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Obama Will Sign GIVE ACT Into Law Today!

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posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by Amagnon
reply to post by Jadette
 


So - lets get this straight .. you want to live in a totally communist state - like China or North Korea - or more probably like Stalins Russia?

Do you know how many people died in Stalins Russia? He killed tens of millions - maybe a hundred million or more - and you want to let America become exactly that?

If you don't fight this - then nothing can make you fight.


Hmm. I'm at a loss for words here.

Now, I can understand people arguing about the mandatory thing. I get it. I disagree that in this case it's a big deal, but I do get it.

However, I don't believe you understand the conversation that we're having. If you truly think that civic duty = communism, then we cannot have a conversation. Do you understand what communism is? I don't think you do, because otherwise you wouldn't jump from what we ARE talking about, to some wild conclusion. What you're doing is called a strawman argument and isn't very condusive to true debate.




posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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If you think the government is a waste and you're super right-wing or mad at Obama anyway or perhaps really just lazy or selfish, then yeah you will be upset and there's nothing I can say or do to change your mind. I know this is a good thing.



This is not about thinking government is a waste, or being super right-wing, or being mad at Obama, don't twist this. This is about standing up for choice that are being taken away. This is being pitched as something for the betterment of society and on the one hand it is, on the other, it's choices being taken away and that is not acceptable.



Besides, the act is just going to get Congress to work on it. Specifications still need to be voted on, and I think you're all getting scared for nothing. Or maybe, again, just selfish.


No one is selfish and no one is being scared for nothing. The original speech which he later changed, said some of this would be mandatory. Those plans have never changed. All he is doing now is introducing it, making it palatable for the people, then the mandatory portions will be introduced.



It's not about being "instructed." And if you think it is, go live in another country and tell me that it's better. And again most schools require students to volunteer anyway.


You are right, it's about something far worst than being instructed. It's being indoctrinated, and having our choices, rights and freedoms taken away.

The point is they live in America, and America is suppose to be free, it's built on freedom. So why should they have to go live someplace else if they don't want to accept a doctrine that America was built on?

The schools I went to never required it? I did it, cause I liked that stuff, I had a choice to do that stuff, I choose to do that stuff on my own, but lot's of my friends did not, and it was their right.



If you think I'm young and stupid and brainwashed then whatever but I know I've raised the grades of the girls that I tutor by two letters, and I know that the hiking trails around here are a little cleaner.


I don't think you are young and stupid, I am worried you might be one of the government shrills testing the waters to see how easy this will be to spoon feed to the brain dead masses however. Your arguments are very telling. I am not accusing, but this is how they work.



I know that for awhile the histology lab at the hospital had some extra help because of me, and I know that the website I created to help students from my town with homework questions will be put to good use. There are volunteer positions that I've applied for that have been overapplied for and I'm MAD that I can't volunteer at some of them.


Try to instill a sense of pride in them, make it seem like something to strive for. If we could only create two of you.



You complain about capitalism and materialism and then turn around and post things in this thread that are examples of how bad society is.


They turn around and express how sick and tired they are of having their rights and freedoms taken, and how scared they are for their children, the future and the America they once knew, that's the truth, don't twist it.




The question is, what happens if your kids don't realize that they need to help one another?


Then they will learn it elsewhere, because it takes a village right? Or they will learn it on their own, because despite our worst natures at times there is still something good inside of us.




IT'S NOT COMMUNISM


No it's communism, younger, softer brother, socialism. It's not freedom however, and it's not choice and that's all they need to know.


Go live somewhere else. Honestly. Be drafted. Then come back here crying about how unfair THAT was.


Why should they go live someplace else, because they don't want to give up their choices, their rights, their futures, their children's futures. The country was built on having those inalienable rights.



This is what we need. And it's people like you that are making things worse. It's not going to get better because clearly the helpful people who realize how bad things are, how many jobs need to be done for different places that just don't have the money to pay but make such a big difference, the things that need to be done to keep our environment healthy, are in the minority.


