The Islamic Tidal Wave

Originally posted by Roark
None of you are under threat of living under Sharia law, nor of "oppression" by Muslim rule or majority. I suspect you're merely hysterial bigots who are easily spooked by internet videos.

If we take a look at the UK specifically, the Muslim population is estimated to be 3.3%. They are hardly going to swamp you.

Grow up and find a more constructive way of dealing with your fears and uncertainties in life, rather than applying them to scapegoats like some Medieval peasant would do.

Actually, I don't believe that it is hysterical or illogical to be "concerned" about Islamic law taking over if one lives in a region populated with a large percentage of Muslim infux...namely and particularly, radical ideaologies of said religion. History shows us this has happened in many established sovereign nations and empires. Ancient Persia (now Iran/small regions of Iraq), Malaysia, and Kazakstan speak for themselves. Is it wrong for people to want to secure their cultural identity and not have it bulldozed and over thrown?And, should they want their sacred shrines, ways and beliefs eroded by the tenents of Islam?

Originally posted by Wehali
There are far more Christians than Muslims in the world..

Pagans, animists, atheists and agnostics outweigh them all...but we aren't seeking to kill and destroy anyone in the name of our beleifs of non-beliefs.

Neither are the vast majority of Muslims! This is exactly why I used the word "hysterical".

European population could drop by several million people and they would be fine except for the growth of the Muslim population.

There are solutions, and this could be reversed.

Vastly reducing immigration would be the first step.

Put in place laws against arranged marriages for girls under the age of 18.

Put in place laws that require immigrants to attend schools that teach western principles and beliefs.

Start protecting Muslim women who want to escape the rule of Islam. If Muslim women were given far more control over their lives, their birth rates would probably drop to a level equal that of Europeans.

If these types of solutions are not put into place soon, Europe will be controlled by Islam in a few decades. Why do you think India has such high birth rates. They are in competition with Islam.

Originally posted by Roark
Neither are the vast majority of Muslims! This is exactly why I used the word "hysterical".

Doesn't matter ... Muslim extremist's are making a bad name for the rest of them. You Muslims need to get a handle on the violent extremist ones.

If Christians (et al.) were consistently violent extremists murders you bet I'd have a bone to pick with them!

It's not racist or whatever... It's anti-senseless violence.

It's also OK to be fiercely angry with Muslim Extremists! I know, I am!

The problem isnt Muslims or Islam in general, the problem is more specific.

Take a look at native Islamic countries today. Just about all of them have extremist groups, what people call terrorists, who are supported by the local population and given quarter, as well as assistance, even with intel. The problem is that even though moderate Muslims are not the ones shooting the guns and detonating the explosives, alot of them secretly sympathize with the extremists, because of their common bonds, and because to some these guys look like freedom fighters. Heck, alot of them don't even keep it a secret, they come out and participate in marches and rallies. I'm not saying all who attend sympathize with terrorists, just that alot do.

So then, take it a step further. Lets look at Pakistan and Afghanistan, particularly the border area. The tribal Muslims who aren't in the Taliban or in Al-Qaeda are giving quarter to these extremists, some of whom are locals and some of whom are foreigners. They assist them with intelligence by letting them know anything that they might see regarding enemy troop movements. And more sinister things like informing them that theres a foreign journalist nearby who is European, next thing you know, that journalist is on TV bound and begging for their life. Not all the tribal people assist the extremists, just some of them. As you go deeper into Pakistan, you still find large groups of radical Muslims who don't openly participate in any fighting but are very vocal about their support for the extremists.

So what am I getting at? As the population of Muslims increases in Europe, Canada, and the United States, Muslim extremist groups will also increase in those same countries. They go hand in hand, you cannot have a majority Muslim country that doesn't have extremist groups in there somewhere. Seriously, think about it .. think about every Islamic Republic that comes to mind, each one I think of has homegrown terrorist groups, some more popular than others. So not only will there be increased extremists in the Western countries, so too will there be moderate Muslims that quietly support the extremists, and some of them will undoubtably assist the extremists, making the entire situation that much more worse and complicated.

Just look at how Iraq has been post-invasion. Im not saying that Europe will resemble Iraq, but look at how many innocent civillians got caught up in the battles? It is because they hide amongst those that give them quarter. The same thing will happen when Europe goes majority Muslim, or America for that matter. Due to the sheer number of them, some will be extremists, and some will support them, and innocent people will die as a result of it.

Originally posted by DrMattMaddix
Doesn't matter ... Muslim extremist's are making a bad name for the rest of them. You Muslims need to get a handle on the violent extremist ones.

So you're suggesting that the average moderate Muslim needs to somehow control the actions of the extremist fanatics who are committing atrocities?

Great solution! There's only one thing wrong with your idea, DrMattMaddix. It's stupid, ineffectual, and apparently based on your bizarre notion that all Muslims are somehow in cahoots with each other.

Moderate Islamic scholars, clergy and community leaders regularly speak out against the violent actions of terrorists. These moderate Muslims have no control over the actions of the criminals perpetrating terrorist actions. How do you porpose that they "get a handle" on them, exactly?

