OT God not the same as NT God.....

I find it interesting that nowhere in the New Testament is God referred as; Jehovah, Yahweh, or Elohim.

Also interesting is that nowhere in the NT does Jesus talk about an angry and avenging God.

thoughts?

Originally posted by dominicus
I find it interesting that nowhere in the New Testament is God referred as; Jehovah, Yahweh, or Elohim.

actually there are several passages that are actually quotes of the OT that refer to God. so while Jehovah should have been used, likely it was taken out because of superstition.

Also interesting is that nowhere in the NT does Jesus talk about an angry and avenging God.

completely false statement.

jesus on many occasions talked about certain one being "cast out" and destroyed.

luke 3:7-8 jesus warned of the coming wrath

john 3:36

rev 19:[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
[17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

-----------------------

im not saying that god is bloodythristy, but he definatly is not complacent. there is only so my wickedness he can tolerate

Depending on what part of the OT you're referring to, there are 10 centuries between the Old and New testament. Seems enough to at least see some change in the names that are used, and it also does not strike me as odd that the style of those stories change a little, in this case less of the angry God. Stories are always a tad subjective, and until they're written down (which isn't immediately, usually) they might change a little.

So, yes, it does seem a bit different.. Just my take it on it though.

reply to post by dominicus


There are many instances throughout scripture that even point to Jesus Himself as Messiah years and years before He came down to the Earth in Mary.

www.konig.org...

Hmmm? Skeptical on my friend Yeshua are we?

Please know that He is the only way to grace and salvation to the Kingdom of God.

EDIT: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

[edit on 10-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

I cant help but be reminded of my favorite "story" of Jesus. The one were he attends church with a weapon, overturns furniture, and drives people away for the seemingly common practice of buying and selling. I know the story goes much deeper,but my point is Jesus himself showed violence, in a church none the less. Now if you believe the words spoken by Jesus,If you have seen the Son you have seen the Father, then there is God in the flesh showing violence(according to human law). What state prison or loony bin would you end up in if you went to a church and started overturning the book stores, gift shops, and kitchens selling sunday dinner?

reply to post by dominicus


Thoughts? I believe that people started realizing the paradox of a jealous god rather than a loving god.

Who would you rather be your god? A jealous god? Or a loving forgiving god?,.

If I had to pick I would choose the loving forgiving one.

Originally posted by Tyler 720
I cant help but be reminded of my favorite "story" of Jesus. The one were he attends church with a weapon, overturns furniture, and drives people away for the seemingly common practice of buying and selling. I know the story goes much deeper,but my point is Jesus himself showed violence, in a church none the less. Now if you believe the words spoken by Jesus,If you have seen the Son you have seen the Father, then there is God in the flesh showing violence(according to human law). What state prison or loony bin would you end up in if you went to a church and started overturning the book stores, gift shops, and kitchens selling sunday dinner?

The "church" to which you refer is actually more like an "embassy"....... God's embassy on Earth. Just as US soldiers carry weapons and defend their embassy in whatever foreign country they have an embassy...... God/Jesus did the same in "God's Embassy/Temple". That was the only place on Earth that Jesus would use "violence" since that was His "soil". Everywhere else is as He taught...... the "Kingdom of Satan". Like The Man said my country/Kingdom is not of/on this Earth.... except for the "Temple/Embassy" in Jerusalem. Hope that helps.

Originally posted by watchtheashes
reply to post by dominicus

 

Please know that He is the only way to grace and salvation to the Kingdom of God.

EDIT: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

[edit on 10-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

Do you have any proof or anything to back up your claims besides a (single) book called the bible?

reply to post by watchtheashes

Please know that He is the only way to grace and salvation to the Kingdom of God.

lol no you're thinking of Sanātana Dharma,you must follow the path of the Vedas and the Upanishads only then will you gain the enlightenment required to forge you're own salvation - you must have been tricked by an evil sprite or some mashination of human suffering into thinking that only subservience will set you free -how ironic, you put more shackles onto yourself in the hope of finding freedom.


hehe ok now back to the topic in hand....

