"Zionist Conspiracy Theory" = Black Propaganda

Zionism is not dead by any stretch of delusion or effort to make the discussion a mute point

Zionism (now that the state of Isreal was created) is focused on supporting the state of isreal and it's actions. If you can't understand that.. or try to imagine zionism is dead....i don't know how you could perform the critical thinking necessary for this thread topic...not the least be willing to contemplate that zionists are certainly willing to sacrifice followers of judaism should it benefit them (among others).

Does this mean Zionists are running a plot for world gov't? No not necessarily.....should a concentrated core of people be working directly or indirectly together they would likely have concentrated power in a number of powerful movements.......at least imo


[edit on 13-3-2009 by cpdaman]

When Theodore Herzl convened the First Zionist Congress in Basle, Switzerland, it was with the intent to fund and establish a Jewish
State in the Land of Israel.

To the extent that the Jewish World Organization and the Jewish National Fund have continued to influence Jewish expansion in Israel, then Zionism, by definition, exists.

Having been denied support in Eastern Europe and the Ottoman Empire, Herzl turned to Britain and the United States, who were only somewhat supportive.

There is no strategic reason for American support of any continuation of a Zionist movement. To the extent our support aids expansion of Israeli territory, the United States will face conflict and opposition in the Middle East.

jw

Suffice to say I do believe "Zionism" is about NWO / Illuminati and dominant control. How much of the show they run or not is never clear. Whether the Vatican and the Zionists are one and the same under the covers isn't clear. But clearly they are both very involved in persecutions for a very long time. There are varied opinions on the protocols of Zion but how true or false they are is unresolved. I think the important point is that they do reflect a pretty accurate game plan for the world progression in the last 100+ years. If you look at Israel as well as WWII you will find "evidence" showing Zionism to be an enemy of "True Jews". Someone else can go find references they like or they don't like. Ultimately these issues are clouded and I think it's safe to say even "historians" really don't know what is really correct. What we see is our best judgment and that is that Israel is a state of extreme caste prejudice and has falsely risen to power and is ruled by Zionists. The true Jews where victimized for propaganda by WWII but not mass executed. The Nazis loved Catholicism and the Nazis leadership loved the Zionist Jews and kept the Jews out of the line of fire by putting them in prison camps. Then, after the war, claims of mass executions facilitated the Jews getting a "home land" despite protests by true Jews of the time and continuing to this day. The Zionist conspiracy if crystal clear to many "true Jews" just research it objectively.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
I'm sure you are aware that several of the most popular US presidents were Freemasons.

Yes and so what?

To assert that Freemasons have no political power is a fallacy.

It's very difficult to succeed in many professions, such as law, without becoming a Freemason.

This is untrue. Its based on misguided conspiracy-theories. Was it true 100 years ago? Maybe, maybe not. But its not true today.

Freemason council get preferrential treatment in court. Freemasons, in general, get preferrential treatment in almost every field of endeavor. You cannot run a successful law firm without at least one Freemason on your team.

Freemasons claim that membership rolls are open to the public, yet many people in positions of power refuse to admit or deny membership when asked.

Freemason police officers often employ a blue shield of silence, in that they will refuse to speak about other their "brothers," even while under oath.

Being a Freemason is very important in the medical field as well; it is insurance against malpractice lawsuits.

One of the more outlandish claims besides what has already been suggested is that the jews are responsible for WW2. Do any of you zionist conspiracy theorists believe this to be true?

Gentlemen,


I haven't seen one person mention Pikes letter to Mazzini in 1871!

" "The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the 'agentur' of the 'Illuminati' between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion. ""

More here [ 19 pages down, near the bottom ]
www.911kemet.co.uk...

Nobody mentioned the comments made to Congress about the threat of the "money trusts". They were/are real not imagined threats.

Same goes for the comments about the UN.

Similar comments about establishing the Fed.

And the list goes just goes on far longer than time permits. And they're all connected, the common denominator is the money.

The whole thing can be quite overwhelming to those who just have not read the info or just scoffed not taking it serious thinking no way that could happen etc etc.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
QUESTION TO SKYFLOATING - Isn't the term 'zionist' defunct? Doesn't the term mean someone who wants to create the nation of Israel? Since Israel exists, does that mean the term is now fulfilled and not useable? At least that's what the term used to mean.

