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Obama Will Sign GIVE ACT Into Law Today!

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posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 09:58 PM
reply to post by Harassment101

Good post. I want to single out one of Obama's quotes:

For college students, I have proposed an annual American Opportunity Tax Credit of $4,000. To receive this credit, we’ll require 100 hours of public service. You invest in America, and America invests in you -

That works out to $40 per hour for "service". Guess who pays that? Well,of course, we know the answer- the TAXPAYERS pay $40 per hour for the government to have youths perform what the government dictates is service.

Here is an example of what Obama calls a service agency- ACORN.
Pay henchmen $40 an hour to register people to vote who aren't eligible to vote, and tell them how to vote.
Enough said.

posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:01 PM
From H.R. 1444


(5) The effect on the Nation, on those who serve, and on the families of those who serve, if all individuals in the United States were expected to perform national service or were required to perform a certain amount of national service.

(6) Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.

(7) The need for a public service academy, a 4-year institution that offers a federally funded undergraduate education with a focus on training future public sector leaders.

(8) The means to develop awareness of national service and volunteer opportunities at a young age by creating, expanding, and promoting service options for primary and secondary school students and by raising awareness of existing incentives.

(9) The effectiveness of establishing a training program on college campuses to recruit and educate college students for national service.

(10) The effect on United States diplomacy and foreign policy interests of expanding service opportunities abroad, such as the Peace Corps, and the degree of need and capacity abroad for an expansion.

There is nothing American or Free about this. Mandatory service for children? Primary and Secondary schools? Where have we seen this before? Better start reading your child's history books. Something tells me all of modern history is about to get a rewrite.

I don't think it could be clearer this is an attempt to usurp private charities and as well as an attempt by the Fed to take over the schooling of our children completely.

They eliminated the vouchers in DC even though I don't see Obama's kids in Public School, do you? A pattern is forming.

He is opposed to our children attending public school. He has eliminated the tax deduction for giving to charities by those who support them with the most. This MANADATORY SERVICE has been a continual Mantra throughout Obama's speeches over the last couple of years.

Orwell's vision is nearly complete. Expect a bastardized Parlimentary System to be proposed shortly and get ready to stand in line for a roll of toilet paper.

When the economy gets bad enough we will cooperate like good little sheep and they know that. Look how China keeps its people in line. Only the elite get to have fair income or life. I'm not one of the elite, who I know where this is headed for me.

posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:17 PM

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by Harassment101

Good post. I want to single out one of Obama's quotes:

For college students, I have proposed an annual American Opportunity Tax Credit of $4,000. To receive this credit, we’ll require 100 hours of public service. You invest in America, and America invests in you -

That works out to $40 per hour for "service". Guess who pays that? Well,of course, we know the answer- the TAXPAYERS pay $40 per hour for the government to have youths perform what the government dictates is service.

Here is an example of what Obama calls a service agency- ACORN.
Pay henchmen $40 an hour to register people to vote who aren't eligible to vote, and tell them how to vote.
Enough said.

I think some of these stimulus bills are going to pay for a lot of this. When he gave the speach a call to service, people kept asking, but where is the money going to come from for all these plans, but the plans were all laid out and waiting and the true nature of this is starting to show itself. People refuse to believe that what happening in Hitler's Germany could happen here, but it is, bit by bit.

With Hitler's Germany you can't blame them, because they had nothing to fall back on, that I know of to say, hey this has happened before, but we have a lot of history to say this is how it happened, these are the steps and yet people refuse to believe it, or learn from it, and so we are all doomed to repete it.

That $40.00 will pay for more than that, it will pay for loyaltiy and compliance. It will pay for them to inform on those who are not going along with this.

America has created a surveillance society and you are going to start to feel the effects of it, this is nothing new.

