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Remnants of the Illuminati

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posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


Maybe it was Lilith... They had a long segment on Lilith immediately prior to the Joseph wife segment. Plus I was tired so they sort of ran together.




posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by oconnection
reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


Ok my memory serves me right, this might of been a more private U2U. So this is a common theme in secret societies that there is some sort of council of Enlightened Ones, I was aware the Great White Brotherhood had a sort of council of Enlightened Ones. I wasn't aware it was public knowledge.

So I guess it could be assumed that this individual could of gathered this information publicly? I guess it caught me off guard to hear it in public film.

Fishing in the dark, looking in the dark, so it seems.


It seems to me we're talking apples and oranges -

I got the impression the Ancient Ones Maban referred to were the original creators - and as part of creation we have within that what's been called Great White Brotherhood, Enlightened Ones, etc. At least that's my understanding.

Re Deagle - I've followed him for a while and was turned off by his previous religious references, but after listening to his Camelot interview it makes me understand he's trying to get us to reference our spirituality 'within' and leave religion (real lies going on as he calls it).

Again - the greater secret is who we really are - and get past this physical crap -



posted on Jul, 1 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by oconnection
reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


Ok my memory serves me right, this might of been a more private U2U. So this is a common theme in secret societies that there is some sort of council of Enlightened Ones, I was aware the Great White Brotherhood had a sort of council of Enlightened Ones. I wasn't aware it was public knowledge.


Are you a member of the GWB? If not then I'm surprised you'd know if it weren't available publicly or are you saying someone passed this along in private discussion? spannera on the Shards thread gave a reference to a book that mentioned the GWB and a council of seven ascended masters (reminding me of those elders in Appleseed who consult Gaia). It's there somewhere near the last 10% of thread.


Originally posted by oconnection
So I guess it could be assumed that this individual could of gathered this information publicly? I guess it caught me off guard to hear it in public film.

Fishing in the dark, looking in the dark, so it seems.


If you read enough books by authors like Manly P. Hall, C.W. Leadbeater, Walter Atkinson, Blavatsky and a zillion others then sure, you'll have plenty of inspirational material. It's all readily available.

Of course Maban framed it into a technophilic, materialist world, integrating modern themes from video games and anime rather than taking the usual "New Age-ish" (as it might be commonly understood) approach of dimensions, densities, energies and vibrations.

Earlier I made the association with 24 year old Tenzin Osel because were I to find out that in fact that was who was behind this thread, let me say that my mind would not exactly be blown. Such an individual would have the necessary background. Were it true, he may wish to communicate a message anonymously so that his title would not cause people to flock to the thread for that reason alone.

As much as I try to look at it in other contexts, the Buddhist one is the most convincing. Not because Maban states that Shards prefer Buddhism as a philosophical grounding, but because it just has that feel, pervasively.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by EnlightenUp
He did in fact state in U2U's that they have indeed had contact with the Enlightened Ones, possibly multiple contacts if I understood him correctly. He was reticent about sharing much detail on the appearance or other attributes of the Enlightened One on the grounds that this contact would be seen as "doing too much". I asked why it would be seen that way and he said it would be viewed as essentially calling for mommy instead of being able to handle competently one's own affairs. I am not certain about who's opinion he meant the Shards really cared.

Somewhere he mentioned his group had the Enlightened Ones blessing which to me implies the likelyhood of some sort of contact. According to Maban in U2U, it's not likely the Shards initiated the contact when he said that they had a means of contact that they did not know how to use.


Too confusing!

This is where I tend to drift off a little, I'm not too attentive to vaguaries. My assumption though were incorrect. I got the wrong end of the stick, perhaps what Maban was saying was that they hadn't had physical contact. I am sure this was a conversation that took place in thread, so I have no insight beyond what was said there and I'm not reading the damn thread again...but I am almost sure he said he hadn't met the Enlightened Ones...but I could be wrong, again.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by EnlightenUp
No you did not. I found this post by spannera.

Was there more?


Probably not. My mind is failing me and merging everything into one big pile of goo, I can barely tell any of you, this or anything apart, everything is beginning to look strangely the same. Damn repeats.