Yes it is. The conventional term is defunct.

But what we are referring to here is the "Jewish World Conspiracy" or "Zionist World Conspiracy" or "International Jew Theory" or "Zionist Occupied Government Theory". The "Protocols" mentioned in the OP hold that these Joooos control the entire media, banking and entertainment of the western world.

mybigunit keeps saying that, for example. Hundreds of ATS-Posts keep saying that on a daily basis.

But its a gross generalization and also uses "guilt by association".

Its a generalization because people of all religions and races hold positions of powers around the world. And its "guilt by asssociation" because it leads to the belief that if you are a Jew and hold a high position you must be "in on the conspiracy".

What they are really saying is: "Jews arent allowed to have positions of authority, because we hate Jews".

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

It clearly states in the Book of Revelation One World Government ruled by the Anti-Christ and all Christian Zionists do believe that is essential and will happen to usher in the return of the Christ that Jews themselves don’t believe in.

How could, why would, anyone deny this is a conspiracy?

Religions make up conspiracy-theories about each other and always have.

People who feel inadequate and desire more power, make up conspiracy-theories about people more succesful than them.

Im not saying conspiracies dont exist. But we have to be mindful that some conspiracy-theories are also smear campaigns.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Those pamphlets produced by religious fundamentalists are not very up to date. If you look for modern-day power in masonic lodges you wont find any. Look at Silicon Valley instead. You`ll find some real reality-shaping power there.

Game-boards change.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is still used as a tool to spread hatred today. The document is officially endorsed and distributed by the Hamas, the President of Iran and offered as fact in many other islamic countries. In some its even taught in schools.

I don't doubt that there is much hate for Jews in Iran by some of its population (people hate for various reasons all over the world) but Iran does have a Jewish population within its borders.

Why haven't they destroyed them yet, if they are so bent on Jewish destruction?

Fact of the matter is that the Protocols are the original seed of anti-american and anti-jewish sentiment in the muslim world.

I don't know if this has been asked or answered (didn't see it) but what about the large number of Jews that are AGAINST Zionism?

Are they part of this Muslim/Nazi plot or do they have a legitimate reason to feel that Zionism is a very destructive concept.

From their official site they state that:

True Torah Jews Against Zionism - Our Mission
The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology. This struggle is rooted in two convictions:

1. Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching.

2. Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah centered understanding of our people hood with an armed materialism.
jewsagainstzionism

Their reasons seem based on religion and the actions of Israel itself (which they separate as Zionist and not Jewish) and they don't seem intent on destroying the Jews, which clearly they seem to be.

So based on this reaction by some Jews, do you still think it is impossible to decry the actions of Israel and Zionism and not secretly call for the absolute annihilation of ALL Jews?

Regardless of any of this, Jews in general do not appear to be suffering from anyones opinion or persecution unlike many other groups (Native Americans, Blacks, Aborigines, etc.) who were persecuted and seem to still feel the effects to this day in terms of poverty and self destruction.

Half of the 100 most powerful people in the world are Jewish.

Jewish power dominates at 'Vanity Fair'

It's a list of "the world's most powerful people," 100 of the bankers and media moguls, publishers and image makers who shape the lives of billions. It's an exclusive, insular club, one whose influence stretches around the globe but is concentrated strategically in the highest corridors of power.

More than half its members, at least by one count, are Jewish.
theJPost.com

Jews seem to be doing fine to me.

- Lee

To skyfloating , who attempts very poorly to debunk the protocols

a fact check:
the statement of protocol:

5. The other great power of THE PRESS. By repeating without cessation certain ideas, the PRESS succeeds in the end in having them accepted as actualities. The THEATER renders us analogous services. Everywhere the PRESS and the THEATER obey our orders.
www.the7thfire.com...

proven
the western media is controlled by Murdoch who is a zionist

Murdoch’s support for Zionism extremists is well known and a matter of record. As New York Governor George Pataki said, “There is no newspaper in the U.S. more supportive of (the counterfeit-Jewish State in, but not of) Israel than the [Murdoch’s] New York Post.”
100777.com...