You say that there are two gods in the Christian bible? go back and check again, there are actually quiet a few distinct gods all wrapped up into one. Take NT as an example, Paul comes along at the end and creates this whole new godhead figure which is jesus which no one who met the living jesus spoke about -as if he got back to heaven and suddenly got really angry. The point this is clearest though is when you look back at the OT, we have this strange idea that the whole bible certainly the whole OT is just one book, like 'catcher in the rye' is one book however this is very far from the truth.

certainly if you look at the other books which might have been included had it not been for a few mens opinions then the massive variety of god characters is huge, in those that were selected and then slowly edited into a cohesive single form we can see clearly from the original texts that the distinct personality's shown come from different authors working from different sources (mostly eastern philosophy) at different times - it's likely that the root stories which evolved into the biblical stories came from different tribes, different religions and had different names.

Certainly much of the early roots of the religion borrow very heavily from egyptian, babylonian and eastern traditions - it's almost as if being stuck in the melting pot of all these ideas a conglomerate religion was formed,to quell arguments about which god was best they just said 'they're all the same, really it's one god who appears differently to people' which is of course the eastern philosophy too, however over time they phased out the part that said everyone was the same and replaced it with 'we are the best' which of course helped no end when the corrupt clergy wanted to control, manipulate and enslave the idiot masses to ensure they would always get the best cut of meat.

just my two shekel's

We are in the nature of God (spiritually) he created us and we came from him .
We show jealousy we show wrath,we get angry ...we also love etc ..
Why is it so hard to believe then that God has these same attributes ?

Scripture says be angry but sin not ..(being angry is not the sin ..it is what we do when we are angry is when sin comes in) ..we use our mouth using painful words to others (which comes from our heart) and our thoughts of vengence and causing hurt to another (especially with words) is what is the sin .................
Being jealous with a Godly jealousy is not a sin ...being jealous to the point where your wife (husband) etc cant leave the house or even speak to another is when the sin comes in ...and when jealousy consumes you is when it becomes a problem .Because then you act out the sinful acts (Hateful words,vengence etc)
etc etc ............

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.


And as far as Gods name ..
God told them then he would make his NAME known among men .
Eze 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not [let them] pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
That name is JESUS CHRIST .....
Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE other NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.



[edit on 10-5-2009 by Simplynoone]

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by impaired


Yes the Bible is all I need to live a happy and prosperous life. For nothing under the sun is profitable but only those things that do with the Son.

www.biblecodedigest.com...

www.biblecodedigest.com...

Opponents of Bible codes say that you can find meaningful clusters in any book. To support their case, they presented an example of a code cluster about Hanukah they found in Tolstoy's War and Peace.

While this example was fairly comparable to clusters Bible code researchers had presented back then, our researchers have unearthed clusters that look like mountains compared to the molehill of the Hanukah example. In this report we present a detailed side-by-side comparison of the Hanukah example and the most extensive cluster researchers have located to date-- the explosive Isaiah 53 codes. In short, what skeptics told us three years ago is now completely out of date.

www.biblecodedigest.com...

www.biblecodedigest.com...

www.biblecodedigest.com...


www.biblecodedigest.com...

This without a doubt proves three things.

1) A higher intelligence wrote the Bible as super-computers were unavailable to the masses at these times. (only now can it be revealed through a normal computer, but to encode would require a super-computer or simply a Divine author.

2) Skeptics cannot possibly argue that there is not indeed a code within the Bible.

3) Jesus Christ is the Jewish and Christian Messiah. He is also the Lamb for all people.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
We are in the nature of God (spiritually) he created us and we came from him .
We show jealousy we show wrath,we get angry ...we also love etc ..
Why is it so hard to believe then that God has these same attributes ?

