Why doesn't God heal amputees?

reply to post by Grandma


"Yes, I do believe that he could but he doesn't do anything out of order. There is a order of things as plan if you will. Just as nature renews itself the Lord will renew us. "

That, my good lady, qualifies as a rationalization. If "the Lord" works miracles, why wouldn't he work one so basic?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by Grandma

 

"Yes, I do believe that he could but he doesn't do anything out of order. There is a order of things as plan if you will. Just as nature renews itself the Lord will renew us. "

That, my good lady, qualifies as a rationalization. If "the Lord" works miracles, why wouldn't he work one so basic?

Is it not also a rationalization on your part to assume that if they are not being healed, then it does not exist?

Originally posted by badmediaIs it not also a rationalization on your part to assume that if they are not being healed, then it does not exist?

Why would it be a rationalization? The so-called "God" has the power to do it, if the believers are to be believed. And if a person is "worthy", there's no reason not to do it. Unless, of course, he's not really there.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by badmediaIs it not also a rationalization on your part to assume that if they are not being healed, then it does not exist?

Why would it be a rationalization? The so-called "God" has the power to do it, if the believers are to be believed. And if a person is "worthy", there's no reason not to do it. Unless, of course, he's not really there.

Wow, I'm not even sure how to respond to you. You live in a world of absolutes that I can't even imagine. And I've showed you the flaws in your way of thinking multiple times.

In order to follow your logic we must assume:

1. If something exists or is possible, then it must be in our perspective. If it is not in our perspective, then it is by default impossible, or does not exist.

2. If something does not meet the requirements we give, then that something does not exist. Rather than being open and looking for valid signs of something, we should define our own signs and test against that?

Could it not just as easily turn out that god is real, but what people say of him is false? Why is this position not allowed for in your logic? Maybe he is real, but he hates you and thinks you are ignorant and aren't worth his time? I don't think so, but shouldn't that at least be allowed for?

I guess if I find ice, it is not really water or a sign of water since it doesn't fit the description of a liquid in that state?

For any topic, your line of logic would be completely inadequate and equated to being the thinking level of an ostrich.






[edit on 4-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


"You live in a world of absolutes that I can't even imagine. And I've showed you the flaws in your way of thinking multiple times.

Sorry if the logic is too complex for you. The fact is that God that doesn't heal amputees because God doesn't exist. Got that?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by badmedia

 

"You live in a world of absolutes that I can't even imagine. And I've showed you the flaws in your way of thinking multiple times.

Sorry if the logic is too complex for you. The fact is that God that doesn't heal amputees because God doesn't exist. Got that?

What if the bible had said that god likes to bruise people and do such things to them. What if it pleases him to see good people suffer, especially at the hand of sinners? Would god then also still no longer exist? Or would that be proof that god does exist?




[edit on 5-5-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by badmediaWhat if the bible had said that god likes to bruise people and do such things to them. What if it pleases him to see good people suffer, especially at the hand of sinners? Would god then also still no longer exist? Or would that be proof that god does exist?
[edit on 5-5-2009 by badmedia]

The god you describe would not be worthy of worship even if he/she/it did exist. But your example doesn't relate to mine, so why did you bother posting it?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by badmediaWhat if the bible had said that god likes to bruise people and do such things to them. What if it pleases him to see good people suffer, especially at the hand of sinners? Would god then also still no longer exist? Or would that be proof that god does exist?
[edit on 5-5-2009 by badmedia]

The god you describe would not be worthy of worship even if he/she/it did exist. But your example doesn't relate to mine, so why did you bother posting it?

Just can't bring yourself around to answering it? I didn't ask if he would be worth worshiping, I asked if that would be proof. You are basing your "logic" off what people say of god, if what people say of god changes is that in itself proof of god if what they say can be seen?

Hello to you!

Please indulge me a bit and read this Scripture and see if it means anything to you or not.

James 5:14
"Is there any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."


Have you tried the anointing of oil and laying on of hands of other Christians that believe in divine healing?