I need a holiday or twelve. Preferably somewhere cold.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


Maybe it was Lilith... They had a long segment on Lilith immediately prior to the Joseph wife segment. Plus I was tired so they sort of ran together.


EnlightenUp correctly identified the post I was refering to and it said absolutely nothing about bees whatsoever. Sorry for the confusion.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Are you a member of the GWB?

No I am not, if I knew the answers, I wouldn't be asking for them here.

The idea of the GWB has been mentioned in many books I've read. To prove they exist would be very difficult because they are not brought together most of the time physically but though spiritual communication or ascension . If you want my take on it, I believe they exist because I've seen things that would have me conclude they do indeed exist.



Earlier I made the association with 24 year old Tenzin Osel because were I to find out that in fact that was who was behind this thread, let me say that my mind would not exactly be blown.


I've done my own research, I've come to the same conclusion. I in fact am pretty sure who this individual is. Emsed has done some research of his own and I agree with his findings.

Which makes me wonder why Emsed has been so quite lately, you ok bud?



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Too confusing!

This is where I tend to drift off a little, I'm not too attentive to vaguaries. My assumption though were incorrect. I got the wrong end of the stick, perhaps what Maban was saying was that they hadn't had physical contact. I am sure this was a conversation that took place in thread, so I have no insight beyond what was said there and I'm not reading the damn thread again...but I am almost sure he said he hadn't met the Enlightened Ones...but I could be wrong, again.


My apologies, I guess you can say I've been reading too many books that speak in riddles and vagueness, I'm not trying to be secretive.


I poke my head through the Shards thread all the time, it's like when you re read a good book, you see things from a different angle, in a different light.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by oconnection
No I am not [a member of the GWB], if I knew the answers, I wouldn't be asking for them here.


The wording, implying that you acquired that knowledge in a non-public manner (not a book, forums or other media), so I wondered.


If you want my take on it, I believe they exist because I've seen things that would have me conclude they do indeed exist.


Personal experience? I am curious what they would be if you wouldn't mind sharing. My general M.O. is outlined below in case you would rather it not be disclosed publicly.


I've done my own research, I've come to the same conclusion. I in fact am pretty sure who this individual is [Tenzin Osel]. Emsed has done some research of his own and I agree with his findings.


Hmmm. Good to know I'm not alone. Honestly, if I knew it for certain, I would keep that confidential since that is personal information. My wild speculations however, I feel free to blurt. If I am given permission, I feel free to share.

If he's afraid of fauning masses, I assure I wouldn't be one of those. I would enjoy just a bare bones, person to person interaction, no buffers. The ball is in his court.

If I knew that person existed before the thread about him was created, I probably would have said something far sooner, like, around last fall but I would have approached him first while he wasn't ignoring me during like during his second stint.


Which makes me wonder why Emsed has been so quite lately, you ok bud?


I know. Why is he hiding? I don't quite buy the "herding cats at work" excuse. He seemed to largely disengage after I tossed the Osel connection into the ring and he channeled Maban's super ultimate final departure.

To wit, even if emsed1 knows for sure about that, he had nothing to do with the thought.



posted on Jul, 2 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by EnlightenUp

Personal experience? I am curious what they would be if you wouldn't mind sharing. My general M.O. is outlined below in case you would rather it not be disclosed publicly.


This page gives a good over site:
en.wikipedia.org...

How I became aware of such an order, believe it or not was in a dream. There is what appeared to be a council of the wise, not all human, that over see the earth, protecting it, and help guide humanity spiritually. There are living members today but the idea is when you die you ascend to the spiritual realm and you are a guardian, who look over look and protect the world, and of course influence the spiritual path of humanity. This is what I saw in my dream so I will share with you what I saw. Sounds crazy but I believe it exists in one form or another.

From the link I provided you might think it's a recent addition but I feel it's much much older. That's all I will share for now. It was just a revelation to me at least that such an order exists. In my dream they were aware of my presence and I don't think they were happy that I had a short but insightful peering into there business.


Edit for added info:
As long as I can remember I've been more "sensitive" to spiritual presence. My mom told me when I was a child I'd be ponting to something outside the window. She said that I said "Mommy look an angel". She kept looking and could not see anything. I've seen things in dreams, visions and with own two eyes that I can only explain as peering into another dimension. I believe there is another plane that exists where these thing operate and we as humans are not just flesh and blood but rather spiritual beings.