Scripture says be angry but sin not ..(being angry is not the sin ..it is what we do when we are angry is when sin comes in) ..we use our mouth using painful words to others (which comes from our heart) and our thoughts of vengence and causing hurt to another (especially with words) is what is the sin .................
Being jealous with a Godly jealousy is not a sin ...being jealous to the point where your wife (husband) etc cant leave the house or even speak to another is when the sin comes in ...and when jealousy consumes you is when it becomes a problem .Because then you act out the sinful acts (Hateful words,vengence etc)
etc etc ............

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.


And as far as Gods name ..
God told them then he would make his NAME known among men .
Eze 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not [let them] pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
That name is JESUS CHRIST .....
Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE other NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.



[edit on 10-5-2009 by Simplynoone]

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Simplynoone]

First of all to assume that God is a HE rubs me the wrong way... Maybe it is just me...

Why is it hard to believe that God had our attributes? Because even though the bible says we were created in his image, an omnipotent being who created the universe would know everything, right? It would have infinite knowledge. It wouldn't need to be judgemental, and IMPERFECT. It's a paradox, a big one at that...

And why always the quotings of the bible? Can't you religious folks come up with ideas and thoughts a little more original than paraphrashing a book that is almost 2,000 years old, written by man, and most likely tampered with - and not to mention, lost in translation?

I believe in a creative force (Creation), which is genderless and doesn't judge.

And I believe that the God depicted in the OT and the NT is a fake.
We shouldn't need religion (or wait, religionS) to get to the creator.
Religions have caused this world nothing but trouble... Look in your history books and watch the news...
The basic laws I am down with (no murder, stealing, etc.), but everything else (in the bible), IMHO, is bunk, tall tales, fear mongering, tampering, and more...

Jehova, Yahweh... Which one is it?

And just what are these Jehova's witnesses witness to?
Just wanted to throw that one in there...

A book, people... This all comes down to a book that everyone interprets THEIR OWN WAY.

How can you be subjective in this case? If the bible is correct, there should be no bending it to fit your beliefs, correct?

Why do I see this alot, especially when discussing how the Earth and cosmos were made in 7 days.

It clearly says 7 days, and nothing else... Who is anyone to speculate, "God's days are (probably) longer than a regular Earth day"?
This is what I am talking about, and that is just one example...
You either take it literally, or else it's all just a story with no boundaries, is it not???

Another huge example: The different denominations of Christianity... Are you kidding me? How can there be different denominations? That is taking one idea and making branches - sub-religions if you will...
Christianity > Catholocism > Roman Catholic > Protestant > Baptist, I mean, what the hell?
And everyone who belongs to each demonination will take their faith to their grave. All from a book that is misinterpreted left and right??

I don't say that I know the answers more than the next man, but I do know that this religion thing is just a farce, with the bible being the only piece of evidence (if you want to call it that).

Edit to add: I know I get worked up about this alot, but it just seems all too logical. I will say that I appreciate SOME things about religion, like the basic law keeping, but that's about it. The F word (faith) kills me. You shouldn't need something like faith when it comes to our very existence and or meaning of life... When I hear the F world, I immediately think "Game! Joke! Mindtrip!!! - Proof? Not necessary! Just believe, and all will be well".

I think not, my friends...

To me, the 5 letter F word is just as bad, if not worse than the 4 letter F word.

[edit on 5/10/2009 by impaired]

reply to post by watchtheashes


Wow now that is impressive ...I have not been one who has taken those codes seriously .....I will have to check it out now that you have my attention on it ..
Thanks for the links ...very interesting ....

reply to post by impaired


Hey suit yourself ..you asked our opinion ..and so I gave you mine ..And I included the bible verses not necessarily for you or Dom ..but for others who would want me to show proof of what I say from scripture ....so thats what I did ..sorry if it burns your butt to have to see them ...lol ..sheeshh ..

So you have a nice day okay ...

Oh and PS ...I dont know why you consider emotions as imperfections ...
it is not the emotions that are imperfect it is the way that WE choose to react to them (dwelling on them in thought till they become an action ) ....that makes them imperfect ......we will be judged not by WHAT WE DO but why we did what we did or said what we said or acted the way we acted (the intentions of our heart) ...at least in my humble opinion ...................