You can’t trust anyone these days – and it’s no accident. Children turn their parents into the police on two-bit drug charges. Classmates tattle on one another to school officials. Friends rat each other out to the authorities. Political advocacy groups report suspected dissidents to the FBI. Employers hire undercover agents to spy on workers. Lawyers are forced to report clients who pay with cash to law enforcement agencies.
Welcome to Snitch Culture, a surveillance society far more insidious and pervasive than anything George Orwell ever imagined. Elected officials from both political parties have spent decades building a vast domestic intelligence network to track every man, woman and child.
* The government’s new high-tech surveillance systems, including the FBI’s Carnivore Internet monitoring computer and the National Security Agency’s spy- in-the-sky, ECHELON.
* The government’s efforts to turn America’s children into informants with sophisticated snitch programs in the public schools, including the coming national WAVE American tip line.
* How informants are fueling the growing assets forfeiture scandal.
* How the War on Drugs uses informants to oppress inner city blacks.
* The government’s successful infiltration of the growing Anti-Globalization Movement.
* The role of private informant networks through history, from the early prohibition movements to the anti-Communist superpatriot groups of the 1950s to the so-called civil rights watchdog organizations of today.

Every society that is going to bring about changes like this, have always created an informant structure first, before any of the changes could take place.

Hilter did this, the Stasi, etc, and America has done this, but the idea is to understand the degree to which this has already been done, till you understand the extent of the informant structure in society and the role it will play in this, you will not understand what you are up against, or why these resistances fail.

posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:32 PM
reply to post by Blaine91555

When the economy gets bad enough we will cooperate like good little sheep and they know that. Look how China keeps its people in line. Only the elite get to have fair income or life. I'm not one of the elite, who I know where this is headed for me.

History has shown, though, that when a few control the many, eventually the many rise up, and overthrow the few. The French Revolution, the Roman Empire, the Nazis, the old USSR, are but a few examples of fallen empires.

I have faith that ultimately, this attempt at empire will also fail.

posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 11:08 PM
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

I sure hope so. At my age though, I'll live through the bad part just when I need it the least.

The pieces of the puzzle are coming together to fast. I think Obama want's this for him, under his control. I'm starting to think he is the one who has no intention of stepping down, so it has to happen fast. I think this is likely the best opportunity for them to come along in a long time.

Can you imagine Americans willingly letting the State conscript their young children into mandatory service? This is also a move by the State to take Parents and Parents rights out of the equation. The sad part is, they will believe in their meglamaniacal wisdom they are helping us. How could these Harvard elitists ever understand the people they serve or should I say lord over.

I came from poverty into the Middle Class and I have to remind myself every day to always see the world through others eyes before I judge. These people no longer care what others lives, dreams and wishes are because they are in their own minds superior.

Our wants and dreams are of no consequence to these people; We Bible thumping, gun toting Neanderthals. We who built this country. We who serve their meals and build there stately buildings and mansions. A garbage man contributes more to society and my needs than they ever will. They suck the life out of us and then expect us to serve with a smile.

posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 11:40 PM
I hope to see Obama the mannequin and his ventriloquist puppet master Rahm Emanuel with their wives and kids, out there volunteering to scrub toilets in skid row shelters. Of course Rahm’s family may be exempt from this voluntary / mandatory (now there’s a paradox) service, since they’re dual Israeli-U.S.citizens. Or is that U.S-Israeli citizens? I guess it depends where your true allegiance lies.

Don’t worry I’ll be volunteering too. I plan to get some spray paint and start tagging the city with anti-government graffiti. I will also be passing out flyers to K-12 students, letting them know that the HR2857 GIVE Act will be infringing on their free will, and that the best years of their lives are already being squandered thanks to a tyrannical government that requires the mandatory incarceration of all children, within an archaic public school system.

HR2857 GIVE Act is nothing more than a mechanism of involuntary servitude designed by an oppressive government, requiring a people to labor against their will for the benefit of a few fat greedy money masters.

Peace on Earth!

[edit on 23-4-2009 by seasoul]

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 02:07 AM
So, when it comes time:

Just say no.

You really think they can make us all do this is we simply say we don't want to?

I didn't vote for this bill/law... did you?

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 02:38 AM
Society is breaking up. We should have surplus of volounteers, young people who want to help others.

Instead president must force young people to help others.
This is morale crisis at it's peak

I'm not from USA and at first was thinking that Obama was a fraud. Same crap as Reagan, Bush family, Clinton....
But as time passes by Barrack suprises me more and more. Now I'm thinking he just might be one of few special people. that cares about progress of nation on global level, not just elite few.

and for that poster with Obama with red star - socialism is not communism - capitalism is - in both systems elite few are rich. know that from example.

