The 10 punches that Dick Cheney landed on Barack Obama's jaw

To me this is the big one. It's one thing to say torture is bad, but what if those interrogation techniques can be proved to have saved thousands of American lives? Would that be worth it? Release the full account, then let the American people decide.

It does seem kind of dubious that that the new Administration won't share the successful results of the previous Administration's attempts to protect us. I would think that they would be releasing that kind of info if it were to show that the waterboarding was not effective in preventing further terror attacks. That they aren't releasing such info, that makes me think that the Bush Administration did prevent some attacks with info gained from the high pressure interrogation techniques.

So, do the ends justify the means if it saved thousands of lives? It seems some here would rather we not get the info and let more innocent Americans die in another terror attack.

reply to post by RRconservative

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Perhaps you should re-read the OP's post. In this case, Obama was going to release everything. After reading the material, he reached(rightly, I think) to only release about half of the information. In other words, once you got the office, the info, and the responsibilty, you realize you can't do everything you want to. Even if you think you are King of The World.

reply to post by truthquest

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You nailed it on the head here. 9-11 was the greatest failure of U.S. security in the history of our nation, and it should never have succeeded. The GW admin, including Cheney, are fully responsible, and their failure to take any action to prevent what they were warned to prepare for is inexcusable.

No, the GW admin has not kept our nation safe, they have let it go to hell in a handbasket.

Our borders have been over ran, and the world has lost confidence in us. The fact that conservatives refuse to admit their failures is truly sad.

mikerussellus posted on 26-5-2009 @ 10:07 AM

wow
I didn't know you couldn't express your own opinion on this site.
Could you please let us all know how to think. I'm going to sit in my living room and drool until someone tells me what to do. . .

Glad you missed the point smart guy but I realize now 99% of you here want to play games and screw around with outlandish bull#, my point is it’s a joke, a fabrication, a novelty gag, This site claims to discuss the going on in the world and the unexplained but all the site does is produce misleading stories and allows people to print bull# or copy righted fiction. This site as I thought it to be is a think tank to unearth or discover some truth and answers, I see now we will never have any and can only speculate, I guess if running in circles with your head cut off is fun for you, then this is fine and I guess you eat it right up. If you want the real truth I guess were stuck with mainstream media, it’s proving to be more truthful than ATS. At one time this was an awesome site now it’s nothing but a than a pissing contest to see who can get the most votes.

And yes I corrected your grammar.

This is really becoming unbelievable to me. People are still bickering over who's the best president ever...Bush or Obama?

We have people who like Bush pointing to Obama saying how he's destroyed this country. They ignore that he's only been in office for about 4 months and that everything that is wrong with this country right now, less security, far less rights, horrible economy as a result of greedy SOB'S, etc, etc, happened on Bush's watch. They keep acting like all of this is Obama's fault and I absolutely fail to see the logic.

Then we have people who like Obama saying how he's such a wonderful guy and look at the amazing things he has done and will do. They ignore the fact that he, so far, has done a complete 180 on everything he SAID he would do. He's not going to end this war, he's trying to take the citizens only protection against a tyrannical government away, he voting for the FISA bill (which was equivalent to the gov't wiping it's behind after a nice sit down on the toilet with our Constitution), he's not going to close down Guantanamo (and if he does the 'terrorists' are just going to go to a different location with the same problems), and he's blatantly said many times he's all for the New World Order.

Aside from all that, everyone still believes they are on opposite sides, when they clearly aren't.

I'm sorry, but people here on ATS are supposed to be above all of this. So we have this thread started by the OP saying what a wonderful person Dick Cheney is and Obama just got beat down (in so many words). It's all just another thread that is a back and forth of whose party is better and who's is responsible for the coming collapse of America as we know it.

I'm really in awe that we here at ATS are still riding this bandwagon. Neither Obama, nor Cheney are patriots and most likely not a single president anytime after will be either. We should be discussing how to get our country back, not who's responsible for the state it is already in because it really doesn't matter.

reply to post by RRconservative

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I read them. He says in no. 10 that " * * * on our watch, they never hit this country again".

The real question is "Did they hit our country in the first place?"

His comments assume that "they" (the incompetent Islamic terrorists) hit our country on 911. But that's an open question and will remain so until there is an honest investigaion by an investigative body that doesn't begin its work burdened with a predetermined conclusion and agenda tasked with finding facts to support the desired outcome and ignore everything else!

[edit on 5/27/2009 by dubiousone]

The only punches Cheney landed were in his dreams as he lay in a pool of his own blood on the mat, muttering coulda, shoulds, woulda.

The whole, if they only new the whole truth, line of BS especially doesn't hold water in this situation. The only time Cheney has seemed to change is recently, when it began to dawn on him that he might be held responsible for his crimes.

reply to post by poet1b

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Everyone wants to blame Bush for 911. Forget it. Clinton had the same intel and refused to act on it. A sniper had bin Laden in his sites, but Clinton wouldn't give the order to carry it out. I guess he was to busy with the interns to worry about national security. Want blame some one? Place it where it belongs. Right on Clinton's back.

