects are close to the camera however i also believe that some are not close to the camera. the ones i believe are not close to the camera i would have to point to them so you would see what i am saying. unfortunately that isn't going to happen tonight , maybe tomorrow.

either way , we still don't know what the objects are and where they originated from and it's my opinion that until someone gets the official version of the video from NASA nobody can prove anything period....after all we are working with a youtube video that has been compressed resized and distorted and trying to make any final judgments with evidence like that is Ridiculous.

i see a cold beer in my very near future ,
peace i'm gone for the night

reply to post by easynow


Well mate hope you enjoyed your beer do I detect that you may be coming round to my way of thinking about this!

Cheers!

reply to post by wmd_2008

If you look at the video you see his sketch tether length is 12 miles so if object passes behind tether as you lot claim it looks like
the dia of the object is about 1/10th-1/12th the tether length so would have to be about a mile across minimum at that distance.

Yes i know that
But it's not the visible length of the tether cable that is the problem here, that is probably showing up right on the videos.
But.....

Consider the diameter of the tether cable, i think it was 2.54cm or something close to it.
Would you say that that is what we see in these videos? What diameter do you get if you calculate it with the length of the tether cable?

And also consider this, the distance the tether is from the camera and it's only 2.54cm in diameter....
The whole tether length is visible, around 19.7 kilometres.
This does not, send some type of warning signal to you?

The optical effect that makes it seem that the object passes behind the tether is due to light levels and contrast between the objects
NOT the lens constuction.

First i want an explanation of the optical effect on the tether cable itself.

The shape of this object is due to the lens conctruction.

It could be....
Or perhaps not...
There are other things also that is not consistent ....
But i'll bring them up when i have time to post again

reply to post by Balez




Although the cable was only 2.5cm thick there are a few reason given to why its visible at that distance a build up of static charge some people on here claim plasma? it reflects the sunlight and it looks over exposed.
The thing is the thickness of the tether has nothing to do with the dia of the object as we do see an know how long the tether was so if behind the tether they would be at least a mile in dia.

Link to a video a different lens on an out of focus point of light
(please read the more info on this link)

www.youtube.com...

Similar effect to the tether objects

Reflecting telescope with a star out of focus

www.youtube.com...

Wow that's funny similar effect so dont say its not due to the construction of the optics of the camera!

Here another for good measure

www.youtube.com...



[edit on 23-10-2009 by wmd_2008]

there is no point arguing about multidimensional objects from a 2 dimensional picture perspective......

reply to post by wmd_2008


What is obvious, from the thickness of the tether, FAR FAR thicker in the video than it is in reality, is that it is distorted. We know that the tether is not floating a meter or two outside of the shuttle, but yet it is distorted. The UFOs could easily be as distant from the shuttle as the tether is, and equally distorted as the tether, which is what the situation appears to be.

If the tether appeared as a very thin slice of brightness, then it could be claimed that the UFOs were camera distortions of up close objects, but being that the thickness of the tether is so over exaggerated, then clearly, what we see in the video is distorted at the distance of the tether itself, being that the tether itself is distorted.

reply to post by poet1b




WRONG You guys all made claims for why the tether looked like it did with static charge build up to plasma around it, so now its convenient to ignore that and claim its distorted by the camera and so the other objects are as well.
Think carefully about what you are claiming here somehow the distortion only effects the width of the object because you know the tether was about 20 miles long. So you say the width along one axis is distorted so that would mean if the BOKEH which passes behind the tether as you claim would be a few cm in one direction but a km in the other if what you said was true.

Now if you watch the video why do the circular objects seem to shrink in both directions when the camera zooms out ?

Your clutching at straws with that theory poet1b.

Watch the video really close look at the faintest white circles that cross the field of view see if you can spot something very interesting about them LOOK REALLY CLOSE! Let me know if you notice something.
The ones I mean are indicated in this picture below! A few appear on screen if you look.



Lets see who spots it.




[edit on 24-10-2009 by wmd_2008]

reply to post by wmd_2008

The thing is the thickness of the tether has nothing to do with the dia of the object as we do see an know how long the tether was so if behind the tether they would be at least a mile in dia.

Let me think.
So you are saying, at that distance and the length of the tether cable all objects near the tether has to be one mile in diameter (or bigger), but it's totally OK for the tether cable diameter to be 2.54 cm in diameter and still be visible at that distance.
Weird isn't it?