hollywood and porn has a lot of jewish influence too

6. By the ceaseless praise of DEMOCRATIC RULE we shall divide the CHRISTIANS into political parties, we shall destroy the unity of their nations, we shall sow discord everywhere. Reduced to impotence, they will bow before the LAW OF OUR BANK, always united, and always devoted to our CAUSE.
www.the7thfire.com...

look at the political bickering in USA within dems and reps
the incessant praise of this flawed system called democracy, i have seen in media ,\\
Reduced to impotence, they will bow before the LAW OF OUR BANK, always united, and always devoted to our CAUSE.
\\
NOBODY whos in power DARES TO oppose the federal reserve which is a private entity owned partially by rothschild

9. Let us try replace the circulation of gold with paper money; our chests will absorb the gold, and we shall regulate the value of the paper which will make us masters of all the positions.

THE GREATEST OF THEM ALL, the gold standard has been abolished and been fait economy and fractional banking , which ARE ALL PAPER MONEY
[EX]
14. BUT ABOVE ALL LET US MONOPOLIZE EDUCATION. BY THIS MEANS WE SPREAD IDEAS THAT ARE USEFUL TO US, AND SHAPE THE CHILDREN'S BRAINS AS SUITS US. [/EX]

THE EDUCATION IN USA HAS BEEN DUMBED DOWN SEVERELY

7. We shall FORCE THE CHRISTIANS INTO WARS by exploiting their pride and their stupidity. They will massacre each other, and clear the ground for us to put our own people into

Rothschild use to fund both sides of war
USA has gone to war in WW1 against germans due to jewish bankers

World War I broke out in the summer of 1914. Nineteen-hundred and fourteen was the year in which World War One broke out. There are few people here my age who remember that. Now that war was waged on one side by Great Britain, France, and Russia; and on the other side by Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey. What happened? Within two years Germany had won that war: not alone won it nominally, but won it actually. The German submarines, which were a surprise to the world, had swept all the convoys from the Atlantic Ocean, and Great Britain stood there without ammunition for her soldiers, stood there with one week's food supply facing her -- and after that, starvation. At that time, the French army had mutinied. They lost 600,000 of the flower of French youth in the defense of Verdun on the Somme. The Russian army was defecting. They were picking up their toys and going home, they didn't want to play war anymore, they didn't like the Czar. And the Italian army had collapsed. Now Germany -- not a shot had been fired on the German soil. Not an enemy soldier had crossed the border into Germany. And yet, here was Germany offering England peace terms. They offered England a negotiated peace on what the lawyers call a status quo ante basis. That means: “Let's call the war off, and let everything be as it was before the war started.” Well, England, in the summer of 1916 was considering that. Seriously! They had no choice. It was either accepting this negotiated peace that Germany was magnanimously offering them, or going on with the war and being totally defeated. While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, who represented the Zionists from Eastern Europe, went to the British War Cabinet and -- I am going to be brief because this is a long story, but I have all the documents to prove any statement that I make if anyone here is curious, or doesn't believe what I'm saying is at all possible -- the Zionists in London went to the British war cabinet and they said: “Look here. You can yet win this war. You don't have to give up. You don't have to accept the negotiated peace offered to you now by Germany. You can win this war if the United States will come in as your ally.” The United States was not in the war at that time. We were fresh; we were young; we were rich; we were powerful. They [Zionists] told England: “We will guarantee to bring the United States into the war as your ally, to fight with you on your side, if you will promise us Palestine after you win the war.” In other words, they made this deal: “We will get the United States into this war as your ally. The price you must pay us is Palestine after you have won the war and defeated Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.”
Now England had as much right to promise Palestine to anybody, as the United States would have to promise Japan to Ireland for any reason whatsoever. It's absolutely absurd that Great Britain -- that never had any connection or any interest or any right in what is known as Palestine -- should offer it as coin of the realm to pay the Zionists for bringing the United States into the war.