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 03:47 AM
Dinamo you are right on the spot

For everyone that is panicking around this and comparing to Hitler and everything.. Can you stop a little to think that not everything is good or bad? The Nazi regime was completely demonized, mostly because of their terribly bad actions..
But how do you think they conquest the confidence of the people in the first place? Hitler was democraticaly elected..
But do you think that everyone on Hitler government were "demons"?
There is good and bad everywhere.. and before starting the worst part of it, with their imperialism and world war 2, it made some good things, maybe including the child thing, that was later completely subverted.. Besides, kids didnt have a choice.. From what i can read, it was TOP-DOWN thing.. what kids would do was completely defined by the government..
As i understand Obama one (and as i already said) its BOTTOP-UP thing where it will be the local communities defining what they can do.. and they will have choices of what they want to do it..
This is nothing new in other parts of the world.. This type of thing exists in many countries (including Portugal.. not exactly that, but similar) and is not because of that that we obey the government and dont think, whatever..

So i say again, because your atitude is really bothering me, as i see this is a reaction to the our society falling, and you really cant open your eyes to it.. Its you that are not thinking outside the box! Thinking outside the box means seeing the bad and the good at same time.. And you can only see the bad.. I understand you.. i know what you think and its legit.. But ONLY after this stuff is completely defined.. This thread is therefore completely useless on the way it is going.. It was good to keep people informed

But it has degenerated in doom and gloom campaign without sense..

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 04:57 AM

Originally posted by jibeho
I think you misunderstood the portion of the bill regarding ACORN. There was an amendment in the bill that would have PREVENTED ACORN from receiving funds. That amendment was killed in Senate so therefore, they will now qualify for funding.

I suspect research on my part would have revealed that obviously i may have been too negative. Now we can just watch and see if the money ever gets to them...

ACORN is corrupt and is full of left wing extremists.

I choose left wing 'extremist' over right wing corporate fascist any day of the week but frankly i don't know what you base this accusation on. What has ACORN done , beside being guilty of being a progressive organization in country with a rabid right wing government, that is so 'terrible' in your opinion? What do you define as 'extremism'?

They are known to have a political agenda and they are clearly a partisan group.

Don't we all? How can a organization that defends the rights of minorities NOT have a political agenda? How many groups ( lobby groups especially) don't have overt or covert political agenda's? Isn't this like accusing a human being of breathing?

Despite what may be written in their charter. Groups like this are technically prohibited within the rules of this bill.

Then how did they get in? Can't the representatives read? Another 'left' wing conspiracy in a corporately owned government that just handed hundreds of billions of dollars to the banking elite? I suppose wall street is filled with 'liberals' as well?

Apparently, they are an exception to the rule. Hmmm...I wonder why. I expect to see ACORN members knocking on doors during next years census as well.

Perhaps they have just over their forty years existence proved themselves and are finally getting some official recognition despite the best efforts of the federal government?


posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 07:15 AM

Originally posted by HarlieQuinn
I literally want to bash my head against the wall here in the office I work at. People keep asking why others think voluteering is bad, why community service is bad?! THOSE THINGS ARE NOT BAD IT'S THE FACT THAT AMERICANS ARE GOING TO BE FORCED TO "VOLUNTEER" TO DO VOLUNTEER WORK

Actually this committee will discuss it but since there are already plenty of other legal loopholes ( and the draft) to conscript American citizens , or youth, with this is NOT news as much as it may eventually turn out to be formalization of previous loopholes&laws.

Raven, how dare you call people selfish and lazy when you don't even know them!!!!

How 'dare' you presume that she isn't in fact less lazy and selfish than all the people here who are so desperately afraid of having to do something that may perhaps not serve them as much as it does others?

You are only 18, most of the people on this website have been through more than you, sacrificed more than you, and worked harder than you will ever imagine, even with all your volunteer work.

Who's the one presuming facts not in evidence now? Military service ( something the mostly gun wielding American mob on ATS considers 'service' ) is NOT sacrifice or service to one's country when your country is terrorizing completely innocent people in nations that never threatened to or in fact attacked you. Lets not all jump on the bandwagon and presume what we like.