They are not making things worst, they are taking a stand, finally. Probably too late, but finally they are waking up. How dare you try to put them back to sleep, or guilt them into giving up what is their right?

Yeah it will get better, just like Germany got better, but for the victims of that society it did not get better. You had two sets of people, one set living the dream, the Fatherland, the wonderful society. The other set, taken away, and I don't just mean the Jews, I mean the good citizens who spoke out, who realised something was wrong, it did not get better for them. It never get's better for good people of conscience. It doesn't work like that. We always suffer during these times. It's history.

Funny how we are conveniently in a depression, and how time like this, make this type of medicine just that much easier to swallow. Had they tried this a few months ago before the melt down, more people would be speaking out, but now they are more receptive, just like in Germany.




I'm so sick of listening to this garbage. Honestly. I don't know if you all think I've been brainwashed or what but I'm pretty sure it's the other way around.


You are sick of listening to this garbage, get a grip. We are sick and tired of watching rights, and freedoms taken away. For the awake population, we are sick of watching history repeat, and not having people wake up, while trying to consistently warn them of the times that we are living in, that is what we are afraid of. Add the fear for their children that some of these people have, a fear that I feel is healthy and justified. That's what many are sick of.

I am pretty sure you are trying to brainwash them, and manipulate them, but there will be no takers today.



But whatever, don't read my response, keep commenting the same selfish ignorance.


Ok, because that's what's called a choice. I will take that option every time.



It's perfectly fine when you guys are all elderly or have cancer from the problems with the environment (NOT from doctors or vaccines or chemtrails) or whatever and my generation is left with this disgusting mess.


All this because they didn't volunteer? I would think most of those other problems are caused by a system that is corrupted and no amount of volunteering is going to fix that. The disgusting mess was not caused by people not volunteering. It was caused by people sitting back and being sheep. Not standing up for their rights, and the rights of others, not helping each other in the true way we need to. By staying asleep when they needed to be awake, that's what caused this mess, but it was not due to a lack of volunteering.



No fossil fuels, no forests, no resources. Just warfare for survival. It's totally fine. We won't have any other option because today right now nobody wants to donate a few hours of their time to try and prevent a catastrophe of selfish, materialistic thinking.


What are you talking about? Volunteering will change all that will it? I rather thought the things that will change that is, waking up, standing up, and getting rid of the corruption and greed that destroys, that's why we don't have forests and resources. That's the truth.


[edit on 21-4-2009 by Harassment101]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:07 PM
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We voted in representatives to vote on these things for us. The US is a republic.

Honestly, I'm tired of this whole "government for the people and by the people" talk. I don't want the general population in charge because the US is full of morons.

I say we destroy the constitution and start over. This whole system is completely outdated.

And another thing....
Why is it that all I see on this site now are people worshipping fox news and Glenn Beck? Before the election, we were all praising Keith Olberman and MSNBC. What gives people??


Nice. Real nice. The 'morons' voted the ubermorons into office. I guess I'm a moron too. Yeas, I voted for Bush. And yet, unlike whomever you were talking about in the above quote, I soundly criticized Bush. I always thought Keith Olberman was a loser and a joke, and MSNBC was garbage. Glenn Beck, personaly, I think he's funnier than hell!
And as for trashing the Constitution, shut up. Yeah, you have the right to free speech, but there is nothing in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that gives you the right for stating something that moronic.
I happen to believe in it. I happen to have served my country to defend it. And I've had friends DIE doing just that. How dare you treat such an important document so trivially!!!
As to this thread, it'll be a cold day in hell before MY child wears an Obama-brownshirt uniform.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Ravenshadow you seem like a good person and your heart is in the right place but, are you really listening to yourself? "you should do the right thing or get in trouble" (?!) That is not freedom. But that is also not the point i'm making here. The question isn't whether or not in theory this is going to help people or parks or whatever. It will in THEORY. But you have to look what source this is all coming from. Do your research and open your eyes to the fact that NOTHING the government does is for our good. They only do things to benefit the ones that got them there in the first place. Period. So in THEORY this may seem like a good thing but there is a method to their madness and this is only the beginning. If you are only doing this because you got swept away in the obama mania don't worry, your not alone. But you have to think for yourself. Only you can. Volunteer if you want I think it's great. But when you get that family I think you are going to be very very disappointed with what they have in store for your children.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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I don't understand why community service is so bad.

