What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

reply to post by undo


anyway, that's the reason they will not support gay marriage. they believe it's an eternal thing and that would be a horrible mistake in their estimation.
so what they dont have to support it but at the same time what right do they have to deny another groups desire for equality and happiness. what they did was to help oppress a group they have,( by their own admission of) no concept of..

The reason people post so many christain de-bunking threads, is simply because Muslims don't come knocking on doors at 7am and impose their beliefs on others, It is because you fight others with your same faith, and conclude that the small differences between protestants and catholics make one better then the other. It is because your religious leaders are more interested in money, then what they preach. It is because of living inn western society your beliefs are taught forcibly to us during our junior years, so we know the ins and outs of your cult, better then any other.
Next time you post a pointless thread like this, ask yourself that question not other people, because no matter what they tell you, you will never accept the truth.

reply to post by SumnerKagan

If something others have written or said rattles your faith, or you’re feeling persecuted by their words ... that’s your problem, not theirs.
Now, don’t get your britches in a bunch ... Hear me out:
You’re right, SumnerKagan, any belief can be “debunked” or picked apart ... primarily because it IS based on faith. And to a lesser degree, its rigid adherence to the ‘interpretations’ of whatever writings it is based upon will always conflict with other ‘interpretations’ or other writings. And, as is very often the case, religious beliefs are inconsistent with the facts born from contemporary science.
As a point of order; I am Christian. (I facetiously referred to my belief as a ‘recovering Catholic’) Being Italian I was forced fed the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church in my youth. Due to the strict approach of that religious branch, my inherent rebellious nature, and the ‘scientist’ in me (Show me tangible proof!) I abandoned a trust in faith and embraced an agnostic view for more than 20 years. After a few things “happened” to me, and knowing there is no such thing as ‘coincidence’ (I’ll not go into it all here) I am now convinced faith has it’s purpose in our lives. Mine is in God, and the Son of God – Jesus.
This is not a sermon and I don’t preach.
However
My God is NOT the one that ‘requires’ you to be ‘born again’. (Actually, I agree with my Mom here -we kind of think God did all right the first time around. lol)
Nor does He insist you be exclusively Catholic, or Protestant or any of the other hundreds of branches and off-shoots of Christianity.
Nor would he EVER ask me to impose my belief on anyone else.
Nor is He a segregationist.
Nor does He discriminate.
Nor is He prejudice against every other religion, save for mine. (Or yours, for that matter)
Nor is His Grace so narrow in scope as to deny a place in Heaven (Or whatever your term for that plane of existence is) to all but those who agree with one particular religious sector.
Nor is the Bible (old and new) the only testament of existence. There are many works that tell of an entity possessing omnipotence over all things, eternal and ephemeral.
He is:
Known by many names and heralded by many cultures as their one true God. He is the God of Christians AND Jews. Muslims AND Buddhists. And, yes, He is also the God of atheists and agnostics – whether they believe or not is immaterial.
Forgiving of all but the most sacred of transgressions toward our fellow man – that of taking the life of another without cause. In a word; murder.

Now, let me ask you this:
Does your religion, and/or its leaders, teach you to be forgiving and accepting of others – irregardless of their own beliefs? Then, why would you think your God would reject those very concepts you accept as true and shun any who doesn’t believe as you do? Is anyone’s God that bias?
Let’s say ... You’re Christian. Do you think your God would turn away a Jew?
Remember, Judaism pre-dates Christianity by several thousand years. That’s a lot of souls (and Saul’s) who already ascended to “Heaven.”
So, what ... When Jesus was born did God announce, “Okay ... Sorry Moses, but listen up here. And this goes for the rest of you lot as well. There’s been a ... well, a change in the prerequisites that allowed your acceptance here. Only the followers of my kid, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, are permitted to enter or even be a part of paradise now. Yep, this is effective immediately. Come on, off you go! No loitering! No, sorry ... None of the rest of your family from now until forever can come here either. Yeah, I know ... I really am gonna miss the Motzah ball soup, but hey, what am I supposed to do? Just let anyone stay here?”
Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? And, you can interchange either role in the above example with ANY believe ... It would still sound just as narrow minded and ignorant, right?
So ... do we agree that God, yours AND mine, isn’t prejudice and is very accepting and probably has the forethought and graciousness to provide a place in his infinite crib for everyone? (Again, with the exception of the really devilish ones, of course)
Okay, in the interest of compromise, and because we’re all taught in every religion that those who don’t believe what we do must suffer, even just a little ...
And/or if it makes you feel any better about letting “others” into the place you feel is rightfully yours and yours alone, exclusively ... then how about this;
“Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Hear Ye! Starting from now until forever ...” (Or, at least till we go back into negotiations)
“Whenever a soul born of a different belief than (Insert your religion here) knocks on the Pearly Gates where (Insert the name of your Deity here) resides, to enter they must first take a crash course on (Insert your religion here) and upon graduation (or the GED equivalent) must pay a penance of (insert punishment here - Prayer, Contrition, Fasting, Gold Coins, Cutting the front lawn for a year, etc -)”
Sound fair to you?