About 3 years ago I had a rather disturbing but awe inspiring vision/dream. I was in the air looking up to the sky and I saw large craft in the air, I could look in and see what could be described as aliens. At the same time I saw a war going on between angels and demons, they had weapons that are awesome and unlike anything that I can easily describe. I also heard many screams, almost thoughts, prayers, happiness, joy, pain, suffering. Each house had different color energy, some having a mix. It was a very chaotic place and felt very overwhelmed just being there.

I woke up and found my self on floor, much glass broken in my room. To this day I believe what I saw was real but it scared the crap out of me. I haven't shared this info publicly because well I even feel like I'm crazy sometimes.


I've probably shared more information than what most people will believe or have a stomach for. =/

[edit on 2-7-2009 by oconnection]



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by oconnection
This page gives a good over site:
en.wikipedia.org...


Hmm this kind of thing is not my cup of tea, so I will keep my opinions, largely to myself.


Originally posted by oconnection
How I became aware of such an order, believe it or not was in a dream. There is what appeared to be a council of the wise, not all human, that over see the earth, protecting it, and help guide humanity spiritually.


This may be true, it seems plausible enough, I do though, consider the elitism of the GWB as described in the wikipedia article, a bit of a contradiction to what you describe from your vision. The GWB more fits the depiction of the elders in the Appleseed films. Remnants perhaps?

Have you read The Only Planet of Choice? What you describe seems more along those lines...but I don't like that bunch either, it is all a little bit too cut and paste to match Judeo-Christian norms. Too much soft peddling. And as with all these 'groups' their knowledge seems strangely limited, I expect, strangely, omniscients to have a better awareness of certain chains of events, especially if they are claiming to guide them. Perhaps I'm too picky.


Originally posted by oconnection
From the link I provided you might think it's a recent addition but I feel it's much much older. That's all I will share for now. It was just a revelation to me at least that such an order exists. In my dream they were aware of my presence and I don't think they were happy that I had a short but insightful peering into there business.


And, you'd think that if indeed they were here for the greater good that they would be pleased that someone with your abilities had found them. Wouldn't you? Espeially as you didn't seek them out. Why do they want to exclude you? Did you get any sense of that?

In the dream how did they physically react to your presence? Sorry, I'm assuming they had a 'physical'? If not, rephrase, did you feel they effected any kind of action in response to your presence?


Originally posted by oconnection
I've probably shared more information than what most people will believe or have a stomach for. =/


I think we have stronger stomaches than most in this neck of the woods


Either way thanks for sharing.



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by kshaund
Again - the greater secret is who we really are - and get past this physical crap -



Originally posted by oconnection
I believe there is another plane that exists where these thing operate and we as humans are not just flesh and blood but rather spiritual beings.


Am I alone in actually enjoying the physical crap and not seeing that as a bad thing per se? Isn't it a case of it not being a problem, but how you handle it is. I can deal with the spiritual beings thing but I do not see why that should mean a separation from our physical beings, isn't part of it about gaining and making the most of this particular experience?

Imagine (if you will..haha), that you had lived many lifetimes, on many different planets, in many different forms, but that this planet was the only one that you had a sense of taste with. Wouldn't that completely rock your boat? You've lived a thousand years but never tasted anything, chocolate, strawberries, marmite... Expand that, you have never had a physical sensation...not at all, never in a thousand years, you lived only as a spark of light, all consciousness, no feeling...and then here you are a human... Not only do you have five or six senses, but you also have hormones, emotions, require rest periods and activity. You are mortal and you bleed. Couldn't the test be what you gained from that experience, how you coped, whether it led you astray?

So what concerns me, more than anything, is the belief that the physical means nothing and that the next life will be better. It ties in pretty much with what EnlightenUp said earlier in the thread about the protestant work ethic, and, it is a recurring theme in the Judeo-christian movements. Buckle down and suffer through this life because the next one will be better.

Most of the suffering that is experienced in this world is brought about by materialism not physicalism, and there is a difference in my mind. If we ignored the material and concentrated a little more on physically experiencing life on this planet I think things would take an upturn.

