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What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

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posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by HIFIGUY
No..to refresh your memory, I thought you were done debating the same old issue.

And secondly, the simple analogy that two people can look at the same thing and see 2 different perspectives.


Peace


I am done debating the issue. I just got a chuckle out of your evidence.

Perspectives, maybe. And yes, there may be several logical conclusions. But at the same time, there are several illogical conclusions that can be eliminated.

If I see a fallacy, I'll call it out. If you have a problem with that, please complain to the powers that be. If not, please continue your debate elsewhere.




posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by TruthParadox
reply to post by badmedia
 


I think that Jesus is a good guy, if he ever existed
.
My 'beef' is not with him, just the people who are somehow ok with the thought that uncle Bob is going to be tortured for eternity just because he's a realist.
Seriously, think about it. That's really pretty sick once you get down to it.

One of the main reasons I argue against Christianity is because of the belief in Hell. I believe it's not mentaly healthy to be brainwashed into thinking it's ok that someone who doesn't believe in the extraordinary will be tortured forever.


Such is the point. Why allow what people to do in his name to ruin and make his actual message get lost? If I couldn't seperate Jesus from the rest of religion and such, I couldn't follow it. In which case I would just explain the same things I do now, just no use of the bible.

Rather than dismiss it all, I'm determined to bring out the truth and put things where they belong. If the person can't see the manipulation between the words of Jesus and the Christians and church of today, then it doesn't really matter what they believe.

Kind like that movie Office Space, where the guy is named Michael Bolton, and he says "why should I change my name, he's the one who sucks not me".

Hell is possible however. I don't think it is eternal though, but could be. God isn't going to put you in there for eternity though. Such is to say God is a worse parent than any human. No parent punishes their child for eternity, it is done to teach a lesson.

If you put your finger on the stove eye, it is going to burn you. Obviously you remove your finger from the stove eye and learn the lesson. However if for some reason you just refused to remove your finger from the stove eye, then you are going to keep getting burned.

Just remember you reap what you sow.


[edit on 8-2-2009 by badmedia]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by amazed

Originally posted by sotp
reply to post by infolurker
 


Whilst plenty of people have died as a result of both religion and atheism, I don't think it's fair to tar followers of either doctrine with the same brush. I don't believe the Christian posters on this board are responsible for the crusades, nor do I believe the atheists here are responsible for the actions of Hitler or Stalin. In both sides of that argument those in power have corrupted doctrines to serve their own twisted needs. Of course that is wrong, but it has nothing to do with the average ATS poster.


Actually Hitler was not an atheist, he believed in the bibles god.

Hitler held strong faith in all his convictions. He justified his fight for the German people and against Jews by using Godly and Biblical reasoning. Indeed, one of his most revealing statements makes this quite clear:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

nobeliefs.com...


I'm sorry, your statement does not prove Hitler followed the God of the Bible.

Almighty Creator and Lord could mean Satan also....Hitler was known to belong to the Thule society, and participated in seances where demons were called up


Another interesting analogy is Hitler and his "spiritual" awakening within of the Thule Society. The Thule Society is the German Brotherhood of Death secret society and it has as it's symbol , the skull and crossbones. This was also the Nazi SS symbol and the Freemasons use the skull and crossbones in their ceremonies. The extremely secretive USA society , Skull and Bones is believed to be the American branch of the original German Thule Society ! Ref: . The Thule Society The leader of the Thule Society in the 1930s was Dietrich Eckhart .He was Hitler's mentor who nurtured and led him into the world of the supernatural . In the Thule group in Munich , Eckhart, Alfred Rosenberg and Hitler held seances and communicated with demons. Eckhart believed that a dark spirit had informed him that he was the guardian of the coming "great one" , the "Antichrist". Eckhart said on his deathbed ; " Follow Hitler ; he will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the secret doctrine, opened his centres in vision and given him the means to communicate with the powers." When Eckhart had completed his "training" of Hitler ; Hitler described his spiritual experiences as a transformation and believed his had been "Born Anew", "Born Again"!


www.missingpersons-ireland.freepress-freespeech.com... freemasonryandsatanism.htm



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by sezsue
 


You're using a questionable source, although that alone does not prove its inaccuracy, it should be taken into account.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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free will: an omniscient omnipresent omnipotent God creates a rock so big, even he can't lift it.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Omnipotent means that he must be able to lift it, otherwise it is a limit to his power.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Hellish-D]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by Hellish-D
 


ah but if he's all powerful, he can create whatever he wants, including something he can't control.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by Hellish-D
reply to post by undo
 


Omnipotent means that he must be able to lift it, otherwise it is a limit to his power.