Link to a video a different lens on an out of focus point of light
(please read the more info on this link)

www.youtube.com...

Similar effect to the tether objects

Reflecting telescope with a star out of focus

www.youtube.com...

Wow that's funny similar effect so dont say its not due to the construction of the optics of the camera!

Here another for good measure

www.youtube.com...

I'm not disputing the fact that this happens and that it exists.
I'm more or less considering other alternatives for the camera artefact theory.
What makes me hesitant to consider the camera artefact theory is that there is allot of things to consider, like the physics in microgravity, speed of the shuttle, where the debris are coming from, why they stay around for so long around the shuttle, and why they are not a constant with the shuttle.

It looks easy to say one thing and stick with it because it is the most likely explanation but sometimes, nothing is easy, and something looking like a cigar might actually be a hot-dog

reply to post by Balez


Are you really trying to be dumb lets look at what you said above

Let me think.
So you are saying, at that distance and the length of the tether cable all objects near the tether has to be one mile in diameter (or bigger), but it's totally OK for the tether cable diameter to be 2.54 cm in diameter and still be visible at that distance.
Weird isn't it?

You JUST IGNORE the reasons why!!!! the cable is visible although only 2.5 cm thick. If that image on screen of the cable length is X and and if the dia of an object which you guys claim passes BEHIND is 1/10th -1/12 th the length of x and we know x is approx 20 miles long the that object must be at least 20/12 or 1.667 miles in dia minimum!.
I have given reasons why the cable can be seen although its only 2.5 cm thick the charge built up in it, the reflected sunlight and the overexposure of the image. Some of your fellow believers even claimed PLASMA surrounding the tether.

Lets have a look at the next statement you make!

I'm not disputing the fact that this happens and that it exists.
I'm more or less considering other alternatives for the camera artefact theory.
What makes me hesitant to consider the camera artefact theory is that there is allot of things to consider, like the physics in microgravity, speed of the shuttle, where the debris are coming from, why they stay around for so long around the shuttle, and why they are not a constant with the shuttle.

Now lets see you agreee camera artifacts happen because i gave you various links to the SAME thing happening with lenes and telescopes.
Now you just want to FORGET about that because you think somehow microgravity,the shuttle speed and where the debris comes from causes the artifacts well a lot of the debris is just travelling along with the shuttle so speed is similar so please explain how any of this BS actually would cause the artifact. I mean you have evidence of how the lens can cause it but why just except it when it doesn't concur with your warped reality!

Did you actually look at the video did you follow the object your fellow believer poet1b asked me to follow it has the typical shape but guess what happens when the camera zooms out it comes into focus as a point of light
its still in the same microgravity etc all that change was the camera zoom and focus yet according to what you claim its not the camera so please explain!

reply to post by wmd_2008


In the tether video the tether would have to be over a half a mile thick, in order for the dimensions to be reflective of what we are seeing on the screen, and in none of these claims of camera distortion is this explained, and claims otherwise are just more rubbish.

The same things that distort the tether also distorts what we are seeing in this video. Which provides more evidence that what we are seeing in the video of close to the tether, as they appear on similar light, and appear to be distorting on the same ways.

reply to post by poet1b

One information we do not have is the angle of the tether to the shuttle, if it was almost seen from one end of the tether they it would look much shorter than seen completely from the side, so, although we know the length of the tether we do not know in what way perspective is changing that length, and the distortion made by the overexposure may be enough to explain the apparent width of the tether.

And while overexposure applies to all objects in the scene, the out of focus only applies to those closer to the shuttle.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

What is obvious, from the thickness of the tether, FAR FAR thicker in the video than it is in reality, is that it is distorted. We know that the tether is not floating a meter or two outside of the shuttle, but yet it is distorted. The UFOs could easily be as distant from the shuttle as the tether is, and equally distorted as the tether, which is what the situation appears to be.

If the tether appeared as a very thin slice of brightness, then it could be claimed that the UFOs were camera distortions of up close objects, but being that the thickness of the tether is so over exaggerated, then clearly, what we see in the video is distorted at the distance of the tether itself, being that the tether itself is distorted.