[edit on 27-4-2009 by Roark]

Originally posted by Roark

Originally posted by DrMattMaddix
Doesn't matter ... Muslim extremist's are making a bad name for the rest of them. You Muslims need to get a handle on the violent extremist ones.

So you're suggesting that the average moderate Muslim needs to somehow control the actions of the extremist fanatics who are committing atrocities?

Great solution! There's only one thing wrong with your idea, DrMattMaddix. It's stupid, ineffectual, and apparently based on your bizarre notion that all Muslims are somehow in cahoots with each other.

Moderate Islamic scholars, clergy and community leaders regularly speak out against the violent actions of terrorists. These moderate Muslims have no control over the actions of the criminals perpetrating terrorist actions. How do you porpose that they "get a handle" on them, exactly?

[edit on 27-4-2009 by Roark]

Well, for one thing, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish etc. all have a hierarchy of guidelines that are obeyed down to the local level...

Neither one of us know how Muslim/Mosques and their 'church' are structured or either one of us could say how that is to be achieved.

I can show you this link and there are even more supporting links to the Quaran » at this site «.

I should warn you though if you start learning more about Islamic you need a stronger stomach than most American's have... You'll never see this on the news because this # looks extreme to things in America.

I enjoyed the Tidal Wave video... Slick and to the point. Too bad we have to be tolerant of Islamic because everything they teach is outside of everything that the Constitution of the United States of America is founded upon. I'd be labeled as racist or any other negative term. Good thing I have thick skin.

No One In America Understands Muslim

Or do you?

Islam is carrying out a war on all fronts with its ridiculously high birth rate, and the people of the world need to start recognizing this for exactly what it is, and start fighting back by finding methods to cut Islamic birth rates.

Start treating Islam like the mafia, because that is what the religion really is. Arrest not only the killer in honor killings, but the father and the rest of the sons as well, and the clergy who advise this man. This should also be done when they find child brides.

Get the women their rights, and the ability to control their own bodies, and Islamic birth rates will drop.

If you look at world population trends, high birthrates are the last thing we need. Population stabilization is what we need, but when a group of people decide that they will use high birthrates as a method of conquest, that is completely screwed up.

reply to post by Roark


So it is perfectly ok for moderate Muslims to turn a blind eye to the activities of Islamic extremists who are preaching hatred and in some cases participating in terrorist activities?

They should be doing exactly the opposite and should be taking positive and proactive measures to slay the wolf in their lair!

Far too many Muslims turn a blind eye, plead ignorance and refuse to accept any responsibility whatsoever!

Muslim extremism is growing in numbers and influence and needs to be opposed at all costs.

I must admit i find a slight problem with the Islamic moderates.

They often criticise how women are treated in the west, with their freedom and loose ways, but rarely speak out at the disgraceful treatment of women in the middle east. I would like more Muslims to talk about how horrid the treatment is of women in the middle east. They might do it privately but they never seem to do it publicly on the world stage.

It suggests to me that many Muslim males all secretly see women the same way. As people who should be subservient to their husbands.

If something isn't done about the high birthrates of the Muslim population, so their rapid increase in population, then your grandchildren will be the minorities, and the females will be subject to the harsh laws of Islam.

A woman winds up in a situation where she doesn't have an escort, and gets raped, according to many Islamic countries, it is her fault. In a Europe with an Islamic majority, the safety of women will be greatly reduced. Already women in Europe face higher rates of rape from Muslim immigrants. Something needs to be done.

reply to post by poet1b


I can tell you right now that the laws would have to undergo major overhauls in the UK for Islamic law to be the ruling law. Even if the people in the UK who weren't Muslim were at 30% they wouldn't take this, there would be riots, people would die, it would never take effect. Before it got to 50% of Muslim population i can see riots and i must admit i fear that happening.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by poet1b

 

I can tell you right now that the laws would have to undergo major overhauls in the UK for Islamic law to be the ruling law. Even if the people in the UK who weren't Muslim were at 30% they wouldn't take this, there would be riots, people would die, it would never take effect. Before it got to 50% of Muslim population i can see riots and i must admit i fear that happening.

Haven't you had Jewish law there for well over a century? Isn't that how Muslims want Sharia too applied in the UK? You know, to settle civil matters if both parties agree..

[edit on 28-4-2009 by rhinoceros]

Originally posted by Freeborn
So it is perfectly ok for moderate Muslims to turn a blind eye to the activities of Islamic extremists who are preaching hatred and in some cases participating in terrorist activities?

They should be doing exactly the opposite and should be taking positive and proactive measures to slay the wolf in their lair!

Far too many Muslims turn a blind eye, plead ignorance and refuse to accept any responsibility whatsoever!

Hang on. I didn't say that at all. Please don't misrepresent me when you are preaching your redneck prejudice.

As I already stated:

Originally posted by Roark
Moderate Islamic scholars, clergy and community leaders regularly speak out against the violent actions of terrorists.

Doesn't mean they can control these psychos.

