Muslim dentist 'refused to treat female patients unless they wore Islamic dress'

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Okay I know this is a stupid question but... What if a muslim where to, per accident, pray towards the wrong direction, lets say for instance there was a magnet throwing the compass off and he ended up praying towards a macdonalds or something... Would that go... un-punished ? I mean how much room for error is there on this ?

Actually... disregard that question..

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
As stupid as I may think this is, the good dentist owns a private business and can serve who he wants and not who he doesn't. If as a businessman he's stupid enough to turn away potential customers because they don't meet his religious standards, that's his choice. I really don't see a problem with this.

"NHS-funded clinic" ugh! wich means the taxpayers pay for it.

If he don't like the way we do things in england then he can go back home, and get payed the same wages a dentist out there would.

reply to post by mortalengine

I can answer, no problem.

There is no punishment for not praying or even praying the wrong way. If it was a mistake that he/she prayed the wrong direction then his prayer is accepted anyway I think, because they did not know. If he/she prayed the wrong direction on purpose, then he/she has the choice to make up for it by praying again if he/she wants.

Edit haha I'm sorry bad habit

There is plenty of room for error, it even says in the quran
[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
[88:21-22] You shall remind, for your mission is to deliver this reminder. You have no power over them.

But of course many muslims like to follow "experts" a lot without actually reading up for themselves what to do. This verse explains that it's best to research for yourself and make your own mind up.
[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
[39:18] They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom GOD has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.
[3:7] He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except GOD and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.

[2:79] Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.



But yeah this is kinda off topic lol.

Anyway I hate talking about religion too much, gives me a damn headache....haha

Peace.




[edit on 8-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by mortalengine


Use the backspace function or the delete key in combination with the arrow buttons to remove any letters or words from your post.

This would apply to the question you asked us to disregard, but were somehow unable to remove before posting...

Originally posted by mortalengine
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

Okay I know this is a stupid question but... What if a muslim where to, per accident, pray towards the wrong direction, lets say for instance there was a magnet throwing the compass off and he ended up praying towards a macdonalds or something... Would that go... un-punished ? I mean how much room for error is there on this ?

Actually... disregard that question..

You're clearly very ignorant of the Muslim faith, I suggest you head to a local Mosque and talk to some of the people there for starters. Then perhaps you should seek out your average Muslim and ask them how they feel about praying East and wearing a hijab - I'm certain you'd be in for a rude awakening.

This story is a prime example of the effects of long-term propaganda, many people aren't even picking up on the fact that the original complaints were from Muslims themselves when he illegally requested that they wear head scarves or they wouldn't be treated. Instead it's taken that he is your average Muslim and that he is a prime example of the current Islamic mission of bringing the West under Sharia law. Total rubbish, open both eyes please.

Originally posted by mortalengine

Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
As stupid as I may think this is, the good dentist owns a private business and can serve who he wants and not who he doesn't. If as a businessman he's stupid enough to turn away potential customers because they don't meet his religious standards, that's his choice. I really don't see a problem with this.

I suppose if the dentist was gay and he refused to fix your tooth because you were straight that would be ok also ?

What about...

A rastafarian dentist who refused you because you didn't have dreadlocks, or say for instance a Ku Klux Klan dentist who wouldn't see you because you were black.

It's absolutely ridiculous, what is he even doing out of his own country if he is expecting people to dress up in clothes of a religion they dont even follow just to be seen ? I suppose he's after the better money but he wants to have his cake and eat it hmm ?

Noooo no no !! According to the KFC halal thread, he is just offering a different clientele a market. He's obviously allowed to do it, I mean, how many other dentists can the people who disagree with him go to? Coh, how selfish. I mean, we *DID* after all accept them as is, bigotry and all.






edited to remove offensive comments. Please review the T&C

[edit on 9-5-2009 by gallopinghordes]

The reason for the post is to show how stupid religion is when it enters an ordered society. Its pure discrimination and that person is obviously not fit to serve the general public.

Total disgrace.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by mortalengine

 

Oh come one you obviously know nothing about islam. Muslims are not allowed to kill or force religon on people. It says in the quran. Deny ignorance.

Lob that granade in the middle east, my friend.

I honestly don't understand why people ignore the fact that so much hatred and venom comes from islam, that it is certain to procure a distinct amount of distrust.

Every time the issue of islam is raised, people rally around to bemoan about christianity, or any other religion, in order to dilute the actual problem. Failing that, they simply yell at the person with accusations of ignorance and stupidity.