I'm not sure, perhaps I'm splitting hairs, I just don't think that spiritual and physical are mutally exclusive, I think that material and spiritual though perhaps are. Semantics maybe?



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by oconnection
 


Yeah.. been super busy chasing the kids around all summer.

Also trying to finish "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" by Manly Hall. It seems like he pretty much has all the bases covered in this book. I wish I'd read it before!



posted on Jul, 3 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by oconnection
How I became aware of such an order, believe it or not was in a dream.


I know two members here say they're part of the GWB, Illahee (now Pippin) and IX-777. Neither has vouched for the other so who knows.


From the link I provided you might think it's a recent addition but I feel it's much much older.


Definitely. I think that's that common thread to everything. They are definitely not hands off and will pull punches at times in defense.


I don't think they were happy that I had a short but insightful peering into there business.


If they serve to guide us is it not our business as well?


As long as I can remember I've been more "sensitive" to spiritual presence.


Have you seen giants? If so, what did they look like?


I saw a war going on between angels and demons, they had weapons that are awesome and unlike anything that I can easily describe.


As above, so below?
That pretty much sums it all up.


I've probably shared more information than what most people will believe or have a stomach for. =/


Heh. I feel like I had an appetizer-- as Cartman said, what you eat before you eat to make you more hungry.

Thank you for sharing all that. There are plenty here that will listen. As for the naysayers, who cares?



posted on Jul, 4 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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I believe they are inter connected, I like that phrase, what is above same will be below, something like that.

That's what I got out of my experience and have known that but didn't see it on the grand scale I did that one night. It seems that what we do here on earth affects the spiritual and the spiritual affects the physical. It's just most people especially in such a materialistic world loose touch with that.

When I was growing up, my mom new I was "different" so she would take me to all sorts of doctors. They'd give me this and that, each one I hated the way I felt. It honestly felt like I lost who I was, like I couldn't even feel intuition anymore, I had not even a sense of what was around me, I felt completely numb. While that may work for some people I felt like I wasn't living and eventually stopped taking the crap.

I know today that's nothing is wrong with me and I feel blessed for seeing what I've seen. During difficult times, it has really helped me to keep going because I know for certain, in my mind that when we die, we continue on. When I was a kid I used to get scared to hell that I might not end up in the right place when I die because I didn't chose the right religion. That fear is gone for the most part but everyone has an uncertainty when you go into a largely new existence.

To comment on your response to the link I provided, I should of been a little more clear. I'm trying to describe a very strange occurrence, you find a similar difficulty at times when others share there similar events. A human being can only express so much, If one could share an experience with one another, it would be a lot easier to describe because so often seeing is believing for most people. The link I provided the foundation for the idea. If I find better material that puts into words from what I described then I'll post it. I really think it was a mix of different sources but it did provide a short history so perhaps you can see where I'm coming from.

With this council that I observed I felt some how not welcome there. I didn't felt threatened but I knew somehow I ended up where I didn't belong. This was a combination with what I felt and what I saw. When I first arrived every member stood up, noticed my appearance, acted surprised almost. This language, most of it sounded like gibberish to me, I couldn't speak there language, but I did feel like there were things being communicated to be almost telepathically. Sadly I felt like I was tapping into something, somehow when I wasn't ready for it. If I was summoned I feel they would of communicated that to me. I wonder if that happens often and they saw me as just another pest?

I don't have "out of the body" experiences often, more of my experiences occur everyday. A lot of is intuition, or sensing a person's intent, feeling an energy so to speak resonating off that person. I don't mean to come off as bragging but my "gut feeling" has always been faithful to me when it comes to people, especially when I see them face to face.

I'll give you an example, I was at Barns and Noble, looking for books and walked up to the section where a lot of New Age books and occult books were placed, there were these two ladies standing there, reading. They both looked at me the same time, they stared into my eyes, I looked right back, I could feel this enormous warmth, an energy that tingled all over. One of these ladies literally ran out of the store. I'm not sure what I did, maybe she saw something that freaked here out, in me. Maybe she could sense I was reading off of them and she was ashamed of something. I won't be quick to judge.