Actually, part of free will and such is the power to limit it and give it away. If he was unable to limit himself then he would not be all powerful.

As such, if he can lift it or not is simply a choice. He can choose to play by the rules and not be able to lift it, and as long as he chooses to play by those rules he will not be able to. But he can also choose to not longer follow those rules, and then it will be liftable again.

Choice.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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imo, all religious institutions are insane.

But Christianity takes the cake.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by undo
 



free will: an omniscient omnipresent omnipotent God creates a rock so big, even he can't lift it.


This was actually quite dissected in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is the human weakness to equate everything on our level of perception. He can choose to look into the future as he can choose not to. The ultimate power is to not be limited at all. He may exist in parallel universes. There is no ceiling on him except for those he puts on himself in order to make the Game more interesting.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by sezsue
 


Do your research please, and use reputable sources.

A lot of people just want to believe that Hitler was not Christian (Catholic), it makes them feel better.

Adolf Hitler was brought up as a Roman Catholic.

In Mein Kampf Hitler wrote... "What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race...so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe...Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence."

"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."

Hitler's reference to God as the "Lord of Creation" and the necessity of obeying "His will" along with several references to Jesus, reveals the infusion of Christianity into his thinking. Other sources also show Hitler's Christian thinking. He notes an unpublished manuscript where Hitler sketched out his world-view with similar Christian references, and he gives as an example a speech on April 1922 where Hitler said that Jesus was "the true God".

en.wikipedia.org...

You can find the information in other places, but the wiki is an easy link with other references. Also I would suggest reading Hitler's book, Mein Kampf.

Personally, I do not care to "debunk" or "bash" on Christianity, I would just like for Christians to stop pushing their beliefs in my face. Keep your beliefs, enjoy them, I hope your beliefs bring you peace, love, joy and all that.

I just wish that Christians would allow others that same respect. But I sure won't hold my breath.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by YeshuaWarrior

Wow!!! Star from me...that describes exactly how I feel. Raised Catholic myself, and never felt like it even meant anything, something was missing. They don't read the Bible, the truth is obscured, everything is controlled by the Pope, and Priest and all the many layers in between.

Most organized religion is exactly like that, and a few other systems as well.

The thing is, that is exactly what Jesus came to deliver us from, sin and rules made up by religious leaders to control us and make it harder to find God.

God wants us to have a personal relationship with him, that's what it's all about. When we do, we will want to do what he wants us to do, it will change us completely, and give us peace of mind. Everyone who has that relationship has a peace about them that others envy.

And that's why a lot of people bash Christianity, because of the false Christians that make God and Jesus look bad, and second, because they don't want to think there might be something out there with the right and ability to judge their behavior, and they are afraid, that there might be.

Of course, this is just my opinion, it WAS me, once, but no more.
 



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by badmedia


I don't need to review your other threads, I can look at your so-called logic on this one.

ME: "While YOU may believe that God will zap more oil into the ground, the rest of us do not."

YOU: "And now you are going to blame a religion for using up all the resources? That is just a silly and baseless claim. And I'm pretty sure the entire "fossil fuel" idea has been debunked with recent discoveries. "

ME: "No, I'm going to blame religion on fostering this idea that birth control is bad, that abortion is a sin, that every sexual act should end up in another human being. You might be "pretty sure", but you're wrong. You have no idea about the concept of peak oil as so aptly demonstrated by your comments."

YOU: "You have no idea just how informed my opinion is. None at all. But another thing I'm sick of is having these stereotypes thrown on me. Just as you have done. You literally have no idea, and you are just making baseless claims on me."