Its okay to sit on your a** and play World of Warcraft, PS3 and XBOX360 all day and surf AboveTopSecret, but heaven forbid someone ask you to pitch in and help better our communities! Anything that impedes on your right to be lazy or exploit another person for profit has to be evil!

I never saw it before, but now I see what foreigners mean when they say that many Americans are like spoiled selfish children.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:15 PM
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No fossil fuels, no forests, no resources. Just warfare for survival. It's totally fine. We won't have any other option because today right now nobody wants to donate a few hours of their time to try and prevent a catastrophe of selfish, materialistic thinking.


With the middle class being eliminated, that's why people are turning to welfare for survival. Corporate greed. They get bonuses for doing a bad job running the financial institutions and hard working people, get their homes repossessed and get booted onto the streets, that's what's causing this, and a call to service will never fix this problem. It will just mask what is wrong, what is being orchestrated, so that we come to this solution. It's been problem, reaction, solution all along, getting us all to this point. That's the real cause.

There is always other options, that's why we have choice. The Hegelian dialect version would like us to think that we only have one choice or the other, but the truth is there are more choices, we do not have to be locked in like this if we do not want to be, but most people do not realise this and so get stuck with one choice or another, and never look for other options.

So by volunteering we are going to prevent catastrophes now? I don't think so. Only by waking up to what's really wrong with society and addressing those issues, will be truly make a change, and that does not involve me giving my time, or anyone else giving theirs. However if people do want to volunteer and give their time, there is nothing wrong with that either, but let's be realistic, this will not fix the problems of the world. The problems that have been designed, manufactured to bring us to this end, so that these lack of choices would be our only choices.

Let's not twist this.






If that's Communism, whatever. I'm a Communist. Throw rocks at my face and beat me to the ground and call me in 50 years when things are even worse.

[edit on 4/21/2009 by ravenshadow13]


Great you admit it, admitting it is the first stage to getting help. Although I don't think having communist views or socialist views means you need help, but when you start to inflict those views on others then that's where things change.

Well it's actually traditionally been the other way around, with the communist beating, and torturing those who do not agree with them, who do not toe line with the state. Just so we have that clear.

Things will get worst, because people get sucked into stupid issues like this, bargaining away what should be an inherent freedom. Instead of looking into the real issues, instead of waking up and addressing what is really wrong. Until people stop sleeping, wake up, face the reality of what is truly wrong with society, the systemic corrupt, the manipulations that get us to these places, things will continue to get worst, that part is at least correct, but it will not be because we did not volunteer.


My spelling and grammar was not checked before posting, the last three threads, so don't judge me by that alone.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Harassment101]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Harassment101]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by itinerantseeker
 


Isn't it funny that I have studied the Constitution and the amendments, American Government, and US and World History.

I kind of think that it's more important that people aren't starving or having trouble with their businesses or that the environment is clean and that it is safe to live here.

But you're right that's just so selfish and ignorant of me. Of course, I'm 18, what do I know about the place I want to live in when I have a family? Absolutely nothing. I might as well go live under a rock.



And I've studied those things as well, and still keep on top of it. But in my opinion your posts are coming across as very much against what our constitution and our history stood for. No body is saying volunteering or helping people is bad, what you are failing to understand is that people aren't happy with not only the possiblity of them having to perform Mandatory service and worse their own children having to do it. What just came out now is a first step towards that, and people are very concerned at what can be done further to it. I remember reading on Obamas website, back when he was still campaigning, is that he wanted it to be mandated. But then from what I heard they changed the wording of it because he was getting similar responses like there is here. But that doesn't mean he dropped the goal. Freedoms are being taken away all the time, this would be a major one, because once they force people to serve the government, they can do anything without pretense.

