Obama Will Sign GIVE ACT Into Law Today!

reply to post by greeneyedleo


This is what we are going to have to deal with for the next century when it comes to the educated youngster of our latest generation. They can't see the way they are indoctrinating themselves. They can't see that words have meanings that have been twisted. Orwell tried to warn us but 'New Speak" is real and these kids can't see it! They rave against religion not realizing they themselves are being religious in there ideas of what our freedom and what this country is truely about! They are right and no one should deviate from their norms, not seeing that they are being duped by the very people that will never let them actualy live the lives they percieve!
Truely, truely sad!!

Zindo

[edit on 4/21/2009 by ZindoDoone]

Originally posted by Ant4AU
Boss, I mean Mr. President I just got a call from the hospital and the doctor is saying my mom wont make it another hour or so. I know I just got here for my mandated 2 hours of volunteering but may I go to the hospital and be with my mom as she passes.

“GET BACK TO WORK YOU LEAVE WHEN I TELL YOU TO LEAVE.”

My choice here is to deal with the consequences of leaving my volunteer position. Granted this scenario may be way overblown, but I can honestly see something like this happening. Would you really rather be serving your community like a good little boy or girl scout. Or be with your mother one last time.

You understood the rules when WE assigned you to the volunteer position. Leave and suffer the consequences.

This is all.

Signed,

Big Brother

reply to post by PammyK

It appears to me that the Government is going to do what many parents will not do for their children. You know, teach them how to help each other.

Since when does the government, or you, decide what is right for people's children?
That is the responsibility of the parents, not the government.

This quote may just be what many here are forgeting:

It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. -Thomas Jefferson

Zindo

My parents and I volunteer through the local RSL Club to go around hospitals and nursing homes giving out free toiletries and magazines etc.

We do it because we enjoy the experience and like helping others. We volunteered to do it.

I'd enjoy it a hell of a lot less if I was forced into it by a government I didn't vote for.

Some people don't get it.

Volunteering is about giving away your time FREELY AND OF YOUR CHOOSING. It isn't being forced into a Socialist 'Work For The Motherland' program.

C'mon Comrades, do your part for the glorious Sovi... wait... United States!

Originally posted by fooffstarr
My parents and I volunteer through the local RSL Club to go around hospitals and nursing homes giving out free toiletries and magazines etc.

We do it because we enjoy the experience and like helping others. We volunteered to do it.

I'd enjoy it a hell of a lot less if I was forced into it by a government I didn't vote for.

Some people don't get it.

Volunteering is about giving away your time FREELY AND OF YOUR CHOOSING. It isn't being forced into a Socialist 'Work For The Motherland' program.

C'mon Comrades, do your part for the glorious Sovi... wait... United States!

It's sad that someone from Australia (nice country) has more sense than the people that actually reside here.

Not clear on the details, so I'll call it a "volunteer program" for now. I've always suspected that volunteer work is bad for the economy. When you volunteer, often you're doing something that somebody else could otherwise be paid to do. With unemployment as high as it is, does that really sound like a good idea? How can anyone compete against free labor? And lets not forget, this nation had actual slaves in the past. I think it's pretty clear the economy has done a lot better since we lost that "free labor".

[edit on 22-4-2009 by son of PC]

The whole "out of the goodness of your heart / helping others should be a choice" argument is moot.

If people truly followed that mantra then this country wouldn't be the screwed up place it is right now. How many of you have ever donated time to help out an organization, assisted at a retirement home, or donated money to a worthy cause? Ok, maybe you have (I'd like to think ATS members are more benevolent percentage-wise than the rest of the population). But what about the other 306,256,013 people in this country?

I don't have time to donate ... I have to download the newest update for my iPod!!!

I don't think it's an opinion, it's a FACT. WE ARE A LAZY COUNTRY, AND LAZIER THAN WE HAVE EVER BEEN.

Now, this mandatory business ... I don't know about that one way or another. I had to take shop in high school. It was required by our district's curriculum. Same thing with music in grade school. Now I'm sure I could have gotten around them and fought and hired a lawyer and all that BS. Because no LAW required me to take them.

But what do you know ... I now build guitars. As a hobby. That I play and donate. To those less fortunate.

Look, I hate being told what to do/having freedoms taken away from me just as much as anyone else on this board. I voted for this president, and I don't like the way he's steering the ship right now. But teaching our kids to help out others in need ... is wrong?