However, they made that promise, in October of 1916. October, nineteen hundred and sixteen. And shortly after that -- I don't know how many here remember it -- the United States, which was almost totally pro-German -- totally pro-German -- because the newspapers here were controlled by Jews, the bankers were Jews, all the media of mass communications in this country were controlled by Jews, and they were pro-German because their people, in the majority of cases came from Germany, and they wanted to see Germany lick the Czar.
www.sweetliberty.org...

read more:
So the German bankers -- the German-Jews -- Kuhn Loeb and the other big banking firms in the United States refused to finance France or England to the extent of one dollar. They stood aside and they said: “As long as France and England are tied up with Russia, not one cent!” But they poured money into Germany, they fought with Germany against Russia, trying to lick the Czarist regime.

Originally posted by lee anoma
Why haven't they destroyed them yet, if they are so bent on Jewish destruction?

They know to discern between small religious pockets within their borders and what they perceive to be the "Jewish World Conspiracy" which involves "The Holocaust is fake", "America is Satan" and "Jews have no business being in Israel".

You make it look as though this is not prevalent in that country. It is. And its based on disinformation.

I don't know if this has been asked or answered (didn't see it) but what about the large number of Jews that are AGAINST Zionism?

These obscure religious groups hardly represent the majority of Jews. And again: What definition of Zionism are they against?

There are two definitions: One is the World-Conspiracy-Theory and one is the Israeli-Oppression Theory. When Joe Biden says "I am a Zionist" or they say "Jews against Zionism" they are not referring to the World-conspiracy-theory but to Israeli Occupation/Settlement.

Half of the 100 most powerful people in the world are Jewish.

I bet that the most vocal critics of successful people would just love to be on that list themselves.

reply to post by lee anoma


And since when are the true power players of the world openly published about in Vanity Fair?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It’s called the book of Revelations.

... which was written by an old man, who had survived three assassination attempts, living in exile under tremedous stress. He was probably suffering from dementia hallucinations. Considering his life was so dedicated to his religion, his hallucinations came forth in the form of religious ones.

Sorry, but no one knows what Revelations really is.
Lots of interpretations are out there. But no one really knows.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by masterp
How come Zionism is not real, yet all the things that are mentioned in the Protocols of Zion are becoming true? the demoralization of people, the race mixing, the massive debts...

1. What is the greatest change in the last 20 years? Probably the Internet. The currently largest source of media information. And all of it created by you.

2. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion show how Machiavellian Power-Politics work. The problem begins when claiming any one specific group is behind it all. That creates a witchhunt.

Machiavellian Power-Politics did not speak about the demoralization of nations, the mixing of nations and races, the massive debts of nations and of people to banks.

Only the Protocols of Zion talk about these things.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Hi Skyfloating I do hope you are doing well friend.

First off I would like to say I bear no side in any conflict any malice. All is fair in love and war or so the women who love to break my heart tell me!

I have long suspected that the religious books are kind of like a long running loose script towards an end and outcome the people who originally wrote them would like to see come about.

Believe it or not I think every conspiracy in some way shape or form ties into that loose script.

Some people take this side, some people take that side, some people are utterly indifferent and some people fight and rail against it.

It is like a backdrop to life, the underlying plot in a movie, something to always give the rich and powerful and otherwise utterly bored something to play at. It's rumored for instance that Skull & Bones renames their fraternity members to assign them names out of the Christian Bible, for instance George H. W. Bush, Sr., is supposed to be named Magog.

I don't know if this is true, I am not a member. I do know a few of the utterly rich and old money Gentleman's Club crowd well and they are utterly bored and often in the hunt for some deviant or otherwise fun game to play to make life more exciting.

I think the rich which by no means are all Jewish entertain themselves in fashions like this and yes make money too, though the money is more of a way of keeping score to them than it is a necessity in life. I imagine if I was born into a family with so much wealth that I would never have to work or tie my own shoes unless I chose to, I would be pretty bored and disaffected too.

It gives the super rich something to play at following along with this script in the religious books, and it gives the poor some meaning to their lives as they struggle 80% of their working day just to eek out a living.

I don't see it as particularly evil or particularly good. You know good books usually have a follow up. Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Arc II, who knows what the next book really is when this one finishes? I think everyone with an imagination can see how the story ends, but I don't think too many people have figured out or put any thought into why the story ends that way.