Just a thought!


Peace to you,
Grandma

Originally posted by badmediaJust can't bring yourself around to answering it? I didn't ask if he would be worth worshiping, I asked if that would be proof. You are basing your "logic" off what people say of god, if what people say of god changes is that in itself proof of god if what they say can be seen?

If I wasn't bored I wouldn't bother answering it.

No, it wouldn't be proof, the situation is absurd.

reply to post by Grandma


"James 5:14
"Is there any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.""

So, he's not keeping his promises then. Just like I said. All this nonsense has been tried, and it failed. Bronze Age medicine.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
If I wasn't bored I wouldn't bother answering it.

No, it wouldn't be proof, the situation is absurd.

Anything to avoid answering the question. This will be my last response to you, I have no interest in discussing with such dishonesty.

As for the absurdity, I doubt you will understand why, but:

www.biblegateway.com...

Isaiah 53

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

reply to post by badmedia


Pity you decided to avoid further dialog, but in your situation it's understandable. Quoting the Babble verses is not an response, btw, so you still have one coming.

My question remains unanswered by the respondents to this point. But the answer is there for those with eyes to see. God doesn't heal amputees because God isn't there.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by badmedia

 

Pity you decided to avoid further dialog, but in your situation it's understandable. Quoting the Babble verses is not an response, btw, so you still have one coming.

My question remains unanswered by the respondents to this point. But the answer is there for those with eyes to see. God doesn't heal amputees because God isn't there.

Whats a pity is you can't give the people you are debating with the tiniest bit of respect, and I'm pretty sure you are nothing but a troll. I have debated many atheists and such on these forums, and while there were disagreements the other person atleast had the decency to address what the person was saying rather than ignoring everything the person said in order to try and use ridicule.

Sorry, but I've been out of highschool for over 20 years and I have little time or patience for someone who failed to grow out of that mindset.

[edit on 6-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Ad homs aside, you are basically saying that I failed to agree with you. That's hardly a telling argument. And, please note, I don't attack a person, but I never hesitate when an idea is just too silly to live.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
I've heard people pray to get their limbs back. To Yahweh, Jesus, Allah and a variety of other gods. No joy.

So, if prayer works, why don't limbs grow back?

Why do we still believe we can handle everything without him?.

reply to post by etherical waterwave


Because we have shown time and again that we can.

I don't go through him at all. My life, my heart and my soul are in wonderful shape.

-Kyo

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
Ad homs aside, you are basically saying that I failed to agree with you. That's hardly a telling argument. And, please note, I don't attack a person, but I never hesitate when an idea is just too silly to live.

Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with me. That is not the issue at all. If everyone agreed with me, I'd find somewhere else to post because there wouldn't be much of a discussion or debate if only 1 side of the argument is presented.

The issue is the level of intelligence in which the discussion is on. I have little use or time for dogmatic responses from either believers or atheists. Dogma is useless and contradictory to gaining understanding. And when you try to present something as authoritative and fact, then you are presenting dogma.

I even changed things around on end, to where if things were the opposite in what people said, and you did everything you could to avoid the point. So it is pointless to even respond to you, as you will just do that anytime something is brought up. I think I would honestly rather be spit on, it would certainly be less disrespectful.

reply to post by badmedia


Interesting interpretation of the facts, I must say. I simply have been pointing out what the real world accepts as reality.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
I've heard people pray to get their limbs back. To Yahweh, Jesus, Allah and a variety of other gods. No joy.

So, if prayer works, why don't limbs grow back?

Hello Gawdzilla,


I have kept up with this thread and my understandings do differ from the majority. But I would like to note that I keep seeing you say that 'sense amputees arent receiving their limbs back this means god doesnt exists' (parphrase from many posts that you made, sorry if it isnt exact)....I find that to be a shallow way to be sure that there is no god (force) that you emanated from. I would need more proof then that that there isnt a 'god' within all things.

