Study claims 'highly engineered explosive' found in WTC rubbl

reply to post by GoldenFleece


i just watched the video. i wonder how many of those reporters either didn't get a bonus that year, or were fired??
wouldn't those statistics tell a lot?

It's Steven E Jones again...

Cold fusion claims based on poor research
9/11 claims based on poor research
Fired from his job based on poor research

That's not to say it can't be true, but this is a very minor journal, and the quality of 'peer reviewed' depends a lot on who the peers are.

I'm putting it in my "interesting, if true" pile until some better scientists confirm his findings.


[edit on 6/4/2009 by RubberBaron]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Guess your wrong they do use it to weld beams most common use is welding train tracks and subway lines.

Thermite welding (TW) is a welding process which produces coalescence of metals by heating them with superheated liquid metal from a chemical reaction between a metal oxide and aluminum with or without the application of pressure.

Filler metal is obtained from an exothermic reaction between iron oxide and aluminum. The temperature resulting from this reaction is approximately 2500°C. The superheated steel is contained in a crucible located immediately above the weld joint. The superheated steel runs into a mold which is built around the parts to be welded. Since it is almost twice as hot as the melting temperature of the base metal melting occurs at the edges of the joint and alloys with the molten steel from the crucible. Normal heat losses cause the mass of molten metal to solidify, coalescence occurs, and the weld is completed.

reply to post by dragonridr


As I mentioned in my post, while it's used to weld railway lines together, it's too destructive and risky for use on buildings.

Mainly because anything below the weld will get damaged and partially melted as well.
Pretty obvious at that point why they don't use it on buildings. Everything below would have to be re-worked.

Originally posted by dragonridr
Guess your wrong they do use it to weld beams most common use is welding train tracks and subway lines.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bbf0b35b7ff8.jpg[/atsimg]


*Please provide examples of this type of nanoenergetic compound being used to weld "train tracks and subway lines."

I predict that you will be unable to do this - and you know why... ;-)

Originally posted by platoslab
Originally posted by T0by

Toxicity should be a concern as this stuff can't be filtered out from the environment.

That's true, I've searched for New York clusters of diseases and illnesses related to - for example aluminium toxicity: breast cancer, increased incidence of kidney failure, Alzheimer's.

I would say, on the whole, I haven't any correlated increase since 911.

There's been something of a decrease in fact reported in the MSM.






[edit on 6-4-2009 by undermind]

Wow nice finding and i must say some really ignorant repliers in here, Rtfm before trying to derail this thread with useless none backed informations.

But i think with this information we well get a ridiculous high amount of new accounts on ATS who tries to come up with some really creative ideas of what this component is that the scientists has found, I will go as far as calling them dis info agents.

Best regards.

Loke.

I call Shenanigans.... Every link I followed is linked to a loony conspiracy website that links to a loony conspiracy website. When will you guys stop with the headache material. Give it up, my god this is going to be like the Kennedy shooting 50 years from now. I am so tired of this type of crap as is 90 percent of the people on this site. You guys should just sit on the 9/11 truther sites and soak it up all day, go preach to your choir.

Originally posted by alienj
Every link I followed is linked to a loony conspiracy website that links to a loony conspiracy website.

Yeah....

You are currently on one your "loony conspiracy websites"... And it appears you have been here awhile...

*In any case, it is clear that you did not even bother to read the paper.

Do you have anything besides uncorroborated opinion and baseless critique to contribute?


[edit on 6-4-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by esdad71
Just to remind you folks of what happened that day, some of those 'secondary explosions' that occurred after the impact were actually the sound of bodies in alot of cases hitting the ground or the glass above. It was real. I find it funny how you believe people that heard some thing in some cases but not if they SAW planes hit the buildings...real planes...LOL..what kind of logic is that?

Thanks for the reminder, but do you really think the numerous references to "secondary explosions" by various people in that video are actually bodies hitting the ground? Really? That first KA-BOOOMMM (about :05 in) when the guy is on a pay phone and FDNY firefighters frantically motion him to get the hell out of Dodge?

