Originally posted by Jenna
Yes I am aware of that. I also know that many people get out of jury duty, so they are not actually being forced to serve now are they.
No more so than those who managed to avoid the draft by one means or another. I don't see how these programs wont have equal means of dodging even if
they turned out to be as dangerous asthe military draft or criminal as the jury&justice system .
Yes they are, which is something I also strongly disagree with and would like stopped. That is not the topic of this particular thread,
however. I pointed out the similarity between this and the draft because some in this thread cannot seem to grasp that being forced to do something
takes away the voluntary aspect.
Agreed and i think as many people cannot seem to grasp that being strongly encouraged/rewarded to do something in the communities interest isn't
'evil' and certainly as 'off topic' as the protestations that it's a a 'great' thing. If you want to discuss how this system of 'involuntary
service' can and perhaps will be abused perhaps you should create a thread about that or about the laws that are already being abused?
Mandatory civil service is not volunteer work. If it is not ok to be forced into military service, why is it ok to be forced into civil
Because in the civil service one can easily see how the community might become stronger by cooperating and even learn how to cooperate in resisting
the state if these programs becomes abused. What there is to fear in these programs in a democratic state but the fear of the state that is supposed
to act in your interest? I just don't see why this issue is noteworthy when the state has for long had much greater means of enslaving you.
You misunderstood me. I meant the people who are forced to volunteer will no longer be doing so willingly. Not that no one will
Happy to be wrong. Do you help to put our fires in your neighbours house 'voluntarily' or do you do so based on the associated risks to your house?
Do all volunteers do the work 'voluntary' ( i don't often enjoy volunteering; i just feel it's something that needs to get done and can't say no
when asked to help) or do they mostly do so because they are the type of people who understand that SOMEONE needs to do it? Why should some have the
chance to shirk their very real social responsibilities because they are either not socially developed enough to understand them or simply too lazy to
care? How much of this work would have gotten done if everyone understood the needs of the community by being forced at least to take classes , at
school , on the subject? What the hell else do we build schools for if not to socialize our children and them integrate more fully into our modern
societies? Didn't we choose it?
There is no reason why they could not offer scholarships or some other form of reward without making service to the community
mandatory. No reason whatsoever.
Well this bill didn't make it mandatory ( as the original post indicated) and does in fact offer rewards ( by increasing it's budget) and the like
for any such services voluntary rendered. Again why shouldn't civil service be any less mandatory than the possibility of getting drafted and killed
in war a government created out of practically thin air or serving on juries where you are in fact mostly serving to legitimize a system that puts
more people in jail than ANY other.
If we want to talk about outrages and 'servitude&involutary slavery' why not talk about the 1 in 99 'free' Americans being in jail while the
Chinese 'police state' only has 1 in 900 in jail? How many of the 2.3 million prisoners needs be in jail ( more than half is drug possession,
overwhelmingly no record of any crime but possesion) and of the remaining many how many would commit the mostly economic crimes they are in jail for
provided you just give them they money it would have cost to incarcerate them? That would easily amount to about 30 000 USD per person which is pretty
good even if they didn't do any additional work? Maybe they could then volunteer in all that free time saving you the effort of being forced to?
About as realistic a scenario as American kids being 'conscripted' to clean toilets and wash rehab hostels.
I just don't understand if this 'outrage' over this bill is from shear ignorance of the other systemic problems or if people are in informed and
consider this to be the worse thing imaginable.
There are incentives for "going green", yet it's not mandatory.
Because they don't really want you to go green and become independent from corporate control; no surprise there. These icentives are a JOKE compared
to the incentives offered to states to build jails and lock up people. But hey, those ARE all good reasons not to trust the state with mandating
community service; god forbid community service might turn out to be like the prison industry factory work with 'rewards' of 50 cents per hour. We
can't after all trust the people of the United states to prevent such a program from being either enacted or effectively implemented at state or
There are incentives for volunteering for the military, yet it's not mandatory. Why must this be mandatory for incentives to be
It's not so much the incentives that gets people to join the military but the lack of economic choice coupled with popular propaganda about making
the world a better place for both Americans and everyone else. Tag that propaganda and 550 billion spending ( Just pentagon; not veterans and other
costs which ammounts to about 1000 billion per year) onto this 'involuntary' 'mandatory' 'community service' and you would have to beat
Americans back with sticks to stop them joining in these economic times. Call it a 'new' , 'new deal' if you like and last i checked people were
not forced to join those programs. I just don't see why you think Americans would be fooled into this when they could not be and were not back in
the 30's ?
I don't recall doing so. You asked a question, I provided my answer. Yet it's somehow my fault that some posters cannot seem to grasp what it
is that many of us are against?
I suspect it is your fault in terms of you not being able to graps that your worse fears are not ours and nothing has been signed or discussed just
yet. Isn't job programs of practically any description good in a country with a unofficial ( but accurate) jobless rate of approaching 18% a good
Perhaps if it could be grasped we would no longer be repeating ourselves.
Ditto. If only everyone were as smart as 'us'; i feel your pain.