Wowza.

I think peoples' objections are in the foresight ... seeing that this could lead to becoming slaves of the government. I see that viewpoint and it's valid. But in that case instead of discussing the info on an internet forum you need to rise up and take whatever means necessary to remove these people from their positions of power. However if you haven't performed any of those actions that I listed in my second paragraph, then it's highly doubtful you will do anything other than discuss this on an internet forum.

As stated before, this country is screwed up either way - whether by its corrupted system of government or the apathetic constituents that make up its population.



[edit on 4/21/2009 by Fiverz]

reply to post by Fiverz


Ya know, two years ago, even one year go I would have agreed with you with the apathy thing.

But no more.

I honestly think that Americans are waking up. They are seeing what is going on with our counttry and are taking steps to make sure that it doesn't happen.

OK..IS this purley volunteer work, or is this madatory work? IM a little confused over it...
Thier isnt anything worng with donating some time at a hospitol..but personally i wouldnt do it..as its a corporation, a business. Lok at the report that found medical pills in our drinking water..who was responsable for giving them out? Docotrs! A freind at work got into a minor car accident other day, has a sprained ankle..nurse at hte local hopsitol told him, he needed surgery, $!,500 operation. He got a 2nd opinon, form a foot doctor, and all he needed was a foot brace. This leads me top belive, as a buisiness, they tried to sucker him out of money. I woundt wnna voumteer for a buisness like that! Doctors LOVE giving out medication, most other countrys try and keep medication at a minimal, not like here in the states, where its a billion dollar iindustry.
It should be voumtary work..it is wrong to force anyone to do anything they dont want to do. VERY wrong,...kinda like rape yuo know?

Besides, why would i wanna tidey up a scity street, when the city itself WILL lay yuo off, or cite you for parking yuor car in hte street, all becuase it dosnt look nice in thier eyes? My city is tearing up a few parks grass, and replacecing it with synthetic grass. known so far, to have lead and iron levels..last year they found asbestos and mercury in a hgih schools synthetic turff.. Thye knew it was bad, but took a chance,. I dont wanna do free work, simply because the lairs and powers to be, dont like what they see... giving billions out to the banks, and less than handfull back to its citizens. everyone knows opoliticians lie, so why join it? why do it?

wow i mean wow... its truly amazing reading some of these comments, and actually a bit hilarious. i mean why are you guys even on this site? i can see why its sooooo easy for them to do what there doing now.

oh and btw when ur forced to do something the words freedom now have no meaning and do not exist.. and as for children doing this, wow are you guys on crack? way to take full control of us at a early age now. so much for children being children, soon itll be 1 hour then 1 hour everyday then more and more. funny thing about people is.. they "finally see" when its too late. when will any of you see? when everything is taken away from you? when your the target?

volunteer
a person who performs a service willingly and without pay.

i guess 2 words lose there meanings with this. laugh out loud

personaly if i had to volunteer, ide go,, then salute the person in charge, hitler style with a MEIN furher, reporting for duty... see how many tohers jump pn my wagon, and let em know JUST who thier trying to be like, a wkae up call.
BUt we'll have to see, how this all plays out, we'll never know, util its prgeress rolls, or the majority protest and fight it.

Who knows!! myabe some of the service, will eb sweeping up piles of carbon..from all the books they burned

I wouldn't call it slavery but a severe case of co-dependency and group think as a solution.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
This was originaly done in something called 'CIVICS' class. We all understood what it was meant for and it wasn't the government making those decisions on how to mold a childs opinions which this will be.

Really? How would it be different? You don't think it may be better if we spent far more time on 'civics classes' ( even if it's government propaganda) instead of spending so much of our time being prepared to enrich corporations? I understand the fear people have of the government but why is no mention being made that our schools are already largely about something other than what is basically good for them?

The government has no authority and no busness making anything mandatory for its citizens other than a draft of military personel in war time.

I could have ignored you post but since you seem to think that being 'drafted' is OK you in my opinion destroy your own argument. Why would people choose not to defend a country they have been indoctrinated to love? If your for a draft in the wars out governments makes on people who never threatened us why are you against the government gaining some some classroom time to supposedly instill them with what will make this drafting thing easier on everyone?

They have realy overstepped themselves and have molded this to be exactly what the National Socialists did in Germany in 1932.