Wow, now I've heard it all. It's so interesting to see the lengths that some people will go to rationalize what their minds either refuse or are unable to process. Seriously esdad71, you're in a MASSIVE state of denial. As in a delusional, desperate grasp for any shred of consensus reality. You spend so much time denying what is painfully obvious that I honestly don't think your mind could handle the world as it currently exists. There's no possibility that this ENORMOUS explosion that literally shakes the ground and sends dust flying is anything but the KABOOOOOMMMM of a big-ass incendiary device. Or as Larry Silverstein would say, "PULL IT!"

But if the only way you can retain what appears to be an increasingly tenuous grasp on manufactured reality is to convince yourself that an eardrum-bursting explosion is really the sound of a body hitting the ground, or a falling piece of building, or a gas valve or exploding copy machine or whatever, then go for it. Like I said, whatever helps you sleep better...

Golden, also to clarify, the WTC was not designed to withstand multiple hits of a airliner but to withstand the impact of one that was of course, in the fog, and if there was a collision the structure would stand long enough to allow evacuation. I know who you are quoting and it is incorrect.

You know that the architect of the WTC towers is incorrect when he says that a plane hitting the building's structural support system is equivalent to "punching holes in a screen?"

Again, thanks for that "clarification." No offense ES, but I don't think I'd want to be anywhere near you if your extensive mental defenses are ever breached and you temporarily awaken. That's gonna be one hell of a traumatic experience.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

I just watched the video. i wonder how many of those reporters either didn't get a bonus that year, or were fired??

My favorite is CNN's Jamie McIntyre who stood in front of the Pentagon and said, "based on my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon!" I think reporters are cut some slack on the first day, but they're gently counseled on what they really saw and heard (or didn't hear) from that point forward. This is why MSM reports during the first day are the most honest and accurate (except BBC's premature announcement of the "collapse" of WTC 7.) After the first day, the "official" script has been established (and is hopefully given out AFTER a building "collapses".)

But you're right, any reporter who foolishly mentions "secondary explosions" after the first day or who fails to quickly recognize the 757 that "crashed" into the Pentagon is gonna end up with a new assignment quoting pork belly futures in Crib Death, Iowa.



[edit on 6-4-2009 by GoldenFleece]

reply to post by dragonridr

Thermite welding (TW) is a welding process which produces coalescence of metals by heating them with superheated liquid metal from a chemical reaction between a metal oxide and aluminum with or without the application of pressure.

Good for you, can copy and paste. Thanks for demonstrating your computer literacy.

Now back to reality, Thermite Welding has very, very limited applications in construction.

I'm not denying that the construction of the WTC complex involved some thermite welding, but to have used so much of it that thermite compounds were found scattered like sand on a beach in the rubble of the Ground Zero is preposterous.

Not to mention the discovery of molten, liquid steel in the rubble of the buildings as a by-product of TW.

Furthermore, you are talking about THERMITE.

When the article describes THERMATE compounds being discovered, which burn at significantly higher temperatures (3000C) and are well noted for their destructive uses.

Which again further limits the usefulness THERMATE would have had in high-rise construction and further narrows the likelihood traces of THERMATE would be found in the rubble.

Filler metal is obtained from an exothermic reaction between iron oxide and aluminum. The temperature resulting from this reaction is approximately 2500°C.

And when you're talking about exothermic reactions producing temperatures hot enough to melt steel and concrete, you've got a very small window to adjoin two piece of metal together before the shape completely deforms to the point where the steel column or support won't have the right tensile properties to support itself.

There's NOTHING to suggest Thermite Welding is used for anything but railroads.

[edit on 6/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Originally posted by Highground
I enjoy non-biased sources more than clearly biased ones.

You want to see biased? Look at the look on John Gross's face when he states "there was no molten metal, I've heard of no reports".

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

When the article describes THERMATE compounds being discovered, which burn at significantly higher temperatures (3000C) and are well noted for their destructive uses.

Which again further limits the usefulness THERMATE would have had in high-rise construction and further narrows the likelihood traces of THERMATE would be found in the rubble.

But, if it were THERMATE, wouldn't there be traces of SULFUR and maybe also BARIUM NITRATE in the 'samples of super thermite', which none were?

