The Declaration of Independence 2009

reply to post by projectvxn


Hey Projectvxn,

I can tell you this in all honesty.

I do commend you effort to do something for you live country and fellow man.

And just to let you know I guarantee you that this argument and bickering and name calling is the same exact same thing that happened in that secret meeting between the forefathers when they were framing the Declaration of Independence.

My favorite quote from Ben Frank My most favorite person of that time is "freedom is people pulling against each other, working together is tyranny."

Don't give up just be smart about how you do things, we are up against the most tyrannical and intelligent entity known to man.....ourselves.

TA!! Izzy

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by Izarith
Even if you get all the people from a whole state to go along with you once their water goes out and they have to poop in the back yard let alone they can't buy food at wall mart you numbers will be significantly reduces if you don't bail yourself.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

How do you get the waters stop flowing and pooping in the yard from sovereign States?

I don't think anyone here will be able to make you understand what this declaration means, represents, the gravity of the situation with the current state of the union, or what is needed or could be accomplished through this.

You have not been able to present any argument or evidence for keeping things the way they are, or how they can realistically be changed for the better.

One word......credit.

I want you to take the time and play out just what would happen if your state decided to go on it's own.

reply to post by Izarith


Well you've been lying to yourself. Just because you believe something doesn't make it so. I'm a fact oriented kind of guy. I'm not a US citizen, but in order to become one I'm required to know as much American history and law as possible. I also go out of my way to understand the constitution and how it applies to my life because it is my duty as an American to one day have to defend those rights, and I will do so gladly. I will have my critics, and that is ok with me, I've been a controversial person all my life, I can take the heat. I'm certain most people would disagree with your characterization of the founding fathers, and most would disagree about your characterization of my intention.

reply to post by Izarith


Oh I'm certain of it. The Debates that lead up to what we hold dear today were vicious, and there were even a few deadly duels. We don't all have to agree. But I'm fairly certain we all want to be free. Listen man, snide comment are a human part of debate. I don't know you, so it isn't personal. I am enjoying this, I wouldn't do it if I didn't.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

reply to post by projectvxn


This is excellent, perhaps it could be adapted for global society?

As a citizen of the UK as opposed to the US I would love to sign it

/Sign

reply to post by projectvxn


Well for a controversial person you sure get a lot of one sided follower lol.

Oh and let me get this strait you are learning about America from the government? have you read the part were they all spread angel wings and fly to hell to kick the devils butt? I love that part.

If you want to be of use to freedom I don't care where your from or what country your trying to become a part of, you need to think things through play it out and for god sake don't listen to people telling you "WOW great job little Timmy" instead try to figure out what the jackass that wont shut up is trying to say. You wont get any useful info from "stared and flagged!!" same point of view.

Broaden your mind, even if it's from a 12 year old ideot like me.

reply to post by Ginge


Make your own version based on this one and spread it around Great Britain.
At the point your government is absolutely destructive to your freedom and prosperity, they're already getting started with banning people they find offensive...You don't fight idiocy and hate by banning it, but by confronting it with intellect and compassion until it is rendered irrelevant.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

reply to post by projectvxn
Maybe this would help the "Doubters" see the path needed...

Magna Carta
en.wikipedia.org...

Magna Carta, also called Magna Carta Libertatum (the Great Charter of Freedoms), is an English legal charter, originally issued in the year 1215. It was written in Latin; its name is usually translated into English as Great Charter.

Magna Carta required King John of England to proclaim certain rights (pertaining to nobles and barons), respect certain legal procedures, and accept that his will could be bound by the law. It explicitly protected certain rights of the King's subjects, whether free or fettered — and implicitly supported what became the writ of habeas corpus, allowing appeal against unlawful imprisonment.

Magna Carta was arguably the most significant early influence on the extensive historical process that led to the rule of constitutional law today in the English speaking world. Magna Carta influenced the development of the common law and many constitutional documents, including the United States Constitution.[1] Many clauses were renewed throughout the Middle Ages, and continued to be renewed as late as the 18th century. By the second half of the 19th century, however, most clauses in their original form had been repealed from English law.

Magna Carta was the first document forced onto an English King by a group of his subjects (the barons) in an attempt to limit his powers by law and protect their privileges. It was preceded by the 1100 Charter of Liberties in which King Henry I voluntarily stated what his own powers were under the law.