One thing is for sure, to the victors go the spoils and we live in a competitive world where someone has to win. The victors are generally absolved from apologizing by sheer virtue of the fact that they won, and well, there are no judges that say you cheated give it back in the big back drop game that I like to think is simply the underlying linchpin to the system that binds us together in a common shared reality.

I personally am not for Tar and Feathering anyone who insists on or loves playing the game. In fact best of luck to them, may the best man, and the best team win.

I am of the opinion there are probably a bit friendlier possibly even funner games to play but until Parker Brothers or Milton Bradley or the Swiss and Lord Rothschild come up with one, and call this one, it's the only game in town.

Even those of us who don't like it kind of find a purpose and kick in playing it.

No need for anyone to apologize or feel guilty when in fact we all are playing it in some fashion or another. That's probably why they selected it, it's a pretty engaging game.

For what it's worth I don't necessarily believe the game will end the way the books say, I think that's just the goal of the game for someone to be declared the winner. Yes, I imagine the faction and person that can unite the entire world in a one world government under their total control would be the winner.

It makes sense to me. Thanks for playing, remember there maybe parting door prizes! The best contests do usually have them. I am hoping for at least a years supply of Tide out of it. It sure has gone up in price lately!

Peace, your friend...

Protoplasmic Traveler

reply to post by Skyfloating

Well, Sky floating, you have managed to build a fine Quagmire here. If this was a debate, no one wins. Good job. There is a conspiracy, and your claims that people who think that Jews are a part of it being anti-semites and or duped by some fake documents are ridiculous. Just like the cancerous and Nazi-like Anti-Defamation-League. I do not think you are part of a conspiracy, you are too much of a knee- jerk reactionary relating to this issue. I do think you could have a great chance at working for the A.D.L. They are propagandists and witch hunters ,too. You are very good at deflection and subterfuge, which is why you should work for these modern day Nazi's and inquisitors.

Originally posted by MrPenny


No. Zionism as defined is a dead political/nationalist movement.

Ok fair enough. According to the definition of Zionism on wiki it is the formation of the state of Israel in the land of Palestine. So basically this is where we disagree for you say Zionism is now over because they occupy there. Ok I feel its not over and that it is for an international state but Ill get more into this later.

Do you feel Jews control the international banking cartel?

Huh? Define "international banking cartel". You throw that out there like some Southerner mentioning NASCAR. Does an "international banking cartel" exist? I'm having trouble imagining that watching bank after bank fail. Your question is very close to the fallacy of "begging the question"....by throwing in the reference to an organization whose existence hasn't been established.

You know....centuries ago, the Jews were handed the job of banker on a silver platter....and ancient man wasn't stupid, they had an intellect equal to ours. I can't imagine it taking very long for the light to go on....hey, we can make some serious jack doing this......and it doesn't involve digging in dirt or gutting farm animals.....good gig... No one seems to give a hoot that coopers, farriers, weavers, etc...handed off their craft to their offspring....why does it turn into evil when the trade happens to be fiduciary?

The international banking cartel are the major international banks like the BIS, IMF, The National Banks ie Federal Reserve & BOE etc, and the World Bank basically the group that runs the international financial system and yes it does exist. If it didnt exist you wouldnt have FOREX and and other international exchanges. Think of it as the oil cartel like the arabs have. So lets go by it one by one...

World Bank
President Paul Wolfowitz & succeeded by Robert Bruce Zoellick-Jewish

IMF
Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn-Jewish

Bank of International Settlements
General Manager: Malcolm D Knight - Jewish
First Deputy Managing Director: John Lipsky - Jewish

Jews comprise approximately 1%-2% of the population of the Western world*. So the probability that the heads of the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and Bank for International Settlements would all be Jewish is infinitesimally small. You must ask yourself how such an incredibly small and extremely unrepresentative minority ethnic group could control all three of these important international banking institutions.

Federal Reserve
Timothy F. Geithner - President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York
Eric Rosengren - President, Federal Reserve Bank of Boston
Gary Stern - President, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis
Hell look at all the head banks I only see three heads that are not Jewish en.wikipedia.org...
Benjamin S. Bernanke - Chairman, Federal Reserve System Board of Governors
Donald L. Kohn - Vice Chairman, Federal Reserve System Board of Governors
Kevin M. Warsh - member, Federal Reserve System Board of Governors
Randall S. Kroszner - member, Federal Reserve System Board of Governors
Frederic S. Mishkin - member, Federal Reserve System Board of Governors
All Jewish

Once again is this a coincidence?