You've also mentioned that this is better than the draft. It would, but you really think that would stop the government from drafting people into the military? I wouldn't be surprised if it's just around the corner. Plus there's the mention of the civilian military, that'll start off as volunteer probably but then it'll eventually become a requirement. I do agree, it's important that people arent' starving and having problems with their businesses, but why are people starving in a country that considers itself the richest and the best? I was once homeless myself, but I crawled out of it and I did it without someone handing me a free lunch. Now the last part of your post is sounding childish. I didn't say you were selfish, I called you arrogant and smug, because that's how your posts come across to me.

You make sure you let everyone know that you are a great person because you volunteer and make a difference and that everybody else is selfish. Being that you are young, I'll give you some slack, because me nor anyone else has said what you doing is a bad thing. In fact that's great that you have brought it upon youself to do these things, and I did say your heart is in the right place. You just don't need to be putting others down because they choose not to. People are more worried about taking care of themselves, not because they are selfish, but because they have fallen on hard times themselves. Right now you are all for this mandated service, and you might even like it, but when your own life has taken off, you most likely will think differently. You won't find it as enjoyable when you are made to help people. Wouldn't you want someone doing community service that actually wants to be there and enjoying it as opposed to someone who has to be there and will make sure everyone knows it?

[edit on 21-4-2009 by itinerantseeker]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by itinerantseeker]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by DJM8507
I don't understand why community service is so bad.

Its okay to sit on your a** and play World of Warcraft, PS3 and XBOX360 all day and surf AboveTopSecret, but heaven forbid someone ask you to pitch in and help better our communities! Anything that impedes on your right to be lazy or exploit another person for profit has to be evil!

I never saw it before, but now I see what foreigners mean when they say that many Americans are like spoiled selfish children.


Community service in, and of itself isn't bad if it's done of the persons own volition. If it is required by law, it's no longer community service, it becomes community slavery.

Also, who cares what the foreigners think? I couldn't care less what some Frenchie, Kraut, Limey, Ivan, or anybody else thinks. They are jealous of the people in the United States because they look at us, and realize how much freedom they have given up. To care what they think leads us to tear ourselves down to their level.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by DJM8507
I don't understand why community service is so bad.

Its okay to sit on your a** and play World of Warcraft, PS3 and XBOX360 all day and surf AboveTopSecret, but heaven forbid someone ask you to pitch in and help better our communities! Anything that impedes on your right to be lazy or exploit another person for profit has to be evil!

I never saw it before, but now I see what foreigners mean when they say that many Americans are like spoiled selfish children.


It's not community service when you are coerced into doing such. I don't care WHAT you try to color this as it's forced work.

Way back in the 80's when I was stationed overseas, there was a sayin g out of old communist Russia, that there was 'zero' unemployment because everyone had a job, some were spying on neighbors some just swept their sidewalks, but they were all 'employed'.

Sound familiar?


You should also spend more time talking to these foreigners. If they stereo-type so easily, what are THEIR political leanings? Do they happen to have a job at MSNBC? NY Times?



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by DJM8507
I don't understand why community service is so bad.

Its okay to sit on your a** and play World of Warcraft, PS3 and XBOX360 all day and surf AboveTopSecret, but heaven forbid someone ask you to pitch in and help better our communities! Anything that impedes on your right to be lazy or exploit another person for profit has to be evil!

I never saw it before, but now I see what foreigners mean when they say that many Americans are like spoiled selfish children.


Please read the posts of the opinions given. I think it has been established what the issue is on this thread. As for the opinions of foreigners, well I could care less what they think, they don't like Americans or this country, then don't come here. But then again, they are fed B.S about us from their governments. Everytime I go overseas, or meet someone from a different country, they are actually surprised how likeable we are, but at least that's just been my experience.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13

You're going to have a choice for what volunteer work you want to do. And it's still better than a draft. Americans don't have choices for lots of other things, and this isn't even a big deal.