But I've had random people walk up to me and tell all sorts of crazy stuff, like they knew me somehow and I know I've never met them but somehow, at times felt like I knew them, somehow. Somethings I'll never be able to explain.

Other experiences, while they've become more rare (sadly) has been in dreams, vision, and at times I can see things manifest before my eyes. I believe this where we get the shape shifting idea from, the whole reptilian ordeal, I believe people are peering into that dimension so to speak and sometimes it looks clear as day.

As far as giants go EU, the only giants I saw were giant angels and demons, some aren't giant. I did come across some really huge beings or a concentration of light, it was aware, engulfed you with the sweetest presence, I felt completely at peace. This occurred to me when I almost died when I was 8, I was in a bad car accident.

That's all I can remember for now. Strangely I've been remembering past dreams lately like they were blocked out somehow. I'll let you know If I remember anything meaningful.




- Omega

[edit on 4-7-2009 by oconnection]



posted on Jul, 4 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


I read that about five years ago. Retention is a real problem when it comes to reading a book like that.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


I personally believe the root of all the pain and suffering in the planet is from intentional manipulation - there is NO reason for ANY person on the planet to be hungry or without a bed, yet millions experience this daily, many dying from starvation. There is NO reason for wars and gang violence except that it is not just allowed, but in actuality cultivated intentionally. This is not just so we can experience "x, y, z". That is the lie being fed to us to justify the atrocities and obvious lack of any respect for life in all its forms.

We are a shell housing a spirit/soul (whatever one calls it) simply existing here in the physical - like an analogy I heard before we are like a balloon and killing seen as no more significant to them as popping a balloon is to us.

For whatever reason (and that is my real point in trying to become enlightened (knowledgeable)) we are here in this ridiculous life of master/slave - and "what if" that is able to be manipulated beyond death (the balloon pops) --- "what if" they (the manipulators - reptiles, illuminati, satan, whatever anyone calls it, but it is most definitely real what is being done to us) can recapture that essence and send it back over and over and over again to operate one of these vessels (bodies) so they can use its energy to control, torture, cause fear in, etc. to feed unseen energies that rely on THAT for its source of existance....

What if?

Would you want to know?

Would you be satisfied believing you've had thousands of lives without taste and now you have and not give much thought to your next passage?

To me that's all part of the Great Lie and what I've spent 40+ years trying to figure out - Why we're REALLY here. How can we REALLY exercise freedom at death. Because at this point (past ten or so years), I've come to believe we are recycled (directed) and not reincarnated (choice). And to me, that is my PRIME concern in my existance - reclaiming real freedom to exist anywhere in existance and not have to be mind-swiped here over and over again so that we're like kidnapped and brainwashed to believing otherwise.

And just to tie that into the Shards of the Illuminati - either Maban was lied to or he is lying and that just provides another layer of crap to filter through. Maybe there really is NOTHING and NO ONE above and beyond who cares one iota about us (because in my opinion, this type of slavery simply shouldn't be allowed to exist).... but that's me....

The Illuminati has existed for thousands if not millions of years here and elsewhere - just have either been in a different part of history (like pharoahs) or our history doesn't even have anything about them for periods of time. Prime example of the meek not inheriting anything - just being run over by the dominants and greedy throughout all our known history.

So Divine Intervention? Bring it on! We've been lied to since before birth and yet "we're" the ones who are supposed to be responsible for "creating this" and therefore "it's our responsibility not just that it's here in the first place, but also if we """fail""" to change it, that's on us, NOT THE PERPETRATORS". See how they (religions, belief systems, new agers, etc.) always make it not just "our fault" but also "our responsibility" to change it when changing it (on this plane) isn't even possible!!!! There's the Lie in a nutshell.

I'm NOT responsible for any of this planet's sufferings! The Illuminati/Reptiles, whoever they ultimately are are the ones responsible! And if we don't become enlightened with knowledge now, we are doomed to be their slave again and again because the worst I can see is they behold our souls through technology and unless we learn now, we just keep following what's put before us as has been done before.

I absolutely enjoy many things about they physical world! What I can't reconcile is the atrocities allowed again and again and again and justified over and over and over - Morgellons, H1N1, Gangs/Mafia, nuclear war, Guatanamo, etc. etc. etc. Yep, I surely do try and enjoy every moment because you just never know when it'll be your last.



