The Islamic Tidal Wave

This is all ridiculous... it's amazing really how statistics can be used to paint a picture that makes things seem a certain way...

#1

FIRST Generation Islamics have 8 babies, 2nd and 3rd will have 99% western attitudes on the subject and not do that...

#2

The generally global trend is away from organized religion period, even in many parts of the middle east, the revolution will not be televised there, but even in countries like Iran The Mullahs have a frail hold on power from the hearts and minds of many of the people

#3

The policies of the West have affected our birth rates, many of us disagree with this and already are having more children...

The reality is many of us do have 1 kid

that % of our population will match those figures

I'm 38 with 3 and looking to have more, several more children in fact...

People in NY and Cali might have 1 kid... you can count on our more religous types Jews and Mormons and increasingly Christians to fight the Uterine wars lol

#4 America hasn't lapsed into decline because of Mexicans...they are Catholic and... of European decent mainly and... They can go baby for baby with the best of us and inter marrying between Americans and Mexicans IS HUGE

#5 There's no one in canada anyway and there are 400 Million Mexicans and Americans

Don't know about Europe but we ain't going anywhere, nor will the Northern half of our continent even if it is half Muslim that's 15 Million people vs everyone elses opinion

and jesh, we really do want to invade Canada down here...seriously, nothing personal just the land, give us a reason an excuse...


It's one thing to move to Europe and have a bunch of children

a whole other given TV and Media and culture and school to have them do the same... they will mostly end up in a generation or so like anyone else, many are very lights skinned... aside from a slight semetic nose not very diferent in appearance from southern Europeans

and they , many of them as they become en cultured will breed with Europeans and many Europeans like... Many of us in the states will say FRACK the Mercedes...and have a few extra kids when the COMPETITION becomes intimidating

in 100 years... Europe will be not much different than it is today...

Yeah there will be girls of Muslim Ancestory or even of Faith as in i.e they are born someone says a prayer...

But much to Grandpas Chagrin they will as teens head out topless on the Riviera to sip Wine, perhaps Tan a bit better...

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I hope you are right, and that is the way it goes, but there is still considerable problems with the radical elements of Islam. European governments need to go after these radical clerics who preach jihad against the west. Specific laws should be written to deal with these radical elements, and to protect the women and girls from things like honor killings, and arranged marriages before the age of 18. They should treat the radical elements like the maffia, which is essentially how they behave.

Still, non-Muslims need to keep up the political pressure on Muslims to get rid of the radical elements in their midst, and learn to become more co-operative and embracing of other cultures. Stepping up on restrictions in immigration would also be a good idea. Why aren't the Muslim nations developing industries of their own? This is something that people need to become concerned about.

While Western nations are dealing with this influx of immigrants, and in Europe, the influx is predominately Muslim, western cultures are still undergoing large and difficult changes, and that complicates the problem.

With productivity levels continuing to increase, business demand for workers drops when fewer workers are needed to produce the same amount of products. This is an old problem, with the result being that we have morphed into a disposable society, which is something that needs to change. The European effort to lower the work week is a good way to go, and they probably need to move more in the direction, allowing more people to participate in the economy. If there is anyway of keeping Muslims from adopting radical ways of Islam, giving them some economic opportunity would probably be the most effective.

Anyone who takes a look at world population growth can easily see that engaging in competition through birthrates in a contest to see which group can out breed the other is a seriously bad idea.

Of course there is also a current problem in Western cultures dealing with the war between the sexes, which is still going on as a result of our technological advancement, which has greatly altered the relationships between men and women.

Originally posted by poet1b
Obviously you didn't bother to watch the video that started the thread. I guess you are just here to insult people, and play the fool.

The Netherlands might see its Muslim population increasing to 50% in 15 years.

But hey, do another hit.

I watched the video. I just don't rate it as well-researched or reasonably thought-out. I feel quite the same about your Henny-Penny views concerning the Muslim population.

Just because something is published in video format on the internet, doesn't make it factual, nor its conclusions based in reality.

I really feel that people should just take responsibility for themselves and do their best to make the world a better place instead of grasping for scapegoats (in this case: moderate Muslims) in their frustration.

That's all.

This guy cites his sources as the World Christian Encyclopedia and the World Bank:

www.geocities.com...

His research shows a decline in the rate of growth (don't confuse this with overall decline) of the world Muslim population.

Is he right? I don't know, but at least he cites reasonable sources.

I am just sick of fearmongering and the incitement of paranoia which serves an obvious agenda.

That's all.

reply to post by Roark


Well, you are probably right, the video may over exaggerate the problem. When looking at the statistics you provided, that does look to be the case. In fact, if the numbers in the link you provided are accurate, then Muslim population growth in the largest Muslim countries may have fallen below the levels needed to sustain population, and in my opinion that is a good thing. Migration might have something to do with this. I currently think world population is too high. The rate at which Latin populations in Latin America is growing is also dropping.

Still, nobody is scapegoating Muslims. That would mean that we are blaming the Muslims for our problems, and nobody is doing that. Ok, some may be blaming Muslims for problems, but both sides are guilty of this. No one is claiming that Muslims are causing Western population growths to decline, or blaming our economic problems on the Muslim population, or any of our other serious social problems here in the West. When we start blaming Muslims for our high crime rates here in the U.S., then you will have a point. Clerics preaching jihad, honor killings, and marrying off 10 year old girls to 40 year old men are all Muslim problems. Terrorism does effect us all, but I think it is clearly evident that this is also a Muslim problem, that it is worse in the Muslim world, and as this is going on in all the cultures where Muslims have developed a presence.