How about a choice of none of the above. How about a choice of freedom. That's better than being drafted or volunteering. Freedom is my choice.



Almost all high schools DO have a graduation requirement of volunteer hours and most colleges do as well, volunteering or interning.


I must have missed that. I guess I just had too many choices. I am now spoiled. I like spoiled. I will hang on to that. Freedom, choices, yes I like those options.




Honestly, whatever. There is a choice. Do what's right, or get in trouble. That's how it should be. If there's no incentive, no one would want to help, especially adults who are busy with their jobs and families.


So we get to the heart of it. If there is no incentive, that incentive you speak of is the forced part that people are getting at. See you do get that. That's not true. Some like me will want to help, but the point is, people should have a choice, and when they are forced to help, that's not helping, and it's not choice, it's force. That's not right.



Eating meat is personal.


So is helping out others.



It helps the animals, hurts the meat companies, and helps you. Volunteering directly helps other Americans, and in a time of need, that's important.


It will only help others if you are willing. Take away the willing and you will create a sick, slave society, that does not think, but acts out of force, guilt and indoctrination, not good, not cool, not right.



Religion is also personal.


Volunteering is personal, it's a personal choice, and it is not something that should be forced or mandated, because then it should be called something else such as a mandatory call to service. That would be more accurate.




And dating is personal, even though I do date. I also have a social life. And both my boyfriend and my friends volunteer.


Yes and you have a choice to do these things. If you did not have a choice and were forced, it would be a very different story.



I didn't think so many people had an issue with it. It's not like deciding whether or not to shave your legs. It's deciding whether or not to make a difference.


The difference is freedom. The issue is choice.


Being vegetarian makes a difference, but not as much as being vegan as well and not wearing leather or fur. But feeding people who are having trouble paying bills is a big difference that more people should care about. And it should be necessary to do things like that.


It's a difference if you do it with a willing spirit. The same as praying vs being forced to pray. Volunteering and helping others needs to be done in the same spirit and if it's not, then it should be called something else.



If people don't want themselves or their family near this, when bills get passed (which they won't, because of people in congress who will no doubt take your stance) then they can leave or stay. That's a choice. How ironic.


Are you joking. The people in Congress who took the stance to give how many billions of dollars away, so that future generations could be poor and in servitude, that Congress that stood for the people at the first attempt to pass that bailout, only to fail the people at the second attempt and left the next several generations damned to pay billions that was not needed, so that wall street and the like could be rewarded for mismanagement and so that the people could be manipulated towards this current goal. That same congress?


They did not fight for the people than, on that day, I don't see that they will fight for the people any differently.

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Harassment101]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by DJM8507

I never saw it before, but now I see what foreigners mean when they say that many Americans are like spoiled selfish children.


If this really was about being spoiled lazy children, I might agree with you, but it's not, it's about so much more than that. This is about having choices, not just for themselves but for their childen. Not being told what to think.

If they want to hand out posters and get the community spirit going, then great, restore America via choice, pride, and freedom, the foundations some parts of the country was built on, but when you take these away, you take away freedom, and choice and that is what this is about.

I think lot's of people are in favor of helping out, but not out of fear, manipulation, or twisted logic.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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For those of you that don't see a problem with the Obama youth brigade (or whatever they are going to call this new nazi movement) I want all of you to type 'I love killing baby kitten".

You type every day, you use the letters in these words every day. So it's no big deal. Right?
Just do it.
Now!
I am not looking for volunteers, I am now TELLING you what to type. C'mon, you were going to type ANYWAY so whats the big deal?

Type it. Type the damn words, ONLY because I told you to.

Do it now.

Or you will be punished for NOT doing what I told you to do.

Have you done it yet? If not, you will be reported and punished.

Type the f%$#ing words now!!!