Wrong the tether isn't any thicker it APPEARS thicker due to the reasons given. The tether is NOT thicker due to lens distortion its due to the charge built up, reflected sunlight and the over exposure.

The lens artifact 3 links which I have no doubt you have look at in my previous post above but just in case the links again below.
OH Before you come back with "but thats not the same camera as NASA used." The whole point of the links is to show what a out of focus point of light looks like 3 different lens types 4 if you include the one on the shuttle and they all show a SIMILAR type of distortion!

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Also how do you explain what happens to the object YOU asked us to look at, what happens when the camera zooms back it changes from the bokeh shape does it not!




[edit on 25-10-2009 by wmd_2008]

reply to post by wmd_2008

Are you really trying to be dumb lets look at what you said above

No, not really. And insults is the smart way obviously.

You JUST IGNORE the reasons why!!!! the cable is visible although only 2.5 cm thick. If that image on screen of the cable length is X and and if the dia of an object which you guys claim passes BEHIND is 1/10th -1/12 th the length of x and we know x is approx 20 miles long the that object must be at least 20/12 or 1.667 miles in dia minimum!.

I'm not ignoring anything at all.
Ok, we agree that the tether diameter is 2.54cm, right?
It's visible several kilometres away right?
Now, please explain to me, why other objects with the diameter ranging from 2cm - 5cm's be visible from that distance, but not having the same length as the tether cable.

Or, to make my point clear....
Let's say you know the length of the tether but not the diameter, so you start with calculating that on what you know, and that is the length of the cable itself.
And dont say 2,54cm's because then you are lying.

I have given reasons why the cable can be seen although its only 2.5 cm thick the charge built up in it, the reflected sunlight and the overexposure of the image. Some of your fellow believers even claimed PLASMA surrounding the tether.

Haha, fellow believers? I doubt i have any of those.....
Yepp the why and how and all that is probably correct.
Now tell me, why that could not be true for other small objects near the tether?

Now lets see you agreee camera artifacts happen because i gave you various links to the SAME thing happening with lenes and telescopes.
Now you just want to FORGET about that because you think somehow microgravity,the shuttle speed and where the debris comes from causes the artifacts well a lot of the debris is just travelling along with the shuttle so speed is similar so please explain how any of this BS actually would cause the artifact. I mean you have evidence of how the lens can cause it but why just except it when it doesn't concur with your warped reality!

Haven't any one ever told you that insults is a child's game?

Now, objects that you see going in one direction on those videos are not travelling with the shuttle. Only objects that are at a constant with the shuttle travels with the shuttle and what you see on those videos are moving which means they are not at a constant with the shuttle.
But according to you, physics is BS.

Did you actually look at the video did you follow the object your fellow believer poet1b asked me to follow it has the typical shape but guess what happens when the camera zooms out it comes into focus as a point of light
its still in the same microgravity etc all that change was the camera zoom and focus yet according to what you claim its not the camera so please explain!

I said Lens.

How does the tether look when the camera zooms out? As a white line, without the hollowness in it.
Well when zoomed in on the tether looks like it is hollowed out on the inside and you only see the white on the sides of that hollowness, quite similar to what happens when there is zoom on these objects, you get this hollowness in the middle, same thing happens with the tether, the problem is, the tether is soo much longer than the other small pieces floating around with it.

Could we stop with the insults? We are here to deny ignorance, not embrace it.
What i try to present here is a theory.
What you are saying is a theory.
Everything we are saying is a theory until it is proven as a fact.
And in the end, no one has the facts on this... Yet.

reply to post by Balez



What other objects 2.5 cm dia at the distance of the tether?
The really faint are very close to the camera the other objects that poet1b indicted are slightly furher away BUT none of the objects are near the tether all thes objects are very close to a few mtrs from the shuttle thats why they appear the way they do!
At no point in time have I said any of these objects are close to the tether you guys claim the objects pass behind but me and others on here have stated thats an effect due to the difference in brightness of the objects and the fact that the objects close to the shuttle are out of focus due to a depth of field effect.
When I spoke about the speed of the object the relative speed of the objects to the shuttle is not that great and whats really interesting about YOUR THEORY that the microgravity and speed causes the effect ,then its the fact the objects are as far away as the tether make your mind up you have NO evidence for your speed micro gravity claim its a BS statement to deflect from the real evidence given in the other links I posted about lens artifacts.
Its funny that you and poet1b haven't commented on the fact that your objects display thai CLASSIC out of focus bokeh shape yet when the camera zooms out they pop nicley into focus and look like a small bright point.
With regards to the thickness of the tether ONCE more the reasons given for how thick it looks are charge built up ,reflected sunlight and overexposure ,the overexposure part will be partly to blame in the change in look when zoomed out.
Now if these objects YOU and others claim are at the distance of the tether and are being distoted as you claim (with no reason) the same way as the tether we can say the width of the objects are exaggerated but the length of the object would still be relative to the length of the tether!
Now can you please explain why the objects shrink in all diections when the camera zooms out ie larger circle to smaller circle to a point of light.
Wating for your answers!


