Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Why should someone who's never been to the Middle East have a right to kick someone else out of their home?

[snip]

Then please, take it upon yourself to do us the honor.

You just did, thank you. You did it, you exposed the inherent irony in my previous post. And what you have failed to realize, or rationalize, is that human history is nothing but repeated instances of people "kicking other people out of their homes". Over and over again.

Originally posted by MrPenny

I haven't time to give a lesson in economics or financial matters right now...but the current banking crisis is a result of the lack of control. It may very well have as a root cause something as simple as a mathematical formula (written by a gentleman of Chinese descent) no one understood, yet trusted with our money. Incidentally, Iceland, with very few Jews running its banks, totally collapsed.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by MrPenny]

Im not going to respond to the other part of your post because its plain to see as I provide facts you keep rebutting with baseless rebuttals siting no facts just rhetoric. But I will reply to this because this situation was 98% caused by the banks 2% caused by the people. It was caused by the banks because they flooded the market with low interest money and gave it to anyone and everyone knowing they would take the money. Now keep in mind there is interest attached to all of this debt. Then in late 2007 they cut the supply and quit lending money. Anyone who understand how our monetary system run would understand that what that does is leave a lot of debt that cant be repaid forcing mass bankruptcies and mass foreclosures for people cant afford their houses or debt. The 2% that is the peoples faults is their fault for buying into this corrupt debt based system.

Unless you start coming back with facts instead of what you did on this post I wont respond to anymore of your posts because Im not going to derail the thread to some childish tit for tat. I list my facts and I list my assumptions. You can agree with those assumptions or list facts of your own and your assumptions to those facts.

I had to think about my "political correct" answer on this one Skyfloating.

How about; I agree with your thread, if you agree that there is Zionist extremism too?

Originally posted by Grey Magic
I had to think about my "political correct" answer on this one Skyfloating.

How about; I agree with your thread, if you agree that there is Zionist extremism too?

I should have clarified this more in the OP. There is a difference between Zionism (which does has its extremes, of course!) and what people call ZOG or JWC.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
And yes, Americans see Israel as their close ally

Exactly, but why?..why are Israel, America's number-one ally?

Originally posted by Majorion
Exactly, but why?..why are Israel, America's number-one ally?

To answer grey magics and your question in one:

Empires come and go. Powers come and go. Alliances come and go. Why are many arab states allied? Because of similarity in values and attitudes.

Whats wrong with having close relationships?

Originally posted by mybigunit
as I provide facts

No you haven't. Not one.

Have a good day.

It sure is amazing all the bigots that come out to play whenever the subject of Judaism is brought in.

I have to say, people that think practicing one religion means anything more than another aren't very bright or informed. You say "jews" control the money, He says "christers" kill more than any other religion, they say that muslims are fanatical.
It is easy to pick a group to hate, everyone has the "them" mentality offering a perceived distancing from those that they either are jealous of or frightened of.
I find it funny how such a mainstream ages old belief system gets twisted into a modern conspiracy, kinda like folks like to do with freemasonry or Paganism.

All religions that have ever been and/or those that currently exist are based on one very important thing.....the truth!

And of course truth is in the eye of the beholder.

Originally posted by rufusdrak
Why did they murder THOUSANDS of Palestinians (mostly children and women) in COLD BLOOD after a few errant mortars hit non populated areas in Israel?

A few errant mortars?

THOUSANDS of rockets were rained down upon Israel. Daily. They weren't a few errant mortars. They were purposely sent into Israel to kill Israelis. If any hit nonpopulated areas of Israel, it was because the person shooting the rockets wasn't a good shot. The purpose was to kill as many Israelis as possible.


QUESTION TO SKYFLOATING - Isn't the term 'zionist' defunct? Doesn't the term mean someone who wants to create the nation of Israel? Since Israel exists, does that mean the term is now fulfilled and not useable? At least that's what the term used to mean.

Originally posted by MrPenny

You just did, thank you. You did it, you exposed the inherent irony in my previous post. And what you have failed to realize, or rationalize, is that human history is nothing but repeated instances of people "kicking other people out of their homes". Over and over again.