Oh, and by the way, wear these nice brown 'uniforms' that I'll buy for you.




posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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I literally want to bash my head against the wall here in the office I work at. People keep asking why others think voluteering is bad, why community service is bad?! THOSE THINGS ARE NOT BAD IT'S THE FACT THAT AMERICANS ARE GOING TO BE FORCED TO "VOLUNTEER" TO DO VOLUNTEER WORKb]

Raven, how dare you call people selfish and lazy when you don't even know them!!!! You are only 18, most of the people on this website have been through more than you, sacrificed more than you, and worked harder than you will ever imagine, even with all your volunteer work. Get off your stupid high horse and actually read AND COMPREHEND what other are trying to tell you. Everyone is going around in circles trying to explain this to you but you are too thick headed to understand. Your smug arrogance will get you nowhere. You think the slaves should have been forced into slavery because it helped farmers with their land and homes? You think because they tried to get away from "helping" their masters they should have been punished? Give me a break. Yeah you studied all that history and American Government stuff. So did I...in high school, which is where I guess you learned it to, being 18 and all. That is NOT the greatest place to learn about our history and government.

A mandatory volunteer bill should never be passed. When volunteering becomes mandatory it is no longer volunteering, it is slavery, as others have posted. I wish some people would get that through their thick skulls.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Why aren't you typing?

Your husband/wfe/boyfriend/girlfriend/lover will lose their jobs if you don't type what I told you to type.

Dammit! I'm tired of waiting.

I am the government.
I am smart.
You are stupid and weak.
Just type what I told you to type and I will take care of you.

But if you do it wrong, or late, then I will punish you.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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yuck yuck. I'm glad my kids are almost grown. This is unheard of and has connotations of forced slavery and subjects our children to more subjective ways of thinking and persuasion.

I would fight it tooth and nail every step if they had any intentions of requiring my children to participate.

I want only one thing from the goshdarned freaking government and that's to get OUT of my life. You guys can't even balance a checkbook, and you want to solicit my children for volunteer civil service?? You're freaking nuts! Wacko.

Secure the borders! I'm tired of paying taxes for 30 million illegal immigrants. Investigate yourselves...that'll take a decade or two knowing the level of corruption that currently exists. Balance the budgets. Eliminate the federal reserve and establish a national credit program for loans. Ban goldman sachs to Cuba.

Well, you get my drift. Some would say I'm tinfoilish, but I've been telling folks for years that where we are headed....you will not believe. And its unfolding right before my eyes.

Seig Heil Obama!



[edit on 21-4-2009 by allclear]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by allclear]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Harassment101
 



Eating meat is personal. It helps the animals, hurts the meat companies, and helps you. Volunteering directly helps other Americans, and in a time of need, that's important.

Religion is also personal.

And dating is personal, even though I do date. I also have a social life. And both my boyfriend and my friends volunteer. I didn't think so many people had an issue with it. It's not like deciding whether or not to shave your legs. It's deciding whether or not to make a difference. Being vegetarian makes a difference, but not as much as being vegan as well and not wearing leather or fur. But feeding people who are having trouble paying bills is a big difference that more people should care about. And it should be necessary to do things like that.



This is the heart of the matter for me. It seems as if your saying that although not eating meat is helpful, it is not as important as things you value, such as feeding people. Hence, feeding people should be mandatory for everyone, but being vegetarian shouldn't be.

The problem is who gets to decide which of these values is more important? You claim helping people is more important than animals, but lets ask the good folks at PETA (whom I hate btw). Everyone has different values, and thats what makes our country great. But to force those values onto others is asinine. You only breed contempt for the very values you are trying to instill in people. Also, you run the risk of the values being forced inevitably becoming perverse and corrupt, as pointed out in the Hitler youth example.

I will chose my own values in life, and will not listen to you or my government tell me that I should be forced to do something because you have deemed it most important. As people have been saying on here, it is about freedom and choice, our liberty.

As someone who has studied US history, perhaps this will sound familiar:

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! Patrick Henry



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13
I'm frustrated with some responses so I will continue with the bullet technique.