The Bible in my opinion, misleads the understanding of what god is and the nature of how god works. It gives false hopes to people that are in need of a hopeful solution. My opinion is that God does not intervene with what is because we are to learn coping and adjusting. It is proven, through studies of the human mind, that the more we are able to shape our personalities as open to experience, able to cope with change and adapt with our environment....the stronger the person is and even experiences a higher quality outlook on life, therefor being more productive in a positive manner with their own life and others around them. So for starters....if we are perceiving life as 'poor me' or life is just not fair...we are bucking the process of adapting and coping.

I am very spiritual, I believe in a life force that I would describe as divine. I use many religions and histories of cultures for my foundation...but ultimately, I think we are to use logic and reason and understanding for our beliefs. I gain little understanding, logic and reasoning from the God of the OT, therefor, my intuition does not resonate with such teachings of a wrathful god who we are not worthy of and who intervenes in the world as if things are not as they are already supposed to be.

Things are as they are to be....the environment helps shape us and who we are. Mabey the environment helped a person become this 'amputee' and they are having trouble accepting their fate. This may not be what you want to here or are willing to accept....but this is a world of cause and effect. Just because there is a order of cause and effect in this world...does not mean god doesnt exists. Just because god doesnt intervene in this world when we find it unfair...still...does not mean god doesnt exists.

I have seen energies come from people and bring a person in need hope, love, strength and contentment with accepting natures 'will'. It might make others feel better that this is god doing this....but they arent realizing, these vibes came from their own humbled energy of caring and loving another self...another human. People like to quickly give credit to Satan or to God for good and bad things. I say, the credit goes to the person themselves....and the result will be only a deeper understanding of who and what we are. I believe in a higher self...a prime self...some would call this a guardian angel. I believe this higher self can help lay a path of esperiences for us that will give us a opportunity to face something we need to work on....allowing them to gain spiritual growth if their actions show they are ready for such. I have seen too many things that seem to suggests that there are other dimensions and that there are many 'selves' to our self.

When people pray, they may believe that energy is coming from a separate entity, a god, that is only intervening because of their humbled heart during pray. I say, the power of praying is within the people themselves, the divine that is within them. I think there is limitations to what this energy within us can do, and I dont think it can do supernatural miracles that have no foundation of science that can be explained. I think it is possible that people praying can send a loving energy to a person in need of it, or a warm vibe to someone in need of it....but this energy has limits. I think if many people are focusing on the same need or want....possibly a future event can be detoured...but a present event can not be changed. I think this is the meaning of us being co-creators. Since this is not a prime world of spiritual rhelms, the law of cause and effect rules here. But...our learning here, our coping and adjusting, teaches us things that we will use in the spiritual rhelm. Our hardships have purpose....the worst of things brings out the better things...if the person allows it to. The hardships have purpose and we shouldnt ask that the hardship just goes away. Take the harder path...not the easier one. Take the narrow way....not the broad way. Chin up and be a light for the others that are struggling in the same fate as you. Learn from your opportunities, instead of bucking against them as unfair and unjust.

Short answer....God doesnt intervene. Angels mabey, but only as guides, not miracle workers. Spiritual beings may comfort us, be with us, guide us in learning about who and what we are....but I dont believe in supernatural interventions by God that will change the course of a current situation. Not because God cant...but because Thee works in order and Thee's nature doesnt work in ways of intervening here and there...but yet not there and here. Its is too hit and miss for me to place faith in God intervening. Plus, I have experiences that I prayed for many years....the result did not make me loose my faith, but yet see God in a different nature then what I was taught to see the in.

With a humbled mindset....one doesnt ask for a intervention for a 'change' of their fate....but yet they accept their fate, what ever the will of nature brings for it. Its not that I dont think supernatural intervention isnt possible, I think there are spiritual vibrations that can and do intervene.....but their intentions are to lure the being of flesh into a nature that is not divine and is not preparing them for being a divine fractal of the 'Monad' of all things. Except, cope and adjust....then be a light for others struggling with these same hardships.

My best,
LV