I would go through all the main banks here in the US but I have to leave and will be back in a few hours. Ill add on to this post to list them all and Ill answer your questions to me also.

Do you feel the international banking cartel runs the world?

That one really is "begging the question".

Nope its quite simple and even Rothschild pointed out "Give me the power to control a nations money and I care not who makes the laws" This latest ringding we just went through should prove who runs the show. The banks asked for trillions and we gave it to them in the blink of an eye.

Ok once again Ill be back in a few hours and I will add on to this post and answer your questions to me. I have more banks and more coincidences I need to add.....

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It’s called the book of Revelations.

... which was written by an old man, who had survived three assassination attempts, living in exile under tremedous stress. He was probably suffering from dementia hallucinations. Considering his life was so dedicated to his religion, his hallucinations came forth in the form of religious ones.

Sorry, but no one knows what Revelations really is.
Lots of interpretations are out there. But no one really knows.

You know honestly I have no idea who wrote the book of Revelations. I wasn't there. I have a vague idea of who chose to include it in the Christian scriptures and a loose theory as to why. I personally just think it's a script in a play for certain people to act out. There is some not well collaborated evidence that the Skull & Bones Fraternity Members are assigned these roles to play out through out their lives once leaving school. I do not know if that's true, but I do not know if it's not true.

I can't stress enough to you that I am not anti any group or pro any group. I think every ideology and philosophy has it's pros and cons. It's good points and it's bad points.

What I do think is odd as a non religious person is the fact that Christians chose to align themselves with Hebrews versus Muslims. Not because Muslims are any better or worse than Hebrews or Hebrews are any better or worse than Muslims or either of them are any better or worse than Christians, but because if you take the Christ out of Christians you just have tians!

Christianity is all about Christ, and Christians believe he is a deity in his own right and somehow a part of his father but separate from his father.