Originally posted by poet1b
If something isn't done about the high birthrates of the Muslim population, so their rapid increase in population, then your grandchildren will be the minorities, and the females will be subject to the harsh laws of Islam.

A woman winds up in a situation where she doesn't have an escort, and gets raped, according to many Islamic countries, it is her fault. In a Europe with an Islamic majority, the safety of women will be greatly reduced. Already women in Europe face higher rates of rape from Muslim immigrants. Something needs to be done.

Some Muslim populations by country:

Australia 1.5%
UK 3.3%
USA 3%

Are you suggesting that these proportions will exceed 50% within 2 birth generations? That's preposterous.

I can't take this thread seriously any more. It's a farce. Most of you appear to be either prejudicial fearmongers, or merely easily spooked by internet propaganda.

Have fun playing the medieval peasant.

Originally posted by Roark

Hang on. I didn't say that at all. Please don't misrepresent me when you are preaching your redneck prejudice.

Ha ha ha, redneck prejudice??

I am no redneck I assure you and I am most definately not prejudiced.

You Sir have made incorrect assumptions about me simply because I have a different opinion to you.
Very sad and very blinkered.

I can only speak as I find and as far as I can see there has only been limited condemnation of any of the atrocities carried out by Muslim extremists by the general, moderate Muslim majority.
Indeed they have taken little to no steps to stop the advancement of Islamic fundamentalism.

Approximately 50% of all mosques are now said to be under control of Muslim extremists.
The moderates will soon be the minority.

www.channel4.com...

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

This was followed up more recently with:

www.channel4.com...

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Roark
Moderate Islamic scholars, clergy and community leaders regularly speak out against the violent actions of terrorists.

Doesn't mean they can control these psychos.

Do they?
I certainly don't recall much evidence of this.
I do recall a very small protest in support of the British 'Teddy Bear' teacher locked up in Sudan, islamineurope.blogspot.com... but I honestly can not recall any significant displays of protest against Muslim extremism here in the UK.

I interact with Muslims on an almost daily basis and any attempt to discuss these matters are always met with complete stonewalling and a downright refusal to condemn.
Even the lapsed and 'westernised' Muslims I know, some of whom I consider friends, can be very, very reluctant to comment despite feeling free to comment on any other subject with me.


[edit on 28/4/09 by Freeborn]

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Haven't you had Jewish law there for well over a century? Isn't that how Muslims want Sharia too applied in the UK? You know, to settle civil matters if both parties agree..

[edit on 28-4-2009 by rhinoceros]

Two points here.

In a Muslim court one man counts as two women. That is only one of many problems with it. I am also fully against the Jewish courts. Personally i see the law as the law and our citizens should abide by our laws. The Jewish courts should be abolished, if they cannot live by our rules they shouldn't live here. That doesn't mean they can't have their religion, but they shouldn't impose upon our legal system.

However introducing Sharia law would be even worse than the Jewish courts. The Jewish courts are at least a minor thing, the Sharia law courts would be expanded as their followers are zealots. The ones pushing for Sharia law tend to be extreme in their bliefs and would continually propagate their legal ideas into other areas. With our terrible PC government we would end up with terrible abuses of women, maybe they would eventually allow whipping.

This is the problem, a government scared to criticise when the people want to stop it from happening. This will simply lead to riots and i want that stopped now, not later.

reply to post by Roark


Obviously you didn't bother to watch the video that started the thread. I guess you are just here to insult people, and play the fool.

The Netherlands might see its Muslim population increasing to 50% in 15 years.

But hey, do another hit.

reply to post by DrMattMaddix

Originally posted by DrMattMaddix
Neither one of us know how Muslim/Mosques and their 'church' are structured or either one of us could say how that is to be achieved.
...

No One In America Understands Muslim

Or do you?

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Anyone in America who cares to ask a muslim will find out. Anyone who cares to research it will find out. All this hiding around and xenophobia and animosity has resulted in this: you apparently don't even care to ask a muslim. There is no hidden hierarchy. The Islamic 'Church' is not an an 'organised' religion in that sense of the word. The mullah's at the mosque are there to lead the people to pray, and to give sermons. They have no other function.


reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
In a Muslim court one man counts as two women.

Absolutely and completely wrong. This probably being something you 'heard', and accepted without investigating it and the context, because it fit in with your belief system that what you think is right, and everything else must be wrong. In some cases (for example adultery) the woman's statement is given higher precedence than the man's.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Personally i see the law as the law and our citizens should abide by our laws. The Jewish courts should be abolished, if they cannot live by our rules they shouldn't live here. That doesn't mean they can't have their religion, but they shouldn't impose upon our legal system.

Yes, and when they decide to get married/divorced/leave a will in accordance to their religion (which you agree they can practice), then you are saying that it doesn't matter that their marriage/divorce/inheritance will not be official in the eyes of the legal system? How exactly is this imposing on you, may I ask?

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
The ones pushing for Sharia law tend to be extreme in their bliefs and would continually propagate their legal ideas into other areas. With our terrible PC government we would end up with terrible abuses of women, maybe they would eventually allow whipping.

And you know this how?


There is such a lot of misinformation going on here, it is appalling.