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by oconnection
 


A thought on the 'council' you met in your dream - there are posters on ATS who have described out of body experiences (some can do it regularly) and have also described meeting others who were 'not pleased' to see them or said 'you're not supposed to be here' type things -

And a few have also said they were unable to travel as far as they wanted - they were turned back, not allowed to leave the solar system so to speak.

And I say,


We have no idea who we are meeting 'out there'. There are psychopaths among us who joyfully lie to our faces giving us 'false' feelings of comfort and safety - why shouldn't they?

Enlightened Ones, Ancient Ones, Great White Brotherhood, Ashtar Command, Hatonn & Sananda... the list of 'characters' goes on and on and simply changes over history. How do we have any clue who is telling the truth? Probably our best bet is to take the word of those who got killed for speaking dare anyone really find out the power of our divine selves sans a body and physical senses dominating our existance.

I think they can manipulate our thoughts, our dreams, our out of body experiences and even capture our souls to keep for whatever. So who do we believe??? Damn if I know - but that's why I spent some time to ask Maban some questions in U2U's that weren't altogether satisfactory and has lead me to believe, more than not, that either he was lied to or he was making it up as he went (and I believe the latter the most plausible).

I also expect he is alive and well and reading this thread although for all his "commitment" he simply decided it was too much effort to connect to this thread again after all the previous shenanigans - another big clue as to whether he was real or not (real as in who he said he was).



posted on Jul, 5 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by kshaund
I'm NOT responsible for any of this planet's sufferings! The Illuminati/Reptiles, whoever they ultimately are are the ones responsible! And if we don't become enlightened with knowledge now, we are doomed to be their slave again and again because the worst I can see is they behold our souls through technology and unless we learn now, we just keep following what's put before us as has been done before.

I absolutely enjoy many things about they physical world! What I can't reconcile is the atrocities allowed again and again and again and justified over and over and over - Morgellons, H1N1, Gangs/Mafia, nuclear war, Guatanamo, etc. etc. etc. Yep, I surely do try and enjoy every moment because you just never know when it'll be your last.


Ah this reminds me of a famous quote, "All evil needs to triumph is for good men to nothing." It can be argued you may have been misled to think we are powerless to do anything. I will agree there is a huge conflict going on, it's a daily struggle, and it never ceases. For many, without the eyes to see, it will appear we've lost, there is no hope, but I do not feel this way.

I like to see it as we live in a dark dark world, but out in the distance I see small candles being lit, and slowly the light is cutting through the pitch black darkness.

You see, this is the trap we often fall into. I hear so often either in words, attitudes, or intuition that they believe that they are just one little person and can't do anything to affect the outcome of the evil they see around them. What they fail to see is either they could just add to the darkness or they can become a ever so faint candle, some candles are brighter than others. If you picture this in terms of purely light and dark, it's easier to see the point I'm making.

I believe the reason why we don't have a NWO is because of two reasons, good people standing in there way, and the fact that there is a inner conflict going on, they've been sent in disarray. Just my feeling on it.

So remember, are you going to add to the darkness or are you going to be a light in this dark world?



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by kshaund
I personally believe the root of all the pain and suffering in the planet is from intentional manipulation - there is NO reason for ANY person on the planet to be hungry or without a bed, yet millions experience this daily, many dying from starvation.


There is no shortage of food and water, there is more than enough to go around, some though are taking more than their fair share. We, in the West, pay more for our food (packaging, transportation, store frontage, marketing etc), what we eat and the way in which we eat it provides more jobs, which means we pay all those wages. Every single person in that chain, all the way from producer to consumer contributes to this system. We can't opt out entirely, perhaps, but we can start to. The system of manipulation that you are talking about is consumerism, by using your power as a consumer you can make a difference, by using your voice to encourage others to the same, you can make a difference and so on and so forth. Ask yourself what products you buy, who do you bank with, what shares do you own, who do you work for, where do you get your utilities from. Take it down to everything and realise just how much you spend keeping this manipulation alive. Every single one of the corporations that currently have an inordinate amount of influence in politics etc, we can live without, not one of them is in anyway essential for us, as a species, to exist. They though can't exist without us. It is not symbiosis, it is parasitism, and we consent to it.