Get off your stupid high horse and actually read AND COMPREHEND what other are trying to tell you. Everyone is going around in circles trying to explain this to you but you are too thick headed to understand.

And maybe 'we' understand better than you think and just disagree that this is a subversive plot to completely change the social/economic scene in the US? In fact i don't think this program can come close to how much damage the military recruiters are doing all over the US in their attempts to find fresh meat to feed into the ever hungry US armed forces. Lets address the current fires first?

Your smug arrogance will get you nowhere.

Like it didn't get Clinton, Bush and Obama ( and practically ever other politician) into office? 'Smug arrogance' will get you far in this world as there are hundreds of thousands of honest hard working suckers born every minute for you manipulate or just outright exploit. In fact isn't any such a problem on her side largely as result of the American educational establishment? Where else would Americans get this high and mighty impression of themselves and 'their' country?

You think the slaves should have been forced into slavery because it helped farmers with their land and homes? You think because they tried to get away from "helping" their masters they should have been punished?

This wont be slavery, certainly not yet or any more than being forced to go to school is. I mean did you want to go to school and how much will the same parents who sent you there mind if you end up having to do community service? This wont be ANYWHERE on the radar of the average American parent and for good reason. As for people being pressed into slavery as i recall in recent times ( western imperial times) the majority were captured in tribal warfare here there and everywhere and then 'sold' to slave stations on the coast; if parents refuse to cooperate by sending their children to school the state will be mostly powerless to stop them.

Give me a break. Yeah you studied all that history and American Government stuff. So did high school, which is where I guess you learned it to, being 18 and all. That is NOT the greatest place to learn about our history and government.

And just to prove that i in fact like to agree whenever i can so i can not, and thus wont raise, objections here.

A mandatory volunteer bill should never be passed.

"The Army's refusal to release tens of thousands of soldiers who have completed their terms of service amounts to drafting them on the very day they fulfill their obligations. These men and women have already risked their lives. They should not have to risk them a second time through involuntary service, through being forced to stay in Iraq. This is a draft. A draft forces people to serve involuntarily."—Dennis Kucinich, December 31, 2003.

It's already happening in practice and i believe that if we investigate all the bills and ammendments that have been passed in the last eight years we WILL find material that could be employed to draft Americans for involuntary service far easier. Either way when did they start following the letter of the law closely enough to require what this bill may eventually lead to in schools?

I am just trying to point out that we can just as well put out the current fires before we create a panic about possible future one's.

When volunteering becomes mandatory it is no longer volunteering, it is slavery, as others have posted. I wish some people would get that through their thick skulls.

And yet in some of the oldest surviving cultures on earth service to the state and community, when it's required', is not only accepted but accepted by a a citizenry who have not succumbed to the corporate propaganda that collective action is 'bad' for the society in question. When all members of society have achieved the capability to cooperate in government and does so actively and without fail the state will be run by the people for the people. Individual and or independent action is very unlikely to yield anything but massive concentrations of wealth and the resulting power.


[edit on 23-4-2009 by StellarX]

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Jenna
Well, there is now an article about HR 1388 on yahoo.

National service bill to get Obama's signature today

Congress passed the bill last month with largely bipartisan support and Obama is seeking $1.1 billion to fund it next year. Some Republicans complain it is too costly and is an unnecessary intrusion by government into something Americans already do eagerly and in great numbers — helping their neighbors and communities.

One of the few times I side with the Republicans on something.

They also have a spiffy website going for it, and one for the kids too.

So you still buy the 2 party system??? So now the "Replublicans" are worried about our rights? Seriously?

How novel, now the "dems" who control the congress are the badguys and now the "republicans" are the badguys, lol.

It is all the same.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by Krypto69]

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:11 AM
reply to post by Dinamo

Society is breaking up. We should have surplus of volounteers, young people who want to help others.

That is really FUNNY coming from Croatia.

For those members not familiar with Croatian history in the 20th century, let me enlighten you, so you understand what Croatian volunteerism means.

First, during WWII, Croatians sided with Adolph Hitler, and Croatians freely helped the Nazis exterminate the Jews. The Croatians were as brutal as the Germans, and in fact, in many cases, much more so.