When I hear about a 'terrorist act' SURE it may be the IRA. or a pelthora of other causes that use terrorist activity as a means to get a result. But most often it is Islam. And not just one area.

You don't get the IRA in Sweden.

You don't get the IRA in Pakistan.

You don't get the IRA in France.

You don't get the IRA in Bali.

Fundamentally, there is one cause of modern global terrorism.

Now, Im not trying to make this a terrorism argument, but simply highliting, you don't much hear about fundamentalist budhist terrorists, or fanatic christian terrorists, in every corner of the globe.

If *ISLAM* is not a cause in and of itself to be concerned about, despite your pals and all the happy little muslims who live in the west watching the footy, having a beer and being as far as the fundies are concerned, being munafiq - then you're not watching the same channel as the rest of us.

Will your neighbour blow you up if they face mecca and go to a mosque? Absolutely not.

Do you trust them 100% to inform the law if their cousin who has just come back from Afghanistan with nefarious intent and a plan to blow up places?

A family in conflict can be trusted. A community on the other hand, .... as has been proven, needs a closer eye.

Originally posted by badw0lf
Fundamentally, there is one cause of modern global terrorism.

Blowback Baby!

It's Karma's older, meaner Brother and he is using the weapons and training we (the west) gave to the Freedom Fighters (now terrorists) back when they were simply the Mujaheddin and before they become Al Queada ('the toilet') and were our allies against the Soviets (Russian Federation).

reply to post by _Phoenix_


Isn't it funny, how a verse can be used to kill by those who want it to be literal, yet be used to justify itself as innocent by others?

If only the PC version was taken literally by those who used it in the former sense. Sadly, they do not have the right of abdication Allah's word.

Well, depends on which Imam you listen to I suppose. Apologetic icons, or fervent leaders.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by badw0lf
Fundamentally, there is one cause of modern global terrorism.

Blowback Baby!

It's Karma's older, meaner Brother and he is using the weapons and training we (the west) gave to the Freedom Fighters (now terrorists) back when they were simply the Mujaheddin and before they become Al Queada ('the toilet') and were our allies against the Soviets (Russian Federation).

That is hinting on a specific role within a specific era. Not indicative of what I was saying.

How did the cia and all those years of secret hand shakes cause the bali bombings, or the likes of Abu Bakar Bashir to hate the west to the point of smiling at the concept of mass murder, using the qur'an as a means to justify himself and Jamaah Islamiyah?

Evil flourishes at will, regardless of religion. Yet it seems to find an all too convenient umbrella under the shadow of Islam.

Why is that, or am I just a poor sucker for the media, and not able to see the world as it really appears?

Don't answer that...

reply to post by badw0lf


First I never mentioned alcohol. Also they are not just people I know in the UK, but good people I know in countries like Morocco etc. Also you should know that every muslim country is totally different, with totally different rules, which makes it impossible for you to put them all in one group and judge them all...

I highly doubt your all knowing about all these people.

Second how much do you REALLY know about the middle east, which is a huge place with many countries?

Do you know the people? The families? the culture? The music? hobbies? Tv shows? interests? etc

How much of what you know is based on western news?

All I'm doing is defending the millions of innocent, good people who get demonised and judged all the time by people who do not know them.



[edit on 8-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by tristar
The reason for the post is to show how stupid religion is when it enters an ordered society. Its pure discrimination and that person is obviously not fit to serve the general public.

Total disgrace.

Best post of this whole thing...Disgusting...I hope her husban whent back and knocked him cold..

Give an inch they take a mile..Ya give a mile they will take the world..

Originally posted by Redpillblues

Originally posted by tristar
The reason for the post is to show how stupid religion is when it enters an ordered society. Its pure discrimination and that person is obviously not fit to serve the general public.

Total disgrace.

Best post of this whole thing...Disgusting...I hope her husban whent back and knocked him cold..

Give an inch they take a mile..Ya give a mile they will take the world..

Yeah but your forgetting the husband was probably muslim haha.

He's can do whatever he wants. If he wants to destroy his business because of his own brainwashed stupidity ... so be it.

Perhaps when he's out of work he'll learn. (then again .. he could just get angry and rampage .. god only knows what a person like that is thinking)

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by badw0lf

 

First I never mentioned alcohol.

Clarification needed - Did I say you did? Is this a jest to belittle my point??

Interesting

*Wait!!*

"Having a beer" ?? No you didn't mention that, I was simply referring to others who claim all the Muslims they know are just like the typical bloke, et al.