[edit on 6/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Izarith


What if a state decided to go on its own? Well, considering this isn't just a single state movement and many from multiple states have signed, it would be little to no chance of an entire state singling itself out to leave on the basis of this Declaration.

However, what will happen if played right is that people who were once the ones that handed away freedoms so willingly, are not going to see the truth and face the music. They are going to awaken to the truth about the government and exactly what has brought us to the point.

If this accomplishes nothing at all besides waking more people up to the truth, then it, to me has served a greater purpose than most things could hope to. However, the great thing about this is that it has the ability to go even further. It has the ability to rally people behind it, and be it enough, instill a little dose of fear into the government - something they have not felt for quite some time.

And as I said before, when that time comes the government is going to have the same choice that the British Crown had. They can listen to the people and grant us our freedoms back, or they will declare war on us.

Should the government declare war on a group of American citizens, no matter the spin on it, the truth will get out... and before you know it those who had no intentions of doing anything will be awake... and a movement will have begin.



Your theory of sitting around and saying that we are screwed and can do nothing is flawed to say the least. We can do something about it...

... and I along with many other are willing to die if need be in the process.



Let's see where this goes first, shall we?

For the "Doubters"...Do some real research and open thy eyes...

This is not the first time in history such "Ideals" have been "Flouted"

Charter of Liberties
en.wikipedia.org...

The Charter of Liberties, also called the Coronation Charter, was a written proclamation by Henry I of England, issued upon his ascension to the throne in 1100. It sought to bind the King to certain laws regarding the treatment of church officials and nobles. It is considered a landmark .1] in English legal history and a forerunner of Magna Carta.

Charter of Liberties of King Henry I
A.D. 1100
also known as the Coronation Charter
www.nhinet.org...

Maybe "2009 Charter of Liberties" would be more appropriate ?

[edit on 6/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by gwydionblack


Tell me is the first time you have thought this out? I'm not making a remark abut the post I'm just curious if you have taken this this far in your mind.

This is the first time taking this notion as far as you have, this is a hypothetical theory on what would happen if people started making many new declaration on Independence's.

To start off I say many versions because many people would make their own version because the population in general lacks the secrecy and the congress of people to vote on just one.

So....Many people start making Declarations of Independence. Most are ridiculed or given the "good job little Timmy" routine till they end up in the trash. This is due to a variety of grammatical issues and general lack of "sex appeal".

The ones that do make it into the light are scholarly ones created on the behest of banks who can out power grass root causes and also make their version seem like grassroots causes.

So States run by key placed people are on cue to accept and give a good show about "Declaring Independence" by showing up on the John Stewart show and getting applauded by the whole world on YouTube but actually accomplishing nothing.

What this does is desensitises the population to changes of documents that give us the few rights we think we still have and opens the door for an entirely new constitution made by the current people running the show now.

They do it by pinning the left against the right, the left for the change and the right against but with a couple ideas for some radical amendments. There is no way at this time they can legally change the constitution but all you need is an economic catastrofy that plummets the people into starvation.

This hunger will bring revolution on it's own and with a couple of payed mercenaries to attack and target heavily populated places with mostly elderly people and women and children the revolutionaries will be viewed by the majority as home grown bad guys.

This is where the change to the constitution can take place. When the majority of the people are on their knees and begging government to make it better because they had it so much better when they ran the show the new way of life can be put into place. Any one who opposes the new rule will not be able to provide the security and food the people are demanding but the new laws are guaranteed to do it.

The rest is a history of freedom safety as what ever they want it to be. Our children will grow up believing that the world they live in is free.

Just like many do today.

TA!! Izzy

reply to post by Izarith
You "Sir" are a "Tough Case"...

In all of you ranting you take the time to point out what YOU believe to be "flaws" in this thinking...but offer no real "alternatives"...

How about using a "New Declaration of Independence" addressing "Usurping of Power" and revert to the Original Bill of Rights, (Nothing beyond the original 10, (as the 13th on up are really convoluted) and/or the Magna Carta ?

How much "forward thinking" have you done when "spouting" this "dribble" ?

reply to post by Izarith


I'm sorry, but you are a fool.

You are probably the biggest pessimist and a good reason why people today who do actually wake up, feel absolutely powerless to stop this cycle that has raging for centuries.

If you want to believe that you are powerless and if you want to wait until people are on their knees to try to make a difference, that is YOUR peroggative, but don't come around here spreading your completely nihialist attitude to all the people who hope for some kind of change so that we don't have to bring our children up in a society where war is raging at our front door.