ME: "Actually, I do because you told me so. When you make comments that we aren't running out of oil, you've demonstrated that you haven't researched the topic and you're clueless about it. If you had, you would know that oil is a finite resource as long as we are confined to this environment (planet), and sooner or later it will run out. So the question becomes one of consumption and demand versus overall supply."

YOU: "Please, just because I didn't take this thread completely off-topic to discuss oil and such doesn't mean I have demonstrated any lack of knowledge about oil. I'm not sure if you have been keeping up with recent discoveries in the solar system, but oil obviously does not come from dinosuars or biology. Titan's Surface Organics Surpass Oil Reserves on Earth. . ."

ME: "First you said there was plenty of oil, now you're claiming that oil on a distant moon is some far off locale of the solar system is a viable alternative to our peak oil problems on this planet? You honestly believe this is the answer? This was the fruit of your investigation and research?"

YOU: "I just said oil isn't as limited as they once thought. I told you before middle of this topic is hardly the place for a discussion for the topic of oil."

Let's examine your logic displayed here.

I say that we've reached peak oil on this planet because of over-population driven by a religiously driven imperative to breed too many people for the resources on the planet.

You claim it's not true, we haven't reached peak oil (I'll be sure to pass your comments along to James Howard Kunstler) because the idea of "fossil fuels" has been "debunked." (Whatever that means).

Your argument against this is that there are plenty of hydrocarbons on Titan, which is 8 years, one-way from here, therefore, we're not out of resources. . . because resources exist elsewhere in the Universe, we're not depleted here on Earth.

That is like saying there isn't a drought in China because Egypt has plenty of water.

You think your reasoning is actually logical and rational. That is what is so frightening. You're incapable of sticking to the topic and then you offer ridiculous and absurd reasons under the guise of, "it could happen."

Yeah, so next time, why not just say monkeys could fly out your butt, wave a magic wand and create plenty of oil for everyone to drive their car? It makes about as much sense.

Better yet, you probably think God will zap it back into the ground.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by amazed

Yes, Hitler is another great example that allows people to bash Christianity, however,I don't care whether he called himself Christian or Catholic, or used the name of Jesus, it doesn't mean he was a true follower of Jesus, or that he even believed in the God of the Bible.

Certainly his actions uphold his occultist background rather than a Godly background. Anyone that has a biblical background should not be following occultic practices, actually no-one should.

It's pretty well documented that Hitler was into a lot of practices that could be considered more consistent with worship of Satan, than worship of the one true God.

I'll give you another link on the subject, but if you don't agree, I guess 10 links probably would not be enough, and it's not really the topic of this thread, anyway.

www.stargods.org...

 




Oh, and even the demons acknowledged Jesus, as it says in the Bible

[edit on 8-2-2009 by sezsue]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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The bible is a chosen compilation of ancient scripts written by man.

Until someone can come up with some kind of tangible proof that Jesus is the son of an omnipotent god - - the bible is a joke as proof.

Now - I happen to believe that advanced civilizations had a great deal to do with the evolvement of modern man. I believe men/beings are sent to earth through out our existence to help human-man evolve. They would be called prophets.

I have no problem believing one of these beings is the one referred to as Jesus. He was probably a hybrid. Mary was probably an abductee.

Being originally raised Christian - - I find absolutely nothing tangible or believable that makes any sense in the way events of ancient writings are interpreted to form the Christian belief.

I don't see how debunking what I was raised to believe can be wrong.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by sezsue
 


If you look at my post on this thread, you will notice that not once have I bashed Christianity. All I did was point out some flaws in regards to Hitler, which infolurker had brought up.

I then made a point to say.... Personally, I do not care to "debunk" or "bash" on Christianity, I would just like for Christians to stop pushing their beliefs in my face. Keep your beliefs, enjoy them, I hope your beliefs bring you peace, love, joy and all that.

I just wish that Christians would allow others that same respect. But I sure won't hold my breath.

Peace



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by amazed
 


u really hit the nail on the head with this one.
this is the point i was trying to make earlier .
but couldnt seem to keep the person on topic...

sigh.. i'll keep tryin though



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 02:14 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 02:21 AM
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OK.

The topic of this thread is

What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

Not "Lets take pot shots at each other".

So how about you guys stick to the topic, and start being civil with each other?



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