The national socialist had to steal elections and gain massive foreign funding and support to create their system of subversion and oppression. Who is oppressing Americans or controlling it's government? Why did the national socialist have to steal the government? Why are you comparing apple's and oranges?

Indoctrinate the children and make them the eyes and ears of the government in our daily lives and report back to the government teachers.

Children aren't even good students most of the time so i find this leap of faith&efficiency quite strange. How on Earth is the state in this case going to turn children into informers on their parents? Where are the parents? Oh wait, their slaving away for their corporate masters while blaming the 'government' for all their troubles. Who says corporate anti government propaganda isn't working!

This is not what the talking heads are telling you. It will be used in an evil maner to deny your right to any opinion you may have that is not concurent with who is in power.

Sure, this is a inherent problem with centralized power and the more power people entrust to the system to look after them the more it can in theory be abused by the wrong people. Having said that these systems are mostly the result of what foreign intervention will allow and if European governments didn't cooperate so well with the national socialist the German people ( especially the generals) would have taken care of Hitler and his cronies quite quickly. Since Obama is hardly a Chinese/Russian or communist agent ( just a regular corporate one) the American people still have a relatively exclusively and easy to exercise power to get him out of power; the same could obviously not be said for a majority of the people on the planet who had no economic and political means to fight their imperialist imposed leaders and dictators.

Once its put in place, everybody will have to think twice before any thought they may have is uttered infront of there own children and it will never go away! Mark my words you parents,. This is evil incarnate!

Zindo

And that's just paranoid. If you can't trust yourself to educate your children sufficiently well enough to know who their loyalties lies the state should may not end up doing so much worse.

Government propaganda will ALWAYS be crude and based on your ignorance of the system while your 'propaganda' ( education) of your children should and can be far more refined and useful.

I just think it's fantastic that people think the state can start classes and suddenly subvert all parents efforts so completely. I obviously don't think much of your lack of faith in yourself and others but my question really comes down to why you would avoid the opportunity to perhaps exchange a corporate propaganda class for a social cooperation propaganda class?

This in a country where union membership has declined for decades under the sustained attack of corporations and their allies in government....

Stellar

Originally posted by SpacePunk
Well, welcome to the Fourth Reich.... comprised of liberals, and traitor conservatives.

Can't we just call them them the corporate bosses who are after all not liberal on any issues ( economic) that matters?

It always starts with the children.

Agreed which is why you should probably stop working eight or ten hour days and leave one parent at home to educate the children. Alternatively small community schools can be created with their salaries paid out of incomes of all the rest of the working parents. Stop blaming the government for the economic choices ( you would be surprised how small a house one really needs for basic survival) you have made and continue to make to get 'stuff'. If you send your children to public school the public interest is going to come first and the public interest is best serve by everyone cooperating and helping each other by means of community( firemen, policemen etc) service.

Sure, it wasn't government sanctioned as far as I know, but it's only a matter of time. To get them to suck up to this they WILL need indoctrination.

What's with the utter lack of faith in your capacity to keep your children loyal to your family? What kind of children have you or are you panning to raise?

Then there's the future brown shirts...

And they were paid by the corporate doners of the national socialist corporate party; not the state. This irrational fear of the state when it's worse excesses are almost exclusively fueled or instigated by corporate intervention really needs to end or refocused on where it belongs.

Call them what they are... Obamajugend. This is the proper term.

Just go to youtube, and search for "obama youth"

Yup and the same desperation and economic devastation that bred the national socialist ( youth and others) will perhaps create the Obama 'change' youth. I can see why you are afraid, not of change as Obama has not and do not seem likely to change the corporate control of America, but can you see why i think your anger is misplaced and in the exact why the corporations likes it?

If you think governments are tyrannical and unresponsive you must not be aware of what happens in nearly government less countries or those where the ruling rich corporate elites ARE the government.

Whatever the problems corporations create by trying to subvert our western democratically election ( if not democratically selected) systems it pales in comparison to the input we have in corporations or into the non-representative election processes and system the ruling corporation owning elite are trying to create.

In closing Americans did vote for Obama and even if you did not it makes little sense to suddenly find fault with the power they have because your candidate were not elected. That's definitely not democracy and exactly why corporations are so desperately trying to create the illusion that government is 'evil' ( funny how the corporately owned media attacks the US media as being 'liberals') and that you should not participate in the democratic process that they are so fearful of.