[edit on 26-10-2009 by wmd_2008]

[edit on 26-10-2009 by wmd_2008]

reply to post by wmd_2008

What other objects 2.5 cm dia at the distance of the tether?

Debris from the tether.

At no point in time have I said any of these objects are close to the tether you guys claim the objects pass behind but me and others on here have stated thats an effect due to the difference in brightness of the objects and the fact that the objects close to the shuttle are out of focus due to a depth of field effect.

Never have i said that you did say that those objects are close to the tether.
Yepp, you and many others have claimed that.
I haven't claimed anything, i'm presenting a theory.

When I spoke about the speed of the object the relative speed of the objects to the shuttle is not that great and whats really interesting about YOUR THEORY that the microgravity and speed causes the effect ,then its the fact the objects are as far away as the tether make your mind up you have NO evidence for your speed micro gravity claim its a BS statement to deflect from the real evidence given in the other links I posted about lens artifacts.

IF the objects speed would be relative to the shuttle you would not see them moving at all. That's is called "constant".
I haven't said that the microgravity and speed causes the effect on the camera.
I've said that debris around the shuttle that you see moving will not be around the shuttle very long.

It doesn't have to be much, but when the spaceshuttle is in orbit it travels with a speed of and around 17,000mph (7800m/s).
As I said, small objects that you see around the shuttle moving will not stay for a long time they will either pass the shuttle or be left behind, quickly.
If i remember correctly this filming of the tether was going on for 45 minutes(?).
They must have done a world record water dump! Or is that space record?
And, btw, You have no real evidence.... What you have is suggestions from similar incidents, mostly based on earthly incidents.

This is space, things doesn't move the same way or behave in the same way as here on earth.
The camera works the same way....
This is the reason why NASA have people that go trough training to view things like this, and at times, even they dont know what they are seeing.

Its funny that you and poet1b haven't commented on the fact that your objects display thai CLASSIC out of focus bokeh shape yet when the camera zooms out they pop nicley into focus and look like a small bright point.

I did comment on that actually.....

reply to post by Balez

How does the tether look when the camera zooms out? As a solid white line, without the hollowness in it. Well when zoomed in on the tether looks like it is hollowed out on the inside and you only see the white on the sides of that hollowness, quite similar to what happens when there is zoom on these objects, you get this hollowness in the middle, same thing happens with the tether, the problem is, the tether is soo much longer than the other small pieces floating around with it.

reply to post by wmd_2008

Now if these objects YOU and others claim are at the distance of the tether and are being distoted as you claim (with no reason) the same way as the tether we can say the width of the objects are exaggerated but the length of the object would still be relative to the length of the tether!

How would you differentiate that?
If the length is the same as the diameter, how would you know what you are seeing? Is it the the length or the diameter you are seeing? Do you know?
So it's not relative at all. Then you have to say that the diameter is relative to the length of the tether on the tether, which it isn't because and as you say, distortion by light, electric charge/plasma.

Now can you please explain why the objects shrink in all diections when the camera zooms out ie larger circle to smaller circle to a point of light.
Wating for your answers!

I have.
I quoted it, you can't miss it.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by Balez]

Originally posted by Balez
First i want an explanation of the optical effect on the tether cable itself.

Yeah and I want to be able to change water into beer.

The question is, what do you do, yourself, to attain those 'wants'.

Have you researched any skeptical sites that offer explanations for the optical effect? Or googled 'STS-75' and my name, for example?

Or do you demand on one-on-one tutorial?



[edit on 26-10-2009 by JimOberg]