Originally posted by kshaund
There is NO reason for wars and gang violence except that it is not just allowed, but in actuality cultivated intentionally. This is not just so we can experience "x, y, z". That is the lie being fed to us to justify the atrocities and obvious lack of any respect for life in all its forms.


That is the lie fed to us to stop us from taking the power that we hold and wielding it. There is plenty of soma, doesn't mean we have to swallow it. Have you read Brave New World?


Originally posted by kshaund
We are a shell housing a spirit/soul (whatever one calls it) simply existing here in the physical - like an analogy I heard before we are like a balloon and killing seen as no more significant to them as popping a balloon is to us.


Life is cheap on this planet, there are billions upon billions of us, we're vermin to some, it has nothing to do with body and soul, just statistics.


Originally posted by kshaund
For whatever reason (and that is my real point in trying to become enlightened (knowledgeable)) we are here in this ridiculous life of master/slave


I have yet to ascertain to my complete satisfaction what this enlightenment is that everyone speaks of, there is very little real concensus on the matter, as far as I can tell, though there are a number of 'experiences' that offer a common theme. I seek to gain as much knowledge as possible but I don't know that that will enlighten me in any way. It is not a subject that I feel confident talking about and tend to listen more than anything else, on occasion something clicks and I take a note or two, beyond that it is not something that I seek.


Originally posted by kshaund
and "what if" that is able to be manipulated beyond death (the balloon pops) --- "what if" they (the manipulators - reptiles, illuminati, satan, whatever anyone calls it, but it is most definitely real what is being done to us) can recapture that essence and send it back over and over and over again to operate one of these vessels (bodies) so they can use its energy to control, torture, cause fear in, etc. to feed unseen energies that rely on THAT for its source of existance....


I have no fear of what might happen to me after death, what is the point, I might as well be scared of living, same thing. I exist in the present and look only so far ahead as I need to in order to establish my next destination. I don’t worry about the type of things that you worry about. However what you describe, it may be possible, but I would have thought it would have limitations, operationally. Either way, I don’t believe that those type of energies feed the source of existence, my belief though and a matter of debate. On reflection, they do feed the source of creation. Possibly. At times.


Originally posted by kshaund
Would you be satisfied believing you've had thousands of lives without taste and now you have and not give much thought to your next passage?


I would be satisfied, I realise others may not. But I consider it a possible, as I consider all of them possibles, no confirmation one way or another as far as I can tell, I’m not even remotely concerned about my next life (per se), I’m too busy living this one, for better or worse. Ask me again perhaps in a few years time when I’m a little further along the line. I may feel differently.

Anyway, according to the general gist of all the teachings, doctrine aside, I know that despite a few relatively minor infractions, I’m pretty much sorted so I don’t have anything to worry about it in that respect anyway. So I don’t. Ce sera sera.


Originally posted by kshaund
To me that's all part of the Great Lie and what I've spent 40+ years trying to figure out - Why we're REALLY here. How can we REALLY exercise freedom at death. Because at this point (past ten or so years), I've come to believe we are recycled (directed) and not reincarnated (choice). And to me, that is my PRIME concern in my existance - reclaiming real freedom to exist anywhere in existance and not have to be mind-swiped here over and over again so that we're like kidnapped and brainwashed to believing otherwise.


I really don’t know. Would knowing one way or another make you worry any less? Or do you think you would find a new demon to fear? I don’t want to die, but I am dying and will (in this form) cease to exist one day. There is absolutely nothing I can do to prevent that, so why worry about that eventuality, I’d only be chasing shadows, I prefer things I can get a good grip on.


Originally posted by kshaund
And just to tie that into the Shards of the Illuminati - either Maban was lied to or he is lying and that just provides another layer of crap to filter through. Maybe there really is NOTHING and NO ONE above and beyond who cares one iota about us (because in my opinion, this type of slavery simply shouldn't be allowed to exist).... but that's me....