Now, some will say things have changed.
Well, the NY Times believes otherwise:

Pro-Nazi Rulers' Legacy Still Lingers for Croatia
At a souvenir stand in Zagreb's central market, glaring down over key rings, cigarette lighters and T-shirts, hang portraits of a firm-jawed man in military uniform. He is Ante Pavelic, who headed the pro-Nazi Government that ruled Croatia from 1941 to 1945.

When a photographer tried to take pictures of the souvenir stand one morning recently, he was quickly surrounded by thugs from the criminal syndicate that controls the market. Amid invective and threats, they forced the photographer to open his camera and turn over his film.

The episode reflects the combination of pride and embarrassment that many Croatian nationalists feel toward Pavelic's Government and the fascist Ustashe movement that he headed.

Because tens of thousands of Jews, Serbs and others were killed in Ustashe death camps, official rehabilitation of the Pavelic Government is not possible. Yet some Croats view the Ustashe as an essentially nationalist movement and recall that until Croatia broke away from Yugoslavia in 1991, the years of Ustashe rule were the only period of independence in Croatia's modern history. They believe that it is unfair to condemn the Ustashe years -- the word means rebels or insurgents -- as a purely evil period. Tudjman's Position Analyzed

Now on to Portugal:

Co-Opting Nazi Germany: Neutrality in Europe During World War II
By Jonathan Petropoulos

It is time for Switzerland, Sweden, Portugal and Spain to acknowledge that there were no truly neutral countries on the European continent during World War II. It is now time for those four nations to acknowledge that they were part of the Nazis' New Order and that they bear some responsibility for the tragic history of the Thirties and Forties.

Of course, we shouldn't leave out South Africa:

At least 12 people have been killed in the South African city of Johannesburg since Friday in a wave of violence directed at immigrants, police say.

Police have used tear gas and rubber bullets to try to stop gangs of armed youths from attacking foreigners and looting and burning their property.

First, under Aparteid, blacks were persecuted, then under black rule, whites were persecuted, now immigrants are persecuted.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
First, clean up your own cesspool, before you start making comments about what Americans should do.

We don't need your kind of "volunteerism".

Of course, you (Dinamo, StellarX and Picao84) approve of Obama's Give Act- with a Nazi and Fascist history, I would expect no less.

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:22 AM
This debate is going in circles at this point. At any rate it is an indicator toward how those who just don't want to see....can't (and what our schools are already producing). If something within you isn't adverse to the govt. telling you how to live your life, than IMO you have already given over part of your soul. Using the "the gov't already controls us....blah, blah, blah" excuse to justify them doing it more is just illogical, as is giving over your freedoms.

Blaine, thank you for posting 5-10 from the bill. If my blood wasn't curdling at the beginning it started when I hit number 5.

Just an anecdote...mostly aimed at the extremely naive 18 yo who thinks she knows everything already about life and the world:

I used to live on the fringe of the inner city. Crime was running rampant, my 8 yo watched a woman die after being shot and then saw it covered up in the news... My husband and I were concerned and ultimately rallied the community to start a blockwatch. It was amazing to come together weekly with people who just showed up because they cared about their community and wanted to do something about it. Within a year we had support of city officials, they visited our meetings, we hosted special days in the community to be visible. We promoted things like keeping dna samples of our children, bicycle saftey - things like that, had a citizen's patrol team that drove/walked the streets, a phone chain to report crime to each other as it was happening, got govt. funding from a program to help re-route the kids in trouble....etc. It was wonderful. The original President stepped down after 3 years to pursue something else and let someone else have a go at it. The new President started taking responsibility from one and assigning it to another...responsibilities that were taken on by each because they volunteered to do their respective duties. We moved. Within less than a year the group no longer exsisted.

Same people. Same community. Same problems and concerns.

For fear that some of you may not get the point I'll spell out what happened....a new leader saw himself as a chief and not a servant. Delegated responsibility that should have come from within each heart....destroyed everything that was initially creating true progress.

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:40 AM
Mandatory volunteerism. What an absurd notion to put these 2 words into a single paragraph never mind a single statement. This is reminding me more of the newspeak of 1984 all the time. Re-craft the meaning of words to change the culture over time.