So that makes it ok ?

wow good thread i am very impressed with the civility

Andre 18 i believe you made a couple good thought provoking points with the creditor vs debtor points.....although groups of other nationalities have experience being creditors as well....

Mr. penny i don't think you are prepared to look at this unbiasedly ....i think you put up walls for reasons you don't even understand......when i said could....you said that makes the question i asked meaningless.....nobody knows anything absolutely IMO....but apparently you think in absolutes....so that me saying Perhaps this is true.i.e could........means it is not worth looking into .........says alot about your thinking.....could be true in this context does not = the uselessness of someone saying the moon could be purple....(i.e) what you infrer when you said we could talk about "could" all day........but according to what your willing to believe it seems when i said "could" it was just enough "mental leeway" you were looking for to rationalize things back into your comfort zone and away from questioning potentially uncomfortable truths.



[edit on 13-3-2009 by cpdaman]

Where is your history? Why is this stupid post even on ATS? There is real scientific evidence (not the made up bunk by our censor/poster/moderator) that their is only one human race. So I must ask why make up a post such as this and then call everybody anti-semites and bigots when they don't agree with you? Supply one single shred of evidence for anything you said please! Whether you want to believe it or not some people want what you have without working for it! These people are called Zionists and have absolutely nothing to do with race.

Originally posted by cpdaman
potentially uncomfortable truths.

Do none of you understand what I'm getting at? Or is it just whistling through your head like a Spring breeze?

You blithely toss out the word "truths"....with nothing real or rational to demonstrate the "truthiness" of your viewpoint. Nothing but some other goober's rhetoric and "conspiracy"...

Gawdamighty.....and I'm the one with the problem. While no one has attempted to seriously address a single question I've asked. Instead, ya'll obfuscate, muddle, assume (one here even admitted some of his viewpoints were assumptions), and dodge.

The tunnel vision exhibited here is incredible.

[edit on 13-3-2009 by MrPenny]

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That's fine...I've already asked the questions that haven't been answered. I'll answer yours.

Originally posted by mybigunit
Do you believe Zionism exists?

No. Zionism as defined is a dead political/nationalist movement.

If so do you feel it is an international agenda or just a national agenda for a Jewish state?

Is this a trick question? By its original definition, Zionism was international....in that it called on Jewish people of the diaspora to settle in an established Jewish homeland of Israel. Now, given that the State of Israel exists, and doesn't appear to be going anywhere, (regardless of what Iran thinks), the "agenda" is over. It's a done deal.

Do you feel Jews control the international banking cartel?

Huh? Define "international banking cartel". You throw that out there like some Southerner mentioning NASCAR. Does an "international banking cartel" exist? I'm having trouble imagining that watching bank after bank fail. Your question is very close to the fallacy of "begging the question"....by throwing in the reference to an organization whose existence hasn't been established.

You know....centuries ago, the Jews were handed the job of banker on a silver platter....and ancient man wasn't stupid, they had an intellect equal to ours. I can't imagine it taking very long for the light to go on....hey, we can make some serious jack doing this......and it doesn't involve digging in dirt or gutting farm animals.....good gig... No one seems to give a hoot that coopers, farriers, weavers, etc...handed off their craft to their offspring....why does it turn into evil when the trade happens to be fiduciary?

Do you feel the international banking cartel runs the world?

That one really is "begging the question".


Your turn.....are these questions and what is implied, what you "feel"? Or, is it what you know and can spell out with some academic rigor and discipline? If it's what you "feel", how can you be sure it isn't the result of poor perception or conversely, the very accurate application of rhetoric and suggestion?

Here's my point....about everything....darn near about everything this discussion has encompassed....

Until people break away from the "micro" view of these type of issues....until they stop looking and perceiving them through the tunnel vision of the Internet....they'll never realize the "macro" view. That view is that what is being discussed here has been going on for all of human history. The jealousy, the suspicion, the mistrust....you name it, been there done that. Doesn't matter what demographic is being maligned or hated....you're simply repeating history.

