Islamic Law's Influence in America a Growing Concern

When a nation loses the war to overtake another nation, it just waits a few years and then moves in peacefully.

This is happening in my country and probably yours.

reply to post by jimmyx

sorry but i don't respect a religion that makes women second class citizens, or a religion that makes you go down on your knees 5 times a day.

It is precisely this type of reaction that will create more extremism in Islam. Don't put all Muslims in the same basket.

Originally posted by TheDustman
reply to post by biomehanika

 

So, by your logic, more people joining the faith by personal decision is going to lead to more terrorists?

Originally posted by biomehanika
reply to post by TheDustman

 

Yes indeed.

Forgive if I've misread, but it looks to me like you agreed that more people joining the Muslim faith would mean more terrorists. That would, logically, mean that the people joining are becoming terrorists. This would most likely mean they are being recruited by extremists, and extremists are much more likely to adhere to Shariah law then moderates. Which would of course mean that they are recruiting people and using Shariah law to do it.

But thats just what I gathered from your posts in this thread.



[edit on 30-3-2009 by TheDustman]

[edit on 30-3-2009 by TheDustman]

[edit on 30-3-2009 by TheDustman]

reply to post by biomehanika


I'll agree with that, but that means its our fault and not Islam specifically.

reply to post by DJones


Moderate Muslims do not follow the extremist laws, and orders given in the Q'uran. Those who follow Shariah Law accept every single word in the Q'uran as gospel.

The following is just one verse which describes what men can do to women under Shariah.

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

quod.lib.umich.edu...

Under the Q'uran women are less than men, and there are many verses that show this. Moderate Muslims do not follow those verses of the Q'uran.

Women are but property if you follow the Q'uran to the letter.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by TheDustman


You have indeed misread my post. People converting to Islam do not mean they are converting to terrorism.

Islam ≠ Terrorism.

Islam is as much other religions peaceful. Some extremist perverts the word of Quran and give more Extremists meaning to it.

reply to post by biomehanika


Then to go back to the original reason I started a discussion with you, why are Muslims recruiting in the streets a problem if we've agreed that the majority of Muslims aren't terrorists, and the ones who are drifting to extremism are already members of the faith that feel persecuted?

reply to post by biomehanika



Actually, there are many orders of violence in the Q'uran given by Mohammed. Including the killing of Infidels. Remember that after Muhammed gathered most Arabic tribes, and converted them by force into Islam, he ordered them to spread Islam by the sword throuought the world.

Moderate Muslims follow the parts of the Q'uran which are not violent.

Originally posted by DJones
reply to post by biomehanika

 

I'll agree with that, but that means its our fault and not Islam specifically.

It is Our Fault indeed. There is a lack of understanding from both sides the westernised society and Muslims. There is a need for more understanding, communication and education to eliminate extremism.

reply to post by TheDustman


The problem is the recruitment are not for moderate purposes. They are being recruited by Extremists for Extremist purposes.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by biomehanika

 

Actually, there are many orders of violence in the Q'uran given by Mohammed. Including the killing of Infidels. Remember that after Muhammed gathered most Arabic tribes, and converted them by force into Islam, he ordered them to spread Islam by the sword throuought the world.

Moderate Muslims follow the parts of the Q'uran which are not violent.

Agree with you. But one must not forget that the same thing happened in Christianity when the church ordered Crusades to exterminate all those with faith other than Christianity.

Originally posted by biomehanika
reply to post by jimmyx

 

sorry but i don't respect a religion that makes women second class citizens, or a religion that makes you go down on your knees 5 times a day.

It is precisely this type of reaction that will create more extremism in Islam. Don't put all Muslims in the same basket.

am i wrong? can muslim women vote? can muslim women use birth control? can a muslim woman have her husband arrested for hitting her? can a muslim NOT pray 5 times a day without fear of reprisal? can a young muslim leave the religion without being hated by other muslims? can a muslim publicly critisize a mullah without being punished?

create more extremism??? what, for questioning their leaders? all of us on this planet should question our leaders, they are just men and women, and if something isn't fair or just, then THEY need to change, NOT the people.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by jimmyx]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Yes I realize that some Muslims treat women with no respect. But again this is not representative of the majority. Unspeakable things have been done in the name of all religions, the Bible says some pretty messed up things itself but that does not mean all or even a significant amount of Christians follow it.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Moderate Muslims follow the parts of the Q'uran which are not violent.