You can believe what you want, but I have all the complete confidence that it would be a cold day in help before any of the signers of this document "come crawling back to government" asking for freedoms we never had.



This government is over. Whether by the hand of the people or the crushing blow of the economy or nature. This hand is over I assure you.

crazy how different the times are eh?

reply to post by Izarith


Sorry for not answering your question in my former post, your following words just drew my attention enough to distract me.

You ask how far and how often I have thought this out?

Well, usually when I wake up at about 5:30 every morning, til the time around midnight or so when I go to bed, I'd have to say that most of my time, when not dedicated to work or relationships, is dedicated to the cause.

If you would like to take a look at some of my former posts in other topics, feel free to. I'm sure they would give you a more accurate description of what I can about how much I've "thought this out".

I can only speak for myself in this situation, but I believe many others that post on these forums, people like SGTChas, dooper, nenothtu, and projectvxn, HAVE ALL thought about about this situation long and hard - to name a VERY select few.

Do not come in here with the belief that we have just awoken yesterday and that all of a sudden we've decided to make a "worthless" attempt in your eyes.

You couldn't be farther from the truth.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by gwydionblack]

[edit on 3-6-2009 by gwydionblack]

And I'm sorry to Question, but I disobeyed your request on the youtube video, simply because I needed something to do. Do not let this stop your creation as I am sure it will be much more appealing to the masses. Mine can simply be aforementioned as a placeholder for now.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
reply to post by Izarith

 

You "Sir" are a "Tough Case"...

In all of you ranting you take the time to point out what YOU believe to be "flaws" in this thinking...but offer no real "alternatives"...

How about using a "New Declaration of Independence" addressing "Usurping of Power" and revert to the Original Bill of Rights, (Nothing beyond the original 10, (as the 13th on up are really convoluted) and/or the Magna Carta ?

How much "forward thinking" have you done when "spouting" this "dribble" ?

I was reading this thread from start to finish but I'm back now.

I have given the alternative!!

Do what our Declaration of Independence says demand that the constitution be respected to it's fullest!!

Is that so hard to understand?

Oh but it's much more fun to watch little kids get burned alive on the news like the wacko deal right?

He, he those religious nuts had it coming did they not. Why did they have all those guns anyway.

Where were you when that happened? Where were the riots in the street? where were the people demanding that the person responsible be held accountable? But god rain down on Clinton for getting a blow right.

That is the world you live in.

Look i know you guys really want your country back So do I. But you all ready have every tool you need to do that. I'm just saying you should use them. Not make new ones that wont hold watter because your just playing right into their hand.

reply to post by Izarith
OK...then I ~guess~ we're on the same side???

Hmmm...*I think* the original Bill of Rights, after a "Re-Declaration" is in order...

Sorry to get off track here...just mulling implications...

Originally posted by gwydionblack
reply to post by Izarith

 

I'm sorry, but you are a fool.

You are probably the biggest pessimist and a good reason why people today who do actually wake up, feel absolutely powerless to stop this cycle that has raging for centuries.

If you want to believe that you are powerless and if you want to wait until people are on their knees to try to make a difference, that is YOUR prerogative, but don't come around here spreading your completely nihialist attitude to all the people who hope for some kind of change so that we don't have to bring our children up in a society where war is raging at our front door.

You can believe what you want, but I have all the complete confidence that it would be a cold day in help before any of the signers of this document "come crawling back to government" asking for freedoms we never had.



This government is over. Whether by the hand of the people or the crushing blow of the economy or nature. This hand is over I assure you.

You are so right.....it is over.

As long as you keep chasing your tail instead of taking back your country with the powers that so many have died to give you it is.

When you give up on your constitution and your symbol of independence that clearly tells you what must be done, you have condemned your country to death along with all the god damned work it took to make it.

But don't worry some day you can tell your children that you were deceived into doing it against your freewill.

Any true Constitutionalists knows that this is the way to the end - and that is the restoration of The Constitution pre-13th amendment. I have never heard an argument otherwise.

The Bill of Rights we have now is absolutely fine, it is just ignored.

And while you speak of what the Declaration SAYS we should do, lets not forget this little zinger they added in there just for kicks:

"But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations,
pursuing invariably the same object,
evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism,
it is their right, it is their duty,
to throw off such government, and
to provide new guards for their future security."