1. If you think other people should volunteer but you don't want to yourself, ask yourself why.


I may have to read the thread again - but I haven't seen anyone say they don't want to VOLUNTEER. However what we are talking about is not VOLUNTEERISM. There is a HUGE difference between volunteering to do something and being told/made to do something.




2. It's better to have mandatory volunteering requirements than mandatory military service. And no, I don't things are moving in that direction.


These two don't even belong on the same thread. We are talking about mandatory service to the "community" - NOT voluntary. Mandatory. Military service is a whole 'nother topic. They are not one in the same.




3. Why wouldn't you feel better helping your country directly through volunteering, than through indirect means like taxes? I would think people would be complaining more about that. It's the same thing, only better.


Again, this thread is not about VOLUNTEERING. Read the definition [again] of what volunteer means. And again, why throw in another topic? Mandatory service vs. paying taxes? We are talking about mandatory service. Not taxes. It is not the same thing. And it is not better.

LESS GOVERNMENT IN OUR LIVES. That is what is better. I don't want some idiot in the government telling ME how to live my life. They already have enough control in telling me how to live. And its wrong. I would think you as a human being would feel the same. But I think there are actually many people out there that love to be controlled and told what to do. Not me.




4. I do believe that everyone volunteers somehow. And if you don't, then you should. I've said it before. You do lots of things that you don't want to do already because the government says so. This one is actually HELPFUL.


Really, who are you or anyone to tell others what we should do. If I (or anyone) wants to VOLUNTEER, that is my business. If you want to VOLUNTEER, go for it, that is your business. But don't you force your volunteerism on me or anyone else. CHOICE. We should all have it. Some will make bad decisions. Some will make good. But at least at the end of the day we are FREE TO CHOOSE how to live.

Is volunteering a good thing? Absolutely! But I think it is VERY wrong to force people to do it. You can not force morality on a person. I mean, yes, you can make laws. But you are not changing the person. You are just creating a robot.



5. Some of you have said you want a better place, without this new thing, for your grandkids and kids. I'm pretty sure that you should be encouraging your family to volunteer and to help out. I don't know why you wouldn't do that. This is only an issue about being "forced to" for people who for some reason don't do it already. For the people who are doing what they morally should by helping out, it's not even a problem. Especially since many countries have mandatory draft. Would you rather have THAT for your kids and grandkids?


Key words: "encouraging" "volunteer" "help out". All CHOICES that every human being should be allowed to make without the government forcing us to. And again, military draft has nothing to do with this topic. It is not an either or. Two different topics. We are talking of "volunteer" vs. "mandatory".

For my kids. I want CHOICE AND FREEDOM not mandatory this or that by the government.



6. It's not hard to volunteer. It doesn't cost money. If you wanted you could just start a website or work for a website or edit for free or tutor online or something like that, you could do it from the same chair or couch that you access ATS from, it wouldn't take a ton of time, and you would be helping. Plus, if you're religious, most churches fund volunteer activities and relief programs ANYWAY. If you hike or metal detect and follow rules of cleaning up litter that you find, that helps. Or just tutor a kid. Or make sandwiches for a soup kitchen. I mean, I guess I won't understand what the huge issue is.


The HUGE issues is MORE government in our lives which means less freedom and the ability to live our lives how we choose and how we believe is best for us.



Yes the government is making you do it, and if you don't want to, you're mad. But the government makes you do lots of things you don't want to do, you're kind of just complaining anyway. This is going to be really helpful and it's something that we should all do for each other anyway if you follow the TRUE American spirit and work to improve our country and our lives. If you think the government is a waste and you're super right-wing or mad at Obama anyway or perhaps really just lazy or selfish, then yeah you will be upset and there's nothing I can say or do to change your mind. I know this is a good thing.





Besides, the act is just going to get Congress to work on it. Specifications still need to be voted on, and I think you're all getting scared for nothing. Or maybe, again, just selfish.