Ignore that, if it does not apply. I was friends with a Muslim girl who used to drink, occasionally. Would not touch pork though, but no problems having a tipple.

Second how much do you REALLY know about the middle east, which is a huge place with many countries?

I don't need to be a chef to know how to make a cake.

I certainly don't need to have visited the entire middle east, nor know about every culture contained within in order to know that there is an inordinate amount of tribal and cultural abhorrence that comes from there.

DO I complain about this? No at all. To each their own. I do not accept it, but I do not live there.

But when it starts to have implications in western society, then surely I am allowed to have an opinion, no?

And that is afterall, what this topic is about. One trait of said culture having a negative impact on a culture foreign to IT, not the other way around.

Do you know the people? The families? the culture? The music? hobbies? Tv shows? interests? etc

Meaningless and pointless, don't you agree?

BTW, I have watched Arab soaps before here in Australia, on SBS. It's a good way to practice Arabic.

How much of what you know is based on western news?

Well, depends on what you consider 'news'. Especially here on ATS.

I have seen oohhh a heck of a lot more than what the average person sees. And despite my appearance, I do try to keep my opinion unbiased. Does watching videos direct from the land itself, undeited, uncensored, count?

I don't live there, but I don't think the view is much different on the other side of the fence. It just, as always, has a different spin.

All I'm doing is defending the millions of innocent, good people who get demonised and judged all the time by people who do not know them.
[edit on 8-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

And fair call - I was not trying to demonise people who often get that from the likes of myself.

Rather, trying to point out that regardless, there is a substance to the allegation. And I am just tired of having that swept away and ignored in order to not offend those same folk.

If I berate a terrorist muslim sect, Im instantly considered a cur, and anything said is thrown out as racism. When I am simply pointing at the moon, people only look at the finger, and not the bigger picture.

Anyhoo.

Cheers.

Originally posted by badw0lf
If I berate a terrorist muslim sect, Im instantly considered a cur, and anything said is thrown out as racism.

There is a massive difference between saying "X sect are bad because of Y", and "Muslims are trying to take over the country" - either you fall into the trap of the latter or are falsely taking criticism of your beliefs as a PC attack only. The brainwashed masses make the equivalent mistake of a black person saying "Christians have no place in this country" as the KKK attacked a relative, media and government propaganda has a lot to answer for.

To me its just a matter of his view of decency... like if I was a dentist and some guy came in naked I wouldnt serve him until he covered up. (Women I wouldnt mind ha) But I see it as a decency issue, and according to his beliefs (which we may disagree with but to each his own) she should have been 'following her religion' (as he interprets it...).

If it is public health care like in Canada, Scandinavia, etc then he should follow standard procedure. But its just a matter of beliefs, like a Jew refusing service on a Saturday, or a Christian refusing service on a Sunday.

I cant really complain because in high school I wore two necklaces always, one of St. Michael (with the blessed Angel on the backside, Catholic) and one of Mjolnir (viking heritage) and I got them confiscated and investigated whether or not I was part of white supremacists...?
This I have never understood. But it is cultural what one finds offensive

This is nonsense.
The simple fact of the matter is he broke NHS rules by doing this.
He must either comply to NHS rules or his funding should be withdrawn and then be prosecuted for discrimination.
Pretty simple really.

This man was probably trained in the UK with NHS funding as well.

This is not representative of the majority of Muslims who are employed or funded by the NHS.
Just one man and his bigotry.
He should be treat exactly the same as any other bigot.

Originally posted by badw0lf
When I am simply pointing at the moon, people only look at the finger, and not the bigger picture.

Anyhoo.

Cheers.

I respect you opinion.

This is also what I am trying to point out, to remind people to look at the bigger picture. We all know what's in the news, there is no denying it. But we cannot just focus on the negative, and act like that's all there is to it.

An example would be for us to watch american news and see all the bad things that happen there, it would be ignorant of us to assume that's all there is to america, forgeting about the people, the sites, the nature etc.

It's just I'm fed up of people using news reports like this to attack "all" muslims. One dentist making all muslims appear bad.

I feel I have to defend the good people I know, friends, family etc by reminding people who do not know them and judge them anyway, that there is MUCH more to the muslim people, the countries, the cultures than what we see in the news.

It's good that you watch some arabic tv.
I love watching all sorts of shows, Chinese, japanese etc, it always good to get different perspectives.


Anyway on topic, this dentist should just do his job, I don't know how he thinks he can stay in business if he forces people to do what he wants.



[edit on 8-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]