That Cheney is self-serving no one disputes. Whoever is at fault for 9/11 not being anticipated, even the worst bastards in office would be concerned for national security and the safety of Americans on their own soil afterward. They would be at equal risk given the successful targeting of even the Pentagon.

So we now unravel history. Who made the right and wrong decisions, when and why. Ironically Cheney will be outed for something he may have felt was essentially right. If he's stung we get him on a technicality.


Bush and Cheney received votes from tens of millions of Americans in not one but two elections. Let's not forget that. We saw disastrously bad management in their years in office. Stringing up Dick Cheney may be cathartic but it won't undo the what was done by America's top elected officials.


Mike

reply to post by kettlebellysmith

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Really? That is a first for me. Exactly why should Clinton have given the order to have Bin Laden assassinated at this time in history before he had ever been accused of carrying out 9-11, let alone convicted of any crimes?

Do you think U.S. Presidents should be given the power of life and death over anyone on the planet they deem to be enemies of the state?

You might want to re-think this one.

Irregardless of whether or not Clinton chose not to have Bin Laden whacked, it doesn't change the fact that Bush/Cheny were in charge, and had been in charge for an adequate amount of time, to be held responsible for the security of our nation.

It is disheartening to hear my fellow Americans so proudly defending their so obviously crooked leaders, for you to refer to Dick Cheney as a "patriot" is, in my mind just as absurd as referring to Obama as the "messiah". It is absolutely sickening to observe the majority of this country being duped year after year into voting for candidates that quite clearly don't have any of our interests at heart(see lpowell0627's post on the 4th page, SPOT ON).

You people are voluntarily partaking in this "game" that has been dividing our country and keeping the wealthy 2% with agendas in control of OUR country, congratulations, now continue beating your head into the wall while wondering where this horrible pain is coming from.

[edit on 5/26/2009 by JKersteJr]

What punches?


Since 9-11 was a hoax and done by the US government, the whole logic behind what Cheney said, is twisted and lies.

Who still believes Cheney?

I COULDN'T AGREE MORE..Finally someone here has said something intelligent...Until people realize there is NO REPUBLICAN PARTY and there is NO DEMOCRAT PARTY..and that there is only the right and left of the ILLUMINATI PARTY..and everything in their life is ONE GIANT HOAX we will never get our country back! It's like talking to brain dead children!

This thread is a perfect example of absolute ignorance of the greater picture that dictates every facet of our life.

Peoples inability to decipher the greater picture and base their opinion off that, are ultimately the people who are aiding these criminals in their deception. Feverishly arguing non-issues and blatantly fraudulent issues.


I pity you folks.

I'm glad you said that. It sums up what I think when I read most ofthe messages around here.

Bush and Cheney were bad elected officials. Picking away the scabs of their many misjudgements and outright abuses of privilege only deflects from how the fallout should be dealt with.


Mike

Much like my 65 year old father, he just sounds like a frightened old man.

line #2, but I think line #1 said a whole lot.

So the OP says that Dick Cheney is a patriot,why?
the OP does not say, but demands everyone else to
comment on Dick Cheney's words,that's a bit cheeky
and lazy to boot.
Mr Cheney is obviously in favour of torture camps,
so was old Adolf,but then that was bad politics
but it's alright for an already powerful country
to do it nowadays,isn't it? so now good politics,
makes you wonder what WW2 was all about,
so much for never never again!

Cheney said some things. The thread was opened to discuss what he said.
The chosen focus was not his life story, his character, his philosophy, the nature of patriotism.

We're not here to discuss the evil of Dick Cheney.

Honest people sometimes lie. Liars sometimes tell the truth.

Cheney may believe what he has said. Maybe it is an attempt only to justify his actions. Some of his points may even have merit.

Even charged criminals are allowed to provide their accounts of their actions and rationale.

This is sounding like a lynch mob discussion more than a hearing.


Mike

here goes my 2 cents:

I was just reading the many pages of this thread and I had to say something. While we are all entitled to our views, we all need to understand that we all see the world differently. What some fail to understand that as the OP supports VP Cheney and posts his reasons why, there is no need to attack him personally. I been a member here a looong time and there seemed to be a time when intelligent conversations were made and replies where to debate a topic without angry sediments. i see that a lot of that here these days.

back to the topic tho...(as some mentioned already) as us Americans argue over administrations, the real harm is being done by us. Regardless of who put us in the crapper we have been in the last century, it seems, we need to look at ourselves. Instead of arguing about who is to blame, we need to stand up and take our country back. Not with a gun either. We need to educate ourselves more on how the system really works and use it to our advantage as did the PTB. Fighting over parties, administrations, presidents, VP's, Torture....this means nothing if you sit in front of your monitors complaining about what Cheney did or didn't do, and the same for Obama. Lets stop hoping the other party fails and start uniting for equality and peace. There's a bigger picture out there (as most of our brothers and sisters across the oceans have been telling us) Us Americans sometimes are so worried about being right, we can't see what is really going on in front of us.

Really?


www.msnbc.msn.com...


This is well after the African embassy bombings in 1998 and right around the time of the Cole attack in Yemen. Bin Laden was already named as a unindicted co-conspirator in the 93 WTC bombing as well. We had enough reason to pull the trigger on that man.