It's not about being "instructed." And if you think it is, go live in another country and tell me that it's better. And again most schools require students to volunteer anyway.


It is absolutely wrong to call anyone here who disagrees with the almighty Obama and his ridiculous choices - selfish. Again, the issues is "volunteer" vs. "mandatory". They are 2 different concepts. This thing Obama wants is not volunteerism. I don't understand why this is so hard to see.

If you want the government more in your life, fine. Maybe you should move to China. They are all about control and taking away freedoms.
But I am not moving. And I want my freedom and the choice to live my life how I see fit. And yes, there are many things I already think are wrong. But that doesn't mean we should keep on throwing the government even more into our lives. In fact, we should be screaming at the top of lungs and doing whatever we can to make sure we have LESS government in our lives.




If you think I'm young and stupid and brainwashed then whatever but I know I've raised the grades of the girls that I tutor by two letters, and I know that the hiking trails around here are a little cleaner. I know that for awhile the histology lab at the hospital had some extra help because of me, and I know that the website I created to help students from my town with homework questions will be put to good use. There are volunteer positions that I've applied for that have been overapplied for and I'm MAD that I can't volunteer at some of them.


I don't think you are stupid. I think you are a little naive and haven't lived long enough to realize how much our country has changed since before you were born. We have LESS freedom and MORE government in our lives. NOT GOOD. The more the government interferes in our lives the worse our country gets. This is what I have seen in 30+ years of life here!



You complain about capitalism and materialism and then turn around and post things in this thread that are examples of how bad society is.


I dont complain about either. I love both and it sucks that people want that taken away from me and others. More government in our lives is very very bad. Because at the end of the day, they do not have our best interest at heart.



The question is, what happens if your kids don't realize that they need to help one another?

IT'S NOT COMMUNISM

Go live somewhere else. Honestly. Be drafted. Then come back here crying about how unfair THAT was.



Why should I have to go live somewhere else? lol How come you dont go live in China or some other country where the government has complete control?

I have in fact traveled outside the US many times. I still prefer the freedoms I have HERE - though they are being taken away more and more - thanks to those who WANT us to be controlled by the government. I certainly am not voting for this dimwits into office!

Have you ever lived or visited other countries? I dont mean on vacation. I mean, have you gone and lived amongst other cultures and see how they live then come back here and compare? Maybe you should try it. Go visit a 3rd world country or China. Then come back and tell me how much better they all have it then us




I'm so sick of listening to this garbage. Honestly. I don't know if you all think I've been brainwashed or what but I'm pretty sure it's the other way around.

[edit on 4/21/2009 by ravenshadow13]


LOL. Ah yes. After 30+ years of living in a free country, visiting other countries, I am now brainwashed for wanting LESS government and MORE freedom.
Ok then.


Im actually pretty sick of listening to the garbage of people wanting to be controlled by the government. It boggles my mind.

And none of this is to attack you. It is attacking a philosphy.

The key issue here is: volunteer vs. mandatory and freedom vs. control.


[edit on 4/21/2009 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 10:29 PM
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No one has typed what I told them to type.

Maybe, just maybe they got the hint.

I sure as hell hope so.

Our country is going down the tubes faster than Madonna at an African daycare, and these weasels are saying awww its ok.

Plus their moronic arguements about "You never said anything when Bush was president" is getting old too.

It's called Google idiots.

Just look up all that was said by conservstives for the last two years.

Keep the faith!



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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Boss, I mean Mr. President I just got a call from the hospital and the doctor is saying my mom wont make it another hour or so. I know I just got here for my mandated 2 hours of volunteering but may I go to the hospital and be with my mom as she passes.

“GET BACK TO WORK YOU LEAVE WHEN I TELL YOU TO LEAVE.”

My choice here is to deal with the consequences of leaving my volunteer position. Granted this scenario may be way overblown, but I can honestly see something like this happening. Would you really rather be serving your community like a good little boy or girl scout. Or be with your mother one last time.



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