Many people here really are convinced they have the "big picture" and they are "in the know".....when all that's happened is your attention has been focused thanks to TCP/IP and the Internet.

I'm the one that is having trouble with this picture? I'm asking people to expand their perceptions and the scope of this issue, and I'm catching grief?

A quick little reminder for all those saying that there is no Zionist conspiracy to take over the world.

Hello…it is clearly outlined in at least one of the books the various cult members love to thump and believe in.

It’s called the book of Revelations.

Now I have to confess I am not a bible reader or a church member, some tragic little accident at my first service that I also volunteered to be a candelabra boy seemed to have occurred with my candle lighting stick that kind of cut the service short that day.

Whew talk about a close one and the things an eight year old has to do to avoid being baptized!

Now if there were only a way to get my foreskin back I would be set.

But…there isn’t and in this book of Revelations it kind of clearly says that the Anti-Christ will establish a one world government and rule the world from his throne of the Third Temple built on the ruins of the first two.

It’s pretty clear on the RULE the WORLD part, and pretty clear on from where.

This means one of three things, A., the Anti-Christ is singularly more powerful than the most advanced arsenal and best trained military in the Middle East and is going to have to kill every person in Israel to sit on that thrown.

B. The people of Israel will happily allow him to sit on the Throne in Jerusalem and rule the world from it, which I guess if he was hiring the closet people to be able to drop of applications since it is in Israel would be Jewish.

C. The people of Israel will all convert to Satanism so Jews won’t in fact be ruling the world just Satanists, and when Christ returns which by the way Jews not only do not believe in but have an especially inventive level of hell to keep him in according to the Talmud they will give back all the lands that the Anti-Christ took but retain a little bit more than their 1967 borders.

Now this is what I love, the Christian Zionists are all eager to hear the trump and go live in heaven with Amen even though they kind of think his name is Jehovah or Yahweh. Hopefully Amen will not be put off by this little bit of insulting confusion to him, and the good Christians won’t be put off learning how to walk like Egyptians.

Now the Christian Zionists are eager to see this happen, because after a while Jesus returns with a great army and turns the earth into a Paradise where they all live happily ever after for 1,000 years in a society that presumably has Jerusalem as the epicenter and capital still.

Here comes the wind up and the pitch…one little Problem, the Hebrews do not believe in Christ? They have him consigned to the nastiest part of Hell for all eternity and well I can’t even say what’s going on with the poor Virgin Mary other than its pretty inventive.

Now it would seem to me as a non-believer that something is just a little amiss here, Christians are prepared to let the Anti-Christ rule to herald in the return of Christ.

Yet the Hebrews do not believe he is going to return because in their eyes he was not a prophet nor a Son of God but an evil usurper and pretender preaching false doctrine.

This is one case where politics make for very strange bed fellows.

The whole thing from the beginning has been about the conquest of the world and for it to be ruled by Jerusalem.

Yes of course there is a conspiracy. It’s written in black and white in the books the laity of these cults love to thump.

No rocket science here.

I am actually kind of in awe how it was all planned out and is all being played out, talk about some detailed long range planning.

I personally don’t think it can be pulled off but it sure is not stopping all involved from giving it a good effort for the Gipper.

It’s pretty silly to say there is no conspiracy, its nonsense to say Israel isn’t the epicenter of it.

The tail does not wag the dog, Rothschild handles the Vatican’s banking.

Here is a thought for you, the book in question regarding this thread was released to discredit the very thing more or less that is happening as being a lie someone else wrote at another place in time about someone or something else.

How much would anyone like to bet that a Rothschild commissioned the original work now being plagiarized?

We have seen incredible long range strategic planning by the Rothschild family.

No proof just a suspicion.

The conspiracy itself rests in the New Testament written for Christians to train them to play their part in it and induce them to do so.

It clearly states in the Book of Revelation One World Government ruled by the Anti-Christ and all Christian Zionists do believe that is essential and will happen to usher in the return of the Christ that Jews themselves don’t believe in.

How could, why would, anyone deny this is a conspiracy?