Now Hebrews do not believe in Christ at all, yet Christ is the fundamental and driving persona in Christianity. Hebrews believe he was a false prophet, blasphemer and usurper. They believe what he attempted to do was very bad and evil. Christians believe what he attempted to do was the road to their salvation and ultimate purpose in life. The two sides seem diametrically opposed and in fact there have been points in History like the Spanish Inquisition where Hebrews were persecuted and executed for believe in the Hebrew faith. Now there are two possible side conspiracies involved in the Spanish Inquisition. The first and more interesting is it appears that the a good portion of the Hebrews targeted for persecution where practicing the Kabbalah mystic form of the religion. Is it possible this offended the Talmudic Scholars and Elders and they cut a side deal with the Catholics of Spain and the Pope to rid the religion of Judaism of this influence? Or is it possible that the mystic side of the faith gave the practitioners of it some supernatural witchcraft like power that people in general were fearful of? The less intriguing and less romantic part of the Spanish Inquisition which often led to persecution of the Hebrews in other parts of the world was the theft of their wealth or murder to avoid paying back loans that nobles who were Christians would borrow from lenders who were Jews. What I also find very curious is that Christianity frowned on Usury and forbade it, money was considered dirty and unclean, and pious people should have no use for it. In a way this did set the stage for the Hebrews to monopolize the practice of usury which typically initially would guarantee their welcome and acceptance and a degree of autonomy in the kingdoms and nations they kept migrating to throughout Diaspora. Money though considered the root of all evil by Christians was also considered a necessary evil by all Christians and the only place you could turn to to get money quickly were the Hebrew who exclusively practiced it's loan. They became a welcome ingredient to a Kingdom as they did provide this valuable resource but became a burden to a kingdom that could not or would not repay it's debt which sometimes led to their persecution and expulsion. The kingdoms that they could establish a permanent and lasting presence in became ones that because they essentially controlled the flow of money since Christianity frowned upon Christians doing so, ended up giving them great power and influence within Kingdoms intent on expansion and prosperity and wealth. The real conspiracy here may have been in fact a preplanned expansion through the world using the practice of usury to slowly bring each kingdom under a form of Hebrew control and to fund and propel the expansion of Kingdoms utilizing a monetary system based on gold by exploiting the Christians especially to colonize and attack pagan people's who were independent of this trade system and to incorporate those lands and surviving people into the society based on gold as a monetary form of commerce. Christians were encourage to kill and convert heathens yet discouraged from practicing usury or amassing wealth except in the ruling class. Is it possible in theory that Rome since the Time of Augustus and Mark Anthony had become accustomed themselves to borrowing Gold from the Hebrews foresaw as the Empire grew ever larger and more expensive to maintain the cost of bread and circuses, roads, hygiene, fresh water, art and culture realized it's taxation base was being eroded because of the consolidation of the land in the Patrician's class hands due to their armies being bled white through endless expansion and conquest. In the early days of the republic and empire only land owning free citizens were allowed to fight in the army. It was believed only a free man who owned a piece of Rome would stand his ground and hold ranks and fight for it to the death. Likewise foot soldiers not only had to have something to die for in land, but nothing to live for in the form of a wife or a child. When they died in battle their was no wife or child to leave their land too so the Patricians bought it on the cheap. Most of the land ended up in the Patricians hands in this way over the course of hundreds of years, and the Patrician class would have by nature of their influence in the Senate that they almost all always served in fought against a tax rate that would have placed an unwanted burden on their wealth. With the tax base on the decline and bills on the rise were the Hebrews themselves beginning to be alarmed that Rome might default on their debts and devised a plan that would be beneficial to Rome as well as in the long run to their own ambitions for world power? Is it possible that the destruction of the nation of Israel itself by Rome was a false flag type of action in it's own right. There is some evidence that Christianity was being practiced already in England and may have actually originated there and not in the Middle East, by that time Hadrian had in fact discovered that Brittan was also a very tough place to tame, the Gauls and Huns and other Germanic and Eastern Tribes were constantly pressing on Romes far flung borders, and it was becoming impossible to field armies of Land Owning Citizens since once land reverted to the Patrician class it never ended back up in the Plebe class but instead was being farmed by an ever growing population of Slave Labor. The writing would have been on the Wall to an intelligent Roman emperor by that time as they turned to the alarmed Hebrews for more and more money to keep the thing going, taxing them into near rebellion and worrying them if the growing debt could ever be repaid. Now of course Rome would not want to loose all that land and power and influence it had garnered through it's endless expansion, nor would the Hebrews want to see them loose it because of how lucrative and profitable it was to fund such a vast amount of people at an interest bearing profit. Could Hadrian have sat down with the Jewish Elders and King and devised a plan to ensure both their long term wealth and power and the Romans by introducing...continued

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


part II...continued

By introducing competing religious doctrines to ensure both nations long term wealth and power. Israel is destroyed for defying Rome and it's power. The Hebrews leave and go to Baghdad where they had long standing ties and a separate community to absorb and support them. Enough Gold was lent to the Romans to keep the empire up and running while the new religion was introduced. The new religion if successful would eliminate the cost of bread and circuses and festivals and multiple temples to multiple gods and be replaced with a morality based faith system of eternal paradise for following the rule of law and paying taxes, and eternal damnation for not following the rule of law, the imposed pious and very inexpensive morality, and failure to pay taxes?

This would have eliminated most of the states costs as well as a plan to let the luxuries of the expensive to maintain infrastructure collapse as they heralded in the dark ages of feudal serfdom held together by the Holy Roman Empire through the Pope in Rome.

The Jews of course would have no need to accept Christ since in fact the scripture was false. Christ was a pagan figure from the British Isles a remote and little traveled to part of the kingdom because of it's remoteness and the fact it was an island. The laity of the original Christ sect could be through Roman Arms exterminated and hunted down to obscure the deities origins and the few remaining nobles required to maintain order to farm and mine the land could have been bribed and bought off with promises of power and Roman/Hebrew Gold.