[edit on 10-5-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


This is from the Issac Newton Bible Code Research Society site at www.biblecodedigest.com

I've done many codes on the subject despite peoples rash opinion.

Those are not my codes at all. Some of my English matrices on Maitreya in the King James version can be found here in the predictions forum.

Keep in mind the King James version is not the same as the Torah so codes will be shorter but the statistics are still fair. Though they don't compare to this.

I can post new Hebrew matrices on there if people like. I'm not a pro at Hebrew or anything but I know some Hebrew and Greek enough to do this. That and the fact that it translates the date for me. Hee. Other than that though, the codes are very very real. The software is Codefinder: Millennium Edition.

You can find a link to it here.

www.research-systems.com...

If you don't have the money I'm not encouraging a torrent but I'm sure there is one out there but not of the newest release if there is.

The God that I have experienced is beyond anger, beyond jealousy, is all Love, is beyond words and thoughts, is transcendent.

And yet I am a Christian, well a Christian Mystic that is.

All those attributes of an angry, wrathful, vengeful, and Jealous God are all humans putting attributes on God because that's their perspective and what they want God to be.

My experience of God isn't a he or a she, but beyond that.

Did you ever consider perhaps Jesus slipped up when he got angry and started over-turning tables in the temple?

That's why I say the OT is mostly opinions and perspectives from a humans some of whom were spiritually enlightened to certain degrees.

The truth is in the direct experience beyond words. Everything else is words and perspectives all arguing and wrestling over who's right.

OT is old news, Jesus came and changed the game!!!!! Chosen people my butt. We're all chosen, all made by God and all Loved by God. If the jews were chosen it was only from them who Jesus would come from.

reply to post by dominicus


Man was made in God's image in the Genesis account of Creation. That means any emotions we have God had first. Including anger and jealousy. Things need opposites to have meaning. Good could not be good without evil.

Anger would mean nothing if there was no calm.

reply to post by Simplynoone


Simplynoone, I am sorry for coming off like that, but I have my gripes with this sort of thing.

Like the OT God slaughtering millions for the most ridiculous things... I have to find the thread here, and I will, but first:

A Jehnova's witness came to my door a few weeks ago. His first question was, "Why do people say that God kills people? He doesn't kill people. It's their own actions".

Ok

Now for the thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now you tell me, is that someone or something you want as your God and pray to?

Killing someone because he was offered incense???

These are the reasons I get so angry. Not at you personally.

-But it's this madness of how people will believe things (and take it to their graves) mostly because it was indoctrinated into them since birth.


That's not fair - to have these religions instilled into humans when they are too young to know any better. And that creates an enormous bias. Enormous.

I've got more, but that's just my 2 cents for now.

Hey, nothing personal. I'm the one with the problem here, and I will admit that any day.

reply to post by impaired


Instead of the Third Density how about turning to God? Jehovah's Witnesses come to people that need help so you can bet they're coming to the right people not just everyone. They do go door to door. They simply try to give an idea. To accept it is a choice of your own.

EDIT:

No I am not a Jehovah's Witness but I will witness the glory of His majesty when the time comes.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by watchtheashes]

Religion is interesting; studying them to me is fascinating. To address your particular question however, I find that the most relevant book I've read on the topic is called: "God: A biography".

Furthermore, there are some very detailed differences in the hebrew transliteration of certain words. For instance the words God and Lord - they are NOT the same thing. Sons of god vs children of god, satan vs ha-satan, all of these are important differences to know if you are truly dedicated to your faith.

Anyways, that being said, the aforementioned book comes from the perspective that the bible was written by man but as such it represents humanity's perspective of how god was acting at given points in his/her/it's own life. As such, it evaluates it clinically and you can observe stages of growth, anger, love, depression, etc. All through the eyes of the beings it influences (humans).

It's a pretty slick idea, and makes a certain amount of sense. Whether or not you subscribe to the concept that god can grow too (most people are taught he's infallible for some incomprehensible reason), it's a worthwhile read that should provide you with at least more interesting questions to ask