It is just too absurd. This reality is less realist than my dream life some times.

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:47 AM
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

What i have to say to you: BIG LOL!!!

Portugal was under a dictature at the time.. We had a revolution to implement democracy in 1974.. We didnt like the government.. We didnt have to have some country to free us like you did to Iraq! We did it! We are not and never was NAZI! We are one of the less racist countries in the world.. We are known for our BIG hospitality towards everyone!

You know the movie Schindlers List? Portugal had also a guy that saved many many jews from concentration camps within the government.. Not from Germany.. But from France.. Those jews had got cover inside Portugal because he and many others working with him saved them with false birth certificates..

What Portugal and Spain did was in their right.. they played with both sides.. Alliance and Nazis.. This way they secured the safety of their people..

And guess what? America did help the NAZIs too!! Dont know the famous IBM case?? So go spread your stupid xenophoby somewhere else please..

Study a country history before making those claims..

The stuff in schools i talk about is after that time.. When i was kid.. I dont worship any leader neither have any "government is great" attitude! I see things for what they are! When government is wrong i say it is wrong! Go see threads created by me some months ago about some things portuguese government did that i dont like...

But that way you revealed what you are! Instead of contributing to the thread at hand with your opinions to beat mine on a "right way", you try to disregard other people opinions with their background making stupid claims

You are an extremist.. But well i should be used to it.. ATS is full of them..

And you do that because you know you cant negate what i say in other means.. Not that what you just said does..

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 11:55 AM

Originally posted by jibeho
The GIVE act does not technically make the act of service mandatory but it does serve to set up an undetermined curriculum within our schools.

Which will not lead to the shear evil suggested hear if the citizenry are made aware of what is already happening in our schools and what this might in the future enable.

It serves to create an open door of possibilities that I don't care for. I have cited key elements of this law in this thread and in many others.

Did you do the same with the patriot act and the host of oppressive legislation enacted by the 'Bush government'? Just asking as as far as i can see you seem to like including the word 'Obama' in your thread titles. Will you perhaps do us the favor of going back over the last few years to investigate similar bills enacted by the Bush led government to show that you understand that this is not a partisan issue and that both parties are largely animated by their corporate paymasters?

Perhaps then i could see this is anything more than a partisan attack on one of the few mostly progressive things the 'Obama government' is trying to implement?

Those who choose not to read the law are in for a rude awakening. Too many people don't even know that it exists.

That's the problem with ignorance and there is little that both of us can do but to discuss this issue and to arrive at a interpretation of what the Obama government ( or the corporations it's so generously rewarding) have in store for us? As it stands this thread have done little more than show just how fearful people are of the government that is supposed to be representing them; as if we have the option of doing away with the one institution where we can fight for representation on the national scene.

Whatever it is it is now official. How it ties into this law is beyond me.


`Sec. 601. Amtrak waste disposal. `
Sec. 602. Exchange program with countries in transition from totalitarianism to democracy.'.

It means , in my opinion, that relations with Cuba, North Korea ( to name the significant examples ) and a few others that were wrongly called totalitarian or 'terrorist' will slowly be normalized so that the attention of the US military can be shifted towards the middle east; there just isn't enough money to fight all the enemies the US national security state has willfully created.

So what do they actually plan to exchange with these countries? Some fresh faced American youth for some of your downtrodden youth?

I doubt they will exchange' fresh faced American youth ' with countries other than they mean to invade given that the word 'democracy' , in the imperial language, means that these countries are slowly opening the economic doors the US government mostly successfully kept firmly shut.

So yes, expect more American youth to be sent to get blown up in the Middle east region ( especially the 'Af-pak region ) in perpetuation of the same old imperial goals the US national security state tried to reach under the Bushes and the Clinton in between.

Amtrak waste disposal?? Any clues? I know Amtrak is subsidized by our govt. so I suppose that they could transport just about anything in those innocent looking "passenger" cars.

Well they have to get all the gun toting paranoid maniacs who just want to shoot government officials to the FEMA camps somehow; right?

