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When does a group belief become a cult and why?

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posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

EDIT: It should also be mentioned that one can follow the principles and beliefs of a particular faith and not be part of the umbrella organization.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by Paul_Richard]


Absolutely.

True.




posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by SS,Naga
Benevolent cults? You mean like good cop, bad cop? Good religion, bad religion?

Religion is ignorance, control fo the lower mind, regardless of it's advertising.

Several here have knowledgeably posted about the necessity of developing alone, when an awareness level is reached where they can begin to question on their own. Until that time, they are chattel.


Do you think groups/cults may help people reach this level of awarness though? Play a part so to speak? However the problem with this is, when this level of awarness is reached, how do they leave? Some cults dont allow people to leave do they, they all live in the far out back cut off, unable to even contact the outside world.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 


Ultimately you can only help yourself. At one point you gotta drop the crutches and walk on your own.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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I also participate in a UFO thread on ATS and I have to say that you guys have a totally different vibe in here. It seems to me that you are actually having a discussion



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by Paul_Richard
 


What attracted you to Scientology? Just curious ... In my part of the world we're hearing horror stories about dependency and financial exploitation.

Sorry for the miscommunication.

I am not a Scientologist.


I am a Solist Mystic.



Sorry. My mistake!



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by Mr Green
 


Ultimately you can only help yourself. At one point you gotta drop the crutches and walk on your own.



Dropping the crutches can be very painful



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Nichiren
I also participate in a UFO thread on ATS and I have to say that you guys have a totally different vibe in here. It seems to me that you are actually having a discussion


Yes it does seem so, however I will say you have caught us on a good day! But yes this thread does have a good vibe, I really hope it stays this way for all of us. I can see how we are all learning even though we think vastly different things in here.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Mr GreenDo you think groups/cults may help people reach this level of awarness though? Play a part so to speak? However the problem with this is, when this level of awarness is reached, how do they leave? Some cults dont allow people to leave do they, they all live in the far out back cut off, unable to even contact the outside world.


Some are able to leave but won't leave out of fear that's been instilled in them. It's like an inivisible fence, the followers are taught not to go outside of the boundaries. I recall watching a documentary, and journalists joined a group under cover to secretly tape what was going on, and at one point the journalist was finding it difficult to stay on task. She admitted she was beginning to fall for all that the leader was preaching.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by violet]



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Green

Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by Mr Green
 


Ultimately you can only help yourself. At one point you gotta drop the crutches and walk on your own.



Dropping the crutches can be very painful


Yes, but what is the alternative?



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by headlightone
 






I am not well versed as yourself with all this and don't really understand how the energy is taken.


Ideas and emotions consume the energy. Leader, who is likely charismatic, has lots of energy and idea consumes his energy and imposes itself on others and so consumes them. They don't have enough knowledge to debunk it and resist it. It is not that those who are higher in hierarchy consume those who are lower. It is the idea (or ideas) that consume them all.

Don't be fooled by appearances.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 


Well, that was one interesting excursion into the light! It certainly sounds like you saw a Guardian! I have heard other people mention similar (very honest), and this always thrills. The name I give to these Guardians/Rulers/Watchers over the human race (Caretakers-Consumers: nothing benevolent!) is: The Melchizedeks. And if you are not aware of this, be very careful: they are the Contiguous Sticky-Uz for this region, and will have you worshipping them in one form or another, fast: reject one 'sect' of theirs, and you will run straight into another of their 'arms' of worship: they are the ones at the top, the Controllers of the Food-Chain.

Anybody tell you different, and they are describing lesser light awareness. These are the Inceptors of All the Earth's (humanity) religions (see previous post). Sorry if that sounds bad, but the Truth is not welcome here on Earth, and often hurts like hell.


SS,Naga...this is quite explosive information, do you ever worry "they" may visit you (whoever they may be!), have you ever been pressurized not to speak of this?


The only blockage I have ever encountered was from my avatar namesake, who told me after It had transmitted The WORD to me over seven days and seven nights, that it was "Futuretense,' and that humanity was not ready for it. The knowledge would easly alter the Course of Life on Earth, if it could be understood, I've no doubt. At one time, only three people on the Earth understood Einstein's Theory of Relativity (or so I read), who then taught it to others, who made it middle school subject matter, today. Such was not the Intent of this being I met in 1984 (who came in a ship).

Had what I have learned been taught to me by others (beside this naga being), I would be subject to their approval and control: you might keep your eyes open for statements that resound this: some will say, "what I have been permitted to reveal." The highest inner knowledge is still much controlled, at least as far as it is coherent. Bit's and pieces can be garnered and synthesized into a cohesive and accurate structure, but this takes many years, for most. This is Wisdom, and it is carefully guarded. What is available to the public is mostly cheese bits, left to be found and gather people in (to the clutches of the holders).

I hasten to add, some charge, for a mere few days seminar, $250 up to $8,000, and more. Success pays well for those who prey upon the sleepers: mostly they are nidged just enough to stir. I find the people with true Wisdom have earned it the hard way: Alone...some with a little help, if they were lucky (like myself).