Thermate

The main chemical reaction in thermate is the same as in thermite: an aluminothermic reaction between powdered aluminum and a metal oxide. In addition to thermite, thermate also contains sulfur and sometimes barium nitrate, both of which increase its thermal effect, create flame in burning, and significantly reduce the ignition temperature. Various mixtures of these compounds can be called thermate, but, to avoid confusion with Thermate-TH3, one can refer to them as thermite variants or analogs. The composition by weight of Thermate-TH3 (in military use) is 68.7% thermite, 29.0% barium nitrate, 2.0% sulfur and 0.3% binder (such as PBAN). As both thermite and thermate are notoriously difficult to ignite, initiating the reaction normally requires trained human supervision and sometimes persistent effort.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


What I said before:

Barium Nitrate is an oxidising metallic element similar to iron. You have to remember the composition of "Thermate" is not uniform, just like other destructive compounds like C-4/Semtex/RDX (which are all plastic explosives).

Hence different corporations who produce Thermate will use different substitutes, instead of Barium Nitrate, they might have substituted with another oxidising metal like Iron.

The results are still the same. It still produces intense temperatures capable of cutting through steel columns.

The lack of sulphur in the analysis can probably best be explained by the fact that it is a multivalent NON-METAL and most of it burns up in the initial ignition reaction.

It wouldn't surprise me any traces of sulphur were not found, elemental sulphur is simply soft, malleable rocks that would probably all burn up in intense heat, nowhere near as durable or persistent as metals such as iron or barium.

I did not state all of the secondary explosions were bodies but there were people who did report explosions and they turned out to be bodies. ALOT of people. Also, the video, people said alot of things that day because NO ONE knew exactly what was going on except we were being attacked. I would say that ANYONE saying that the day this happened they thought there was a conspiracy by our government is a freakin liar....

There were secondary explosions throughout the day. 3 solid buildings collapsed. Do YOU truly believe that if 2 100 story buildings fall, that there will be NO secondary explosions? Do you have any idea what the WTC complex was or how deep it went or how large the area was?

However, that is not what we are talking about. Please, show me in that .pdf file of their findings where there is an active nano thermite reaction? Please, let us get back the OP. My feeble mind will wait for the glory that is your response. I have a feeling it will mimic crickets in the wild....

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Seems pretty convenient that the 2 distinctive ingredients in THERMATE just disappear into the ether, doesn't it?

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
reply to post by CoffinFeeder

 

Read my previous post. Thermite is simply too hot to be used to weld common construction materials like steel, iron and corrugated metals because it would melt them instantly.

It simply burns at too high a temperature to be a useful welding medium. It might have limited use in welding heat-resistant compounds or fire-retardant materials used in skyscrapers but not ordinary steel and things like that.

Thermite is best suited to pyrotechnics and demolition.

err not quite so - I have seen Thermite used many times for welding steel rails for railway tracks. It is used with a shaped mold and filler material to surround the gap between the two rails.
en.wikipedia.org...

I am not doubting it's use in explosives and demolition and I too find it's presence on the site strange but I thought I would chime in against your too easy dismissal of it's use for welding.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


It didn't "disappear", it never existed, because the type of Thermate found in the WTC rubble had a different chemical composition.

Thermate, just like any other commonly used explosive or demolitions compound varies greatly in physical composition depending on WHO MAKES IT.

Different companies have different ways of doing things than the competition.
We do live in a Free-market society right? Competing brands offer differences to the consumer.

It's still Thermate they discovered, just a different variation.

The same way C-4/Semtex/RDX are all soft, malleable, plastic explosives that make enormous explosions for their size despite having different chemical compositions.

Seems pretty convenient that the 2 distinctive ingredients

1. Barium Nitrate can substituted by a multitude of other oxidising agents, so it's hardly "distinctive".

2. All the sulphur would have burned up in the initial ignition reaction. Have you seen elemental sulphur? It's a fine, misty powder.

Of course you're not going to find any traces of it in a violent collapse of a 110 storey building that pulverised tons and tons of concrete and other building materials into fine, misty powders.

reply to post by no_way!

I have seen Thermite used many times for welding steel rails for railway tracks.

Tell me, how many railway tracks were built at the WTC Complex?

Case closed.

Apart from railroads, which I already mentioned is TW's only real, practical construction application, I can't find any references to Thermite Welding being used in High-rise buildings.

Even with the growing plethora of scientific proof - the government will never tell the truth about this. The only way we will ever know, is if a NEW governing body takes over and decides to lay-bare the lies, murder, and treachery of the previous leadership.