ACTUALLY, it's a misnomer that it is based purely on faith. We don't just have a personal faith, but nearly 7000 years of historical documentation and artifacts, not to mention other testimonies, some which are eye witness testimonies. The real and central issue is - is any of that legit. And that's what the argument finally boils down to.

Jesus is real. He spoke to me, after I'd spent most of my life disbelieving vehemently - I wanted to debunk it all. It (the New Testament) is an extraordinary story, one which I did not consider possible to be true, but it is. Unfortunately, I think that Christian culture has become very messed up though. Good on you for your faith. The debunkers are really wasting their time.

I consider myself a Christian. That does not mean I blindly accept all the ideas and dogma of the religion set forth by men. Let's face it - there are many Christians out there who are closed minded and abrasive regarding any spiritual ideas that are not 100% in line with their views. It seems that the more close minded, the more in your face they are.
I've had people want to "save" me that didn't even know me. When I tell them I'm a Christian it gets more specific, as in my views on things from social issues to obscure biblical verses.
I understand the debunking threads. I feel Christians ask for it. You don't see any Buddhist debunking threads, do you? It has been said the meek will inherit the earth. The Christians who feel they are being constantly attacked need to learn meekness.

I can give you a reason why Christianity is being shoved down the toilet constantly- You have snake oil salesmen who put up multi million dollar churches, offer false hope- and live off the backs of the poor- and give back nearly NOTHING. I can say this, because I have been on the frontlines and have *seen* it. What's worse, God looks like he's blessing these hucksters left and right! While people like me, who try to be right, follow the Bible, and pray for what is good, right, honest, pure- get NOTHING but promises, pain, suffering, and told by the "godly" how wrong and stupid we are- because they are the ones with the cash, the cars, the big families, the fancy suits, ect ad nauseum.

Other religions may be basically wrong- but they at least do what they say they do- which is why LESS criticism is heaped on them. Maybe all you "Christians" need to step back, and review your lives- give away the money LIKE YOU ARE TOLD TO. Give up the fancy cars LIKE YOU ARE TOLD TO. treat people like people, and not like general filth LIKE YOU ARE TOLD TO. Quit being hypocritical assholes and start acting like the Bible tells you to!


And I await the first one to come stomping up to my post screaming how I have personally offended them. That is the BIGGEST sign of a hypocrite- and that is exactly what I will call you.

[edit on 9-2-2009 by wylekat]

reply to post by ShadowKing


Absolutely agree I'm happy that a few here have a open mind, and aren't willing to follow the social norm that IS religion. Fact of the matter is christianity is the largest growing religion in the US for one reason, which you stated, money. The seperation between church and state is non-existent, why else would our president be sworn in by a prayer?

reply to post by ShadowKing


Absolutely agree I'm happy that a few here have a open mind, and aren't willing to follow the social norm that IS religion. Fact of the matter is christianity is the largest growing religion in the US for one reason, which you stated, money. The seperation between church and state is non-existent, why else would our president be sworn in by a prayer?

reply to post by Hellish-D


Like shadow king we're the few still trying to speak our open mind about having none of this rediculousness. Hard to believe people don't think super powers are possible but they'll easily believe in fairy tales. Keep up the good debating I've enjoyed your point of view.

reply to post by SumnerKagan

My response from things said on page 12 for those interested.
reply to post by Ridhya

Originally posted by SumnerKagan
I am concerned with the unusually high frequency of this type of post, and the pure venom that seems to be allowed to accompany them when it comes to negative posts directed at Christianity. At some point, this type of action leaves the domain of "debate", and enters the realm of a "mission".

As I said, it is "allowed" because of freedom of speech. You're acting as if people are promoting genocide of the Christians! You are outraged over nothing! You should be more outraged when people LOSE this ability to question! And I doubt you'd be so voiceful on a "Why Atheists are Stupid" thread. Theoretical, at the least.

I have seen, first hand, what this religion has done for people. First to pop into my head, is my best friend, who has been building an orphanage in Kenya, brick by brick, through his church, for the last 5 years. Why? Because he felt that God wanted him to do this. Now, that was an example that is very personal to me. But, there are countless other examples of Christianity doing good out there. Usually, the people that have seen the most of that good, are people that have really had hard times, and hit rock bottom in one way or another. Then, after looking around for help when it seems hopeless, they sometimes stumble across some type of Christian-based charity, outreach, fellowship, etc. Yes, it really happens.

I never denied that there are great charitable organisations out there! It's just when you say "few have done as much as Christianity" that I am shocked. You know this how? By living in a Muslim-majority country where Islamic charities DON'T help people? Seriously, get a clue. Just because you are exposed to one type more, doesn't mean it is better or more prolific. You also seem to conveniently forget there are those who care not for the poor, I've known some rich Christians who viewed Africans as "victims of their own misdoings", and cited Muslims as "not worthy of His help".