I am not a slave. Lol, I know because my national anthem tells me so. I have free will and I exercise it. The only hindrance to my progress is myself. But then I am fortunate to have been born in Britain, to receive a good education and benefit from a conscientious parent. Others are not so fortunate, terrible destruction is being wrought on this planet, and I do worry about that, and I seek to understand that in the hope that I may come up with a solution one day, if not I will die trying. It is an absolute pisser that I have to pay taxes, but until I come up with a better system or get off my arse and run for office that is the system that is in place. I may not have access to the entire buffet but nor do I accept that the reasons for being denied that access are valid. Boundaries exist to be breached and redrawn, broken through again and again, when we it right we can stick with it, but until then, someone has to do the breaking…


Originally posted by kshaund
The Illuminati has existed for thousands if not millions of years here and elsewhere - just have either been in a different part of history (like pharoahs) or our history doesn't even have anything about them for periods of time. Prime example of the meek not inheriting anything - just being run over by the dominants and greedy throughout all our known history.


Illumination as a concept as existed for many, many, many years, terrestrially speaking, I have no frame of reference beyond that, but I personally don’t think that there is a body that has existed in a cohesive and pure form in that time, I think that any such thing would have shed it’s skin many times. You yourself refer to the relationship between knowledge and enlightenment, with knowledge you cannot remain the same, you grow, transform, become anew. The skin shed in this case would be the remnants, that part which refused to grow. In my opinion.

Look at our history, the meek are brutalised by the might and grow a new generation bred to take vengeance. The Corporations have no intention of breaking that cycle, it keeps the CEOs in million pound end of year bonuses. The change has to come from below.

What of the share holders, the little people, with a hundred or so invested, not much, but a thousand of them, ten thousand, a million…they pay for the corp to expand its investments into Darfur, Nigeria, the Congo, wherever there are new markets to be exploited. The fact that all those share holders then demand a dividend keeps the ball rolling and more shares go up for sale spreading the load of the sins being committed even further. Ignorance is no excuse in my book.

Every single cog in the machinery contributes to the motion.


Originally posted by kshaund
So Divine Intervention? Bring it on! We've been lied to since before birth and yet "we're" the ones who are supposed to be responsible for "creating this" and therefore "it's our responsibility not just that it's here in the first place, but also if we """fail""" to change it, that's on us, NOT THE PERPETRATORS". See how they (religions, belief systems, new agers, etc.) always make it not just "our fault" but also "our responsibility" to change it when changing it (on this plane) isn't even possible!!!! There's the Lie in a nutshell.


How do you think the Divine should intervene? How do you know that the Divine isn’t intervening? Yes we are told lies, but we choose to believe them. As I said, I am fortunate, others do not have access to a free education as I did, more still do not know how to use that access as effectively, others are too busy trying to survive. The world will never become a paradise overnight, probably, I am sure that exists amongst someone’s possibles…but…that does not mean I do not have the power to enact change, I simply have to be somewhat realistic or relative in my aims.

I don’t blame anyone, I simply accept responsibility for that which I am responsible.


Originally posted by kshaund
I'm NOT responsible for any of this planet's sufferings! The Illuminati/Reptiles, whoever they ultimately are are the ones responsible! And if we don't become enlightened with knowledge now, we are doomed to be their slave again and again because the worst I can see is they behold our souls through technology and unless we learn now, we just keep following what's put before us as has been done before.


And how do you suggest this is achieved? I am not a slave, why do you think that you are? Sincerely, what about your existence enslaves you personally? If you don’t want to follow, walk in the other direction and forget about what everyone else is doing.


Originally posted by kshaund
I absolutely enjoy many things about they physical world! What I can't reconcile is the atrocities allowed again and again and again and justified over and over and over - Morgellons, H1N1, Gangs/Mafia, nuclear war, Guatanamo, etc. etc. etc. Yep, I surely do try and enjoy every moment because you just never know when it'll be your last.


I don’t see any immediate connection between those events…but…Who is allowing the atrocities to take place if not us the witnesses? We all offer our silent consent. Whatever change it is that you want to happen, no matter how small that change may be, still requires action on your part, no one is going to do that for you because they may not care about the same things that you do. If you care it is up to you to act, no one else, not unless you are willing to stand up and convince them of the need to do so. A favourite Mabanism of mine, we are our own worst enemy (or that general idea). Choice, it’s always there, but you have to look for it and you have to decide whether to take it.



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