I would be willing to bet that some verses in the Quran were not originally there.

Or, besides something possibly getting added to the book itself, some of the content may have actually been manipulated.

Such is the case with all religious texts. None is in it's completely original form.

Politics and power have been the cause of this manipulation.

Sharia Law is a perfect example of manipulation.

But most of what I have personally read in the Quran(in Arabic) does not conform to this fabricated Sharia Law anyway.

reply to post by biomehanika


The type of person who would, on a whim, take up an extreme set of doctrines and laws and be willing to commit their lives to the injury of others is a scary one indeed. I believe those who would are likely to be unfit to function in society in the first place, and the religion has very little to do with that.

I agree that disillusioned people who are already Muslim are more likely to consider an extreme counter-reaction to post 9/11 sentiments, but I do not think that the Muslim faith itself gives people a predisposition for terrorism. But you agreed, and directly at that, to a post asking if you believed more Muslims would make for more terrorists. There is very little room for ambiguity in this case, and your response had none.

reply to post by TheDustman


The following might help you understand what I mean:

THE AL-QAEDA network is able to "directly recruit British muslims at street level in the UK", according to a ground-breaking new report by the UK's premier anti-extremism think-tank. The research paper produced by the Quilliam Foundation, just published in the US military journal, The Sentinel, says the success of attacks such as 7/7, compared with the failed bombings at Glasgow Airport and London's West End, is proof of the "direct assistance" from senior al-Qaeda members to British homegrown terrorist, without which "few of these attacks would have ever been viable". Author James Brandon also rejects the consensus that al-Qaeda has adopted a strategy of "leaderless jihad", recruiting and mobilizing followers purely through the internet. While counter-terrorism initiatives introduced since 9/11 have driven the movement underground, Brandon claims the evidence suggests al-Qaeda "continues to operate through a traditional hierarchical structure based on face-to-face contact" and is able to recruit directly in Britain. advertisement The report compiles evidence based on recent criminal trials to show how most of the major and successful terrorist plots in the post-9/11 era have had direct ties to high level al-Qaeda figures in the Afghanistan and Pakistan border region, calling into question the idea of terrorist self-starters'. Brandon told the Sunday Herald: "People aren't radicalised just by watching news about Iraq or Afghanistan or Gaza. It's a much more complex process than that. And the key thing to understand is that there are actually people out deliberately trying to radicalise other people - people aren't just self-radicalising. And once you understand that then it's slightly easier to deal with, because if you can simply tackle the people involved in the radicalisation then the problem to an extent goes away.

Report claims al-Qaeda can recruit in UK at street level

Originally posted by DJones
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Yes I realize that some Muslims treat women with no respect. But again this is not representative of the majority. Unspeakable things have been done in the name of all religions, the Bible says some pretty messed up things itself but that does not mean all or even a significant amount of Christians follow it.

The difference is that the horrible statements of the Old Testament were changed by Christ.

Christ did not partake on pillaging of caravans, taking women as slaves, or resort to beheading those that would not accept Islam, Muhammed did all those things and worse, and there was no prophet after him to change those deeds and his words.

That is one of the main reasons why there are so many Islamic Extremists, because they are following the Q'uran, and the other texts to the letter.

reply to post by biomehanika

THE AL-QAEDA network is able to "directly recruit British muslims at street level in the UK", according to a ground-breaking new report by the UK's premier anti-extremism think-tank

I don't share the opinion of this research group.

It might be true, on some level.

But it certainly is not as half as bad or much of a threat, as they are apparently projecting in this article.

And this certainly does not apply to America. Which is the topic of this thread.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Christ did not partake on pillaging of caravans, taking women as slaves, or resort to beheading those that would not accept Islam, Muhammed did all those things and worse

With respect EU,

Where is the evidence for these claims about Muhammad?


[edit on 30/3/09 by Majorion]

reply to post by biomehanika


Thank you very much. That makes where your coming from much clearer. I apologize if I misrepresented your point. With the link you provided, I see that you were referring to a specific case, rather then Muslims overall.