I understand what you are saying about fear mongering, which is why I think it is good that these discussions are carried out on forums. They allow the issues to come out in the open.


[edit on 29-4-2009 by poet1b]

It exagerates unashamedly, dude.

Here is a study conducted by the Population Research Bureau:

www.prb.org...

It shows that the gap between the birth rates of European non-Muslims and European Muslims is actually narrowing significantly.

reply to post by Roark


Figures you would be that way and insist on doing research.

In the sites I visited, and I tried to look for neutral information, the only hard numbers I have seen aren't all that informative, but do indicate that the rise in the Muslim population growth in Europe has slowed a great deal over the last decade or two. None of these articles give any sources for the numbers they give out. How accurate this video is depends on the time frame that they are looking at. One article that I found worth posting, from Dec 04, made some points that no one seems to be talking about.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

DAYS before she was due to be married, Ghofrane Haddaoui, 23, refused the advances of a teenage boy and paid with her life. Lured to waste ground near her home in Marseilles, the Tunisian-born Frenchwoman was stoned to death, her skull smashed by rocks hurled by at least two young men, according to police.

Although the circumstances of the murder are not clear, the horrific “lapidation” of the young Muslim stoked a French belief that the country can no longer tolerate the excesses of an alien culture in its midst. A few days ago, pop celebrities joined 2,000 people in a march through Marseilles denouncing violence against women, particularly in the immigrant-dominated housing estates. The protest against Islamic “obscurantism” and the “fundamentalism that imprisons women” was led by a group of Muslim women who call themselves Ni Putes ni Soumises (Neither Whores nor Submissive).

The movement, which emerged three years ago to defend Muslim women, is spawning similar groups across Europe, supported by a mainstream opinion that has recently abandoned political correctness and wants to halt the inroads of Islam.

Dominique de Villepin, the Interior Minister, is deporting foreign imams who support wife-beating and other uncivilised practices. This week the Government moved to ban a Lebanon-based television channel for anti-semitic broadcasting. The left wing, which long shunned criticism of Islam as the stock-in-trade of Jean-Marie le Pen, the far-Right leader, now denounces the “totalitarian”, anti-feminist, antisemitic doctrines of the fundamentalists. Jacques Julliard, a leading left-wing commentator, said the Left’s longstanding tolerance had been used as “an agent for the penetration of Islamic intolerance”.

When you read the article, it talks about how all over Europe, governments are taking action against Islamic extremism, and this may very well be why they are seeing the drop in the rate of Islamic population growth in Europe. If I am not mistaken, Europe has been making efforts to curb immigration for the last couple of decades. I think this will actually be good for Muslims in the long run.

There are those who are trying to build a bridge between the two cultures, which is also talked about in this article.

The French consensus was symbolised by the 80 per cent public support for the head-scarf ban, which started with little trouble in September. While many Muslims felt stigmatised, the Government took comfort from the approval of the ban by a substantial minority of the 10 per cent of the population that is of immigrant origin.

Among them is Fadela Amara, a Muslim town councillor from Clermond Ferrand, who heads the Ni Putes, Ni Soumises movement. “The veil is an instrument of oppression that is imposed by the green fascists,” she says. Mme Amara, who led the Marseilles march, advocates an “open Islam, an Islam of French culture a bit Gallic around the edges”. This is also the aim of the state, which two years ago created a national Muslim Council to promote moderate mainstream Islam. The council was set up by Nicolas Sarkozy, the then Interior Minister, who now heads the UMP, President Chirac’s centre-right party.

It seems that most of these moderate Muslim movements are being led by women. Looks like the feminist movement might be finally coming to the Muslim world. Misery loves company

reply to post by poet1b


There are a huge number of problems to contend with...

But I have to be honest

I don't see either Overpopulation

or Islam

winning a fight against modern technology

In the first case, I firmly believe it is foolish for us in the west to restrict or limit the number of children we have, I have full faith from disease to food, altering our environment we will solve our problems

in regards to Islam

Science has already slain religion in the west

We look at fundamentalists right now and it's hard to imagine, but... they wont manage to keep a superstitious hold on their children

Silently in parts of Pakistan and in Iran and certainly other places like Dubai or UAE it's happening, people who adopt social rule but don't actually care, are educated modern wish to be more progressive, they wish and end to war and stupidity among many of their people

Islam can grow as large as it likes... in another 20 years tops they wont be able to contain the massive falling away from superstition that will happen

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I hope what you say is exactly what will happen. IN fact it is what I think will happen, but not if we let the radical elements strong arm the people into living under religious extremism. There is a very real possibility that religious extremism can rise again and start moving us back into the dark age. Look, GW got elected, and it was the religious extremists who aided greatly in putting him into office.

Duh, praying to God 5 times a day can't be beat.

So buds, pray six times a day.

I thought all the suicide terror was mk ultra from the
Illuminati, whoever blamed the Muslims on conspiracy boards.



[edit on 5/6/2009 by TeslaandLyne]