But no, i don't know what that means...


posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 12:02 PM
reply to post by glad_to_be_His

Ok i understand what you say and your right.. But let me ask you something.. How was your childhood/teenage years?
Did you spend it playing PS3, Xbox360 whatever? Or did you spend time playing with your friends outside, talking to neighbours etc?

"Volunteering" (i prefer calling it engaging with the community, because you can volunteer to the army and the effect is not the same) is a sense that you gain by cooperating with others in your community (in real life.. not some stupid MMORPG).. If kids dont do it, and parents DONT MAKE THEM DO IT.. (look they bought them the PS3/Xbox360) someone has to.. or our society will fall apart.. I see that EVERYDAY.. Young people just wanna play.. That has to be reversed PERIOD.

And something that was not discussed here before, and maybe is important to the topic:
Why parents dont do their "jobs"? Because they are too occupied with their careers and/or work to provide what a child needs on a material sense instead of emotional one..

And Why is this like that? Because the efficiency that the FREE MARKET demands turned it like that! Im not advocating the end of the free market.. but maybe somethings have to change.. Less work hours for example.. This way parents could be tutoring their child more..

I hope i clarified better what people that have nothing against this idea (its not law yet).. Keep in mind that we dont AGREE with it.. we just have nothing against it YET!

posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 12:22 PM
experiencereply to post by Picao84

First off, my childhood or personal experience both has nothing and everything to do with this issue. This whole argument is really a simple debate over being allowed to keep and express your own free will. The way I see it there are simply two sides; those who want to keep it and those who want to take it/those who are so far gone that they will "willingly" give it up. This is no forum to debate the semantics of willingly give up free will but you get my point.

On the other hand personal experience has everything to do with this. The American mindset, although made up of human beings (mostly, hehe) is not the same as the Portugese mindset. We must have two distinct views of our world because our societies were distinctly different. I don't know much about Portugal (other than I would love to go there) so I won't pretend to be an authority. No amount of studying it would be able to give me the experience that you have. Likewise, I don't think someone not living here can completely understand the American mindset. No doubt you have educated yourself but if you haven't lived here, if your ancestors weren't part of the fabric of those who gave their lives to establish this nation, I just don't think you can completely appreciate that which makes us ....well us. There is no insult intended here I think this applies to all nations, religions, etc. We are all valuable because we all bring something different to the in my blockwatch. Each of us has a free will and trying to steal that crosses the line in any language. Period.

Since you asked. I grew up in a small town hundreds of miles from where I live now. My son was as active in the blockwatch as we were. My son also plays Xbox 360 and I have no problem with it. Actually he has learned much from having conversations and gaming with people from all over the world. I was a musician, who gave up (postponed) her (what everyone thought was a promising) career to stay home and raise my family. We homeshchool. Not everyone fits the selfish, lazy American stereotype so willingly thrust upon us and broadcast to the world by our own media, and sadly, our own President. I would even go out on a limb to suspect that most don't. I know my family doesn't, my neighbors don't, most of my friends don't.


posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 12:45 PM
reply to post by glad_to_be_His

I would never take it as offense
(As long as you dont call me nazi as someone did

Yes you are right i never lived in America, neither you in Portugal. We have different backgrounds and mind conceptions..

BUT, Im not willing to give my liberty.. its not even whats in discuss here.. common.. a few hours per year dont hurt anyone.. If you follow that road, if the kid/parents dont want him to go to school, but want him to work he should.. Its their choice right? Then why we have laws to stop child from work? Why is school obligatory? Because kids wouldnt go otherwise.. Same stuff with community involvement..

I didnt intend also to say EVIL Xbox360.. I play WoW for instance, so i know all you said about what your child learns.. Thats good.. but should be balanced with some "local action"

But parents dont, and cant because of their work schedules, control that play.. You are at home.. but think of who isnt.. (DELETED - Didnt make sense according to answer)

I had parents that fit your description.. But most of my colleagues only did what they want (i envy them at the time of course
, but im glad i was raised like that)..

Maybe one way to resolve this issue would be to cut work hours as i said.. But the almighty free market that americans love (another generalisation i know) dont let it be like that..

[edit on 23-4-2009 by Picao84]

[edit on 23-4-2009 by Picao84]

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