Maybe they starred and flagged the thread because they had been feeling a bit persecuted, and felt strongly about somebody voicing what they had been feeling.

It's hard to feel persecuted when you're in all honesty not. No one's forcing you to read those posts, no ones forcing you to use this site, NO ONE IS KILLING YOUR FAMILY FOR BEING CHRISTIAN. Im so sick of people throwing around words like persecution and assault and agenda. Again, if people could stop from constantly lying to themselves, they'd realise that they only "star and flag" (both literally and figuratively) those views that agree with theirs!!! Im not singling you out, sooo many atheists do this too. This is all making me so sick! Everyone is feeling so selfish and self-pitying for some reason when the truth is, EVERYONE BLEEDS THE SAME. Im going to start my own thread Im so DAMN sick of these things.

reply to post by Ridhya


It's almost ludacris the rediculous double standard they portray. I'veenjoyed reading your posts as well keep up the good fight.

reply to post by undo


So your admitting that Christianity may be false????????????????????????????????????????????

Also I'm quoting you here, "We have nearly 7000 years of ancient artifacts and religious testimony". So since "Christianity" started around 350 AD and is basically a mash up of other religions at the time, done so by Constantine. How could you possibily have 7000 years of anything refering to Christianity, Since it's based on the New Testement and it is a relatively new religon maybe 1700 years old.

[edit on 9-2-2009 by TNT13]

[edit on 9-2-2009 by TNT13]

[edit on 9-2-2009 by TNT13]

Originally posted by undo
ACTUALLY, it's a misnomer that it is based purely on faith. We don't just have a personal faith, but nearly 7000 years of historical documentation and artifacts, not to mention other testimonies, some which are eye witness testimonies. The real and central issue is - is any of that legit. And that's what the argument finally boils down to.

Interpretation is Interpretation. Ancient scripts can and are interpreted in many ways.

They were also written by man who interpreted events he may not have fully understood.

Yes there is historical fact in the bible - but the bible is not fact. In my opinion.

As I was raised Christian - I have no qualms about debunking it - plus feel presenting other - and in my opinion more realistic viewpoints is a right.

This is a discussion forum you have to join to participate. I would never walk up to someone on the street wearing a cross and tell them what they believe is bunk.

I agree with the OP however as a non practising catholic I turn the other cheek at the cheap insults and religious trolling on the usually excellent site

I personally took to heart the teachings of Christ.
The result was as he said; that He and the Father will show himself to you.

The revelation came as something that most men and women hope in their lives to see and hear.

Believers and non believers debate. One Iron hoping to sharpen the other.

Sword against sword, might against might, only one sword wins in the end.

The Truth.

Peace

Originally posted by HIFIGUY

Sword against sword, might against might, only one sword wins in the end.

The Truth.

Interesting perspective coming from a conspiracy site. I think we can show dozens of examples where 'the truth' has lost in the end.
9/11
JFK assassination
Roswell
etc.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
I personally took to heart the teachings of Christ.
The result was as he said; that He and the Father will show himself to you.

The revelation came as something that most men and women hope in their lives to see and hear.

Believers and non believers debate. One Iron hoping to sharpen the other.

Sword against sword, might against might, only one sword wins in the end.

The Truth.

Peace

Can't say I'm particularly enamored of your euphemisms - and then you end it with Peace?

Truth? One Truth? Perhaps what you believe creates your own individual truth.

christianity has a long history of believe as we do or else.. they use the basic fearmongering that the early church used in the dark ages and midevil times..( inquisition anyone) but then they get hypocritical and say they werent real christians.. (choke) and not them, then turn around and use the same tatics to dehumanize and belittle others who dont agree with them 100%.. then they have the audacity to approach people and spew their rhetoric and when they get a little truth or intelligent questioning they get pissy call u a devil worshiper and cause u a bunch of greif.. they deserve to get what they dish out.. imho.. and to pull what they pull i can back that up with scripture.. which i know most of them tend to really hate

Originally posted by Hellish-D
Interesting perspective coming from a conspiracy site. I think we can show dozens of examples where 'the truth' has lost in the end.
9/11
JFK assassination
Roswell
etc.

The Truth is as it is, regardless of your spin. There is one that knows, be they the participants, occupants, or victims.

And even though the evidence may not be apparent, the Truth still exists, and is unchangable. JFK was shot. Rosswell is a place. The question then becomes do you believe you will ever know the truth of either matter.

The Truth never goes away. The issue becomes, would you be believe it if it was right in front of your face. And would you know the Truth if it was given to you. Perhaps your own doubt would be your greatest stumbling block.

Jesus Christ
After all, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered up that will remain undisclosed.

Peace


[edit on 9-2-2009 by HIFIGUY]