Other than that, I owe my allegiance to nOne.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by SS,Naga]



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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Any irrationality (such as believing) has a tendency to become protectionist - split away and divide society - either with us or against us.

There is a reason for this delusional obsession to become a cult - because any belief has no rationality in it - they will try to avoid being confronted with with questioning, so they would preferably see everybody join them - no questions asked.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by FIFIGI
 


Ahh...perfect description of christianity (having been born & raised to such). Cult, sect, relgion, all the same, all nefarious and murky.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 


I think this question has been answered by a resounding: No. Of course, that is hard to see, especially when someone yearns strongly for light that they know exists, but has been elusive to them.

With all your self-development, your personal inquiry should be the achievement of Right Intent. It is Intent that drives (impels) one forward.



[edit on 4-3-2009 by SS,Naga]



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by Nichiren
 





What makes you say the following remark?

"What is most certainly lost is just the concrete, "private" historical agenda, a biography so to say."

Have you ever considered that your current state as a human being is the sum of your private, historical agenda?


I was referring to particular point of view characteristic to each individual being, which is tied to its physical form - like you or me as individuals in this life, our personal agendas, where we were born, where we are now, etc. This has to be lost because it is completely about physical existence.

But our experience, that is, our knowledge that we possess cannot be destroyed and is paired with the next physical form which is born in its own specific situation. How confusing would it be if we continued the same time line projected onto new born baby's mind, just try to imagine


When Buddha says: I have lived million lives, he means he has the full experience of million lives, I doubt that he could recollect personal agenda of each of those lives. What he possesses is the principal knowledge of how things work, which in turn determines his attitude towards life in general. He has no more doubts, nothing more left to verify, this is why he is enlightened - awakened, and now he is resigned.

This resignation is called "noble resignation" because it represents characteristic impassioned relationship with Samsara.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 





Dropping the crutches can be very painful


Pain will pass, rejoice while it lasts!


Face pain, don't run away


The most important thing a man can do is not feel sorry for himself, or anybody else.

With this attitude mastered, you are prepared for anything.
And you will have no fear.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by Nichiren
 





What makes you say the following remark?

"What is most certainly lost is just the concrete, "private" historical agenda, a biography so to say."

Have you ever considered that your current state as a human being is the sum of your private, historical agenda?


I was referring to particular point of view characteristic to each individual being, which is tied to its physical form - like you or me as individuals in this life, our personal agendas, where we were born, where we are now, etc. This has to be lost because it is completely about physical existence.

But our experience, that is, our knowledge that we possess cannot be destroyed and is paired with the next physical form which is born in its own specific situation. How confusing would it be if we continued the same time line projected onto new born baby's mind, just try to imagine



I like the way you think. Do you mind if I probe a bit further?

You keep saying that:


This has to be lost because it is completely about physical existence.


Ultimately there is no difference between matter (physical existence) and mind (experience). I don't subscribe to this dualistic view. Consciousness and form are intertwined. Buddhists believe that even inorganic objects have consciousness. I think that our "personal agendas" cannot be destroyed. That's why I believe in past life regressions. It's all in our DNA, which in turn is more than just amino acids.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by DangerDeath

Pain will pass, rejoice while it lasts!


Face pain, don't run away


The most important thing a man can do is not feel sorry for himself, or anybody else.

With this attitude mastered, you are prepared for anything.
And you will have no fear.




I have faced this pain three times and failed. This time i am determined to face it.

It is the only way, it must be done, the alternative is even more painful.

You say rejoice while the pain lasts? why?

I know this time is different, the pain was immense, I felt it burn inside me in one last burst of energy. I faced it, I looked it straight in the eye and cryed. Then it started to pass and I felt free.

Ive wanted to be free for so long, but just dare not face it, it was painful but now Im starting to see it is what we all must do eventually.

I like this thread, I really do.




[edit on 4-3-2009 by Mr Green]



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by Mr Green
 


I commend you for facing your personal pain. Ultimately it is our own actions that count and not the pretty rhetoric or any belief system.

Soldier on!



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by SS,Naga
Well, that was one interesting excursion into the light! It certainly sounds like you saw a Guardian! I have heard other people mention similar (very honest), and this always thrills. The name I give to these Guardians/Rulers/Watchers over the human race (Caretakers-Consumers: nothing benevolent!) is: The Melchizedeks. And if you are not aware of this, be very careful: they are the Contiguous Sticky-Uz for this region, and will have you worshipping them in one form or another, fast: reject one 'sect' of theirs, and you will run straight into another of their 'arms' of worship: they are the ones at the top, the Controllers of the Food-Chain.



I knew I had travelled far, I still wonder who he was, maybe he was a guardian.

Regarding your quote above, as we break free from one sect we most probably run straight into another. I will never follow anothers beliefs now except my own, I know this is true because I have faced the pain, it felt different from past attempts at facing this break away pain. I know I am now alone...and this is exactly how it should be.


Guess what...its not all that scary after all!



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