Stellar

Originally posted by jibeho
Reading, Writing, Math, Science, History are one thing but this gigantic bureaucratic Social Experiment is another.

Only the languages we learn , the level of math we must master, the scientific 'consensus' , to say nothing of 'history' is heavily influenced by what serves the ruling corporate elite already. In fact if you believe that the state is working against your interest who's interest other than the corporations do you believe they are working towards? Is this program bad because you don't want to see more corporate indoctrination in our schools or because you believe the state is serving a different master entirely? If so who do you think runs the US government?

More interestingly what is so subversive about forcing people to interact , ideally i guess, with their communities? Is the idea so bad or are you just very fearful of how it will be again abused by those who employ our schools to teach our children how to sit still and do mostly pointless work so that they might become prepared for what they will be expected to do for corporations for the rest of their useful lives?

In fact if i put it that way where's the difference beside that the process is perhaps being simplified so much that the ignorant/misinformed amongst are are finally figuring it out?

This is where I draw the line. This is where indoctrination takes over. The so called "lessons" that will be taught by instructors working for the "corporation" trouble me.

Who do you think writes the text books? Who prints them? Who gives generous grants to schools? If you can see such a clear line in the sand i can respect that but this seems to me to be more of the same indoctrination not some new evil incarnation of it. In fact i like the idea of a nation working and falling together; individualism is a create selling card to inspire you to work harder and harder for less and less so you car and house can be shinier or better than the 'individual' down the street. If that is what individualism is sold to be , as it is in your consumer society, then this is a in my opinion a step in the right direction.

These lessons are not clear cut black and white lessons from a Chemistry text. I have yet to see a curriculum sample.

Chemistry is not black and white as it were not always this way. Not long ago it was alchemy and that was gods truth too. Considering today's propaganda and methods of indoctrination to be any less subservient than those of days past is nothing but a good way to fall victim to the same ploys that your ancestors have over the centuries tried to defeat.

These lesson will be subject to the instructors/admins opinions and leanings.

As are EVERYTHING we find in our text books. Admittedly the volume of objective knowledge seems to have improved markedly ( as i personally believe it did by finding what faults learned people expose and lay people can understand) but in my opinion that has also increased the scope of the deceptions possible.

Again we have nothing on paper and if enough popular pressure is applied these programs can be and will be made to serve the public interest. If we fail they will as always serve the corporate interest in perhaps a more direct and efficient way.

Organizations like ACORN will qualify for funding from this program.

Based on what? Will you list some of the religious indoctrination and sex education programs ( if you can call education about abstinence 'sex education'; oxy moron if you ask me) that do get federal funding or is this a 'bash the poor who want their voices heard' only session?

An amendment preventing organizations such as ACORN from receiving funds from this bill was killed in the Senate session on this bill. I guarantee that ACORN will end up staffing half of the positions detailed in this bill. ACORN is another issue in itself.

Acorn will keep getting killed in the Senate as they stand for progress and social upliftment as espoused by the majority of the poor ( not black or other 'colored' folk) in the US.

Progressive chance will be fought at every step so if this bill passes first time round that may very well be a indication that Obama's intent with it is probably not in the interest of the American public; good things just don't seem to happen so quickly or easily.

Stellar

I am a parent. It's a good time to be homeschooling. I highly suggest it. I refuse to have my child indoctrinated into the system. The government won't be taking over my parental duty or choices. I'm highly capable of teaching my own child how to volunteer and care for their fellow man.

I believe that this is one reason they do not want parents to homeschool, so that the children are forced into their system.

Shadow, no offense to you. You are very young. I promise you when you are older like me, and have had to spend a great many years building up your life and surviving in the world your perception may change greatly about the things you choose to fight for, one of them being your freedom. Although there is nothing wrong with volunteerism, it is wrong to make it mandatory. You say "It's better than joining the military", well yes, it might be, but you give an inch and they will take a mile. You're giving up the freedom to say NO, the freedom my grandfather fought for in WWII, for you to live and die in this country a free woman. You're throwing it away.

And, let me also mention this, they told my ancestor Big Foot, "here's some land for your people. Go there and we won't bother you anymore. Your people will flourish and you'll receive meat and rations from the white father..." and you know what? He gave up in the end and his people did go to the reservation. They went with hope and trust in their hearts that if they gave in to the orders that the govt would leave them alone. A month later ALL of them wiped out at Wounded Knee. You want to trust the government, please do so with open eyes.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Asherah]