Because the new doctrine was then founded in the Hebrew faith this would have been the insurance to the Hebrew Elders operating on a leap of faith that they would be paid back and ensured a place in the overall commerce and power structure that there would always be a place for them in the new system. They were the fathers, Christians would be the Children and this would give them a sort of insurance that the new system could not function without them. The scriptures the new system would follow would even write in a guarantee that one day Israel and Jerusalem would be theirs again and that it was the pinnacle moment of Christianity that this should happen because it ushered in the earthly manifestation of the deity that they would have to accept and believe in and love on faith alone until that time. For the system to work the Hebrews were guaranteed a place, function and role. So they took their remaining gold and left for Baghdad to make more and waited.

They voluntarily went into Diaspora and as the Roman Empire first divided and then was set up to be conquered by Justinian to herald in the Christian age by making it the state religion. The bread and circuses and festivals and religious practices of the old system would all cease forcing the new doctrine upon the crumbling empire and a slow metamorphosis to a system that would allow them to essentially retain control in a profitable and maintainable way.

The Priestly Class and Christian faithful and zealots would stamp out the pagan practices of the barbaric tribes and set up feudal kingdoms that the Hebrews would come in behind them to fund. The vestiges of the Roman elite and the Hebrews shared power in this way. Two competing ideologies that were disparate enough to assign each a role in this system yet similar enough to ensure each would live side by side.

The other Desert tribes who loosely practiced a faith off the same deity the Hebrews worshiped would have naturally gone their own way as they weren't incorporated into this system. They would have no reason to see Jesus as divine either since they did not bear witness to his introduction. Yet they would see wisdom in his writings and teachings and that others who shared the same base deity did too and proclaim him a prophet and recognize him but not to the degree Christians did.

This would have allowed for a consolidation of further flung regions of the world that Roman/Christian arms were not in sufficient strength to conquer and consolidate, they could be taken over later at the conclusion of the plan once Judain/Christian based Rule of Law had consolidate the easier to conquer regions of the yet to be absorbed world. The Hebrews in Baghdad could still prosper on this third branch of the religion still based on theirs but radically different, through funding it's expansion as well while slowly fueling the differences between the Christians and Muslims to further ensure their own position and a counter balance to one another, as well as a means to control excess population and ensure that no other system could possibly take hold. Each competing religions beliefs would be further instilled through having to fight against those who considered them to be invalid and false usurpers.

The Christians would conquer lands, set up the Roman system of Law, which was now the Catholic Church, the Hebrews would later come in once safety and order was established and set up the gold based commerce system to employ the masses and generate the wealth to pay the noble class to manage the Christian faithful.

Because the Vatican and the Hebrew Elders were closely aligned in this system the differences over the rejection of Christ would be for the most part downplayed and perhaps only exploited when one of the Hebrew Tribes broke from the system set up by the Elders which might have been why the Spanish Jews were separately persecuted because they had broken with the rest of the far flung tribes system and were trying to introduce another on their own through the Kabbalah. Likewise the non ethnic descendants who were converted to Judaism in Eastern Europe and Russia who weren't always privy to this system and acted in ways that were detrimental to it might have been targeted for pogroms as a result to maintain the purity of the plan and to keep the wealth and power concentrated in a small enough number of hands to ensure that the laity of all three religions never understood what the doctrines were being used for.

While incredibly complex this is the only reason I can imagine would have allowed Christians to form a near constant alliance with a sect that basically rejected their lord Jesus Christ instead of an alliance with the sect that at least saw him as a holy man and prophet.

If I were taking over the world this is how I would have done it.

Gee I really do hope I am not the one who did it!

See this is the mother of all conspiracies, it's the plan to take over the entire world and unite it in a single system of government and commerce for power and efficiencies sake, it was formulated long ago and is overseen and carried out by a small and select group of people who were able to maintain their bloodlines and wealth along the way to complete the plan.

It doesn't seem quite so evil when you look at it that way, just some smart people trying to figure out how the heck to get a bunch of people clubbing each other with wooden sticks dancing naked in the moon light and living in caves eating raw meat to get along on something and unite.

Who knows what happens if the plan can be pulled off and unification can be completed?

Will the victors be like Augustus and one of the five Good Emperors or will they be despots like a Caligula or Nero.

Anybody's guess their.

That's my conspiracy theory, debunk away my beloved skeptics!

[edit on 14/3/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]