What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

Originally posted by TruthParadox

Originally posted by John Matrix
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Which makes the judgement of Hell even less justified.
Not that it ever could be justified.
My initial reason for questioning the faith.
Once you question, your eyes become open.

For his statement to be true, it would be more like this:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions by hypocrites.

Meaning, they have good intentions but look at everyone else as the problem and don't realize their own evil they are doing.

Like if you kill a man because that man killed someone, then it appears you are doing something good, and have good intentions. However, when you look at what the action itself is, then you can see that you have just given the world 2 murders rather than just 1. Thus, the hypocrite.

To overcome this, you simply need to look at both sides of things. When you put yourself in the other perspective, then you will be able to see your own evil and hypocrisy. Jesus explains this in Matthew 7.

www.biblegateway.com...

Originally posted by scorand
reply to post by Boogley

 

look at the topic of the thread..
it has been postulated that there is a lot of christian bashing and u stated the the bible said this would happen and i inquired if u think that the why is because the bible said so..i think that it has to do with the things they do in the name of dogma posing as the word of god

Oh ok, let me make myself a little more clear then. YES I do believe that Christian bashing, that multiple "debunking" threads (Don't know how you can debunk a religion but OK!) that the atrocities that are to come (as this isn't even halfway in full swing yet) were predicted and used to be preached to us from the Bible. There are other prophecies that are coming true as we speak, and have been. I don't know how to explain it... I'll say it this way and I hope you get what I mean... "Popular" Christianity (I'll call it that) is what we've been having. The half-religious peoples portraying themselves to be pastors and popes and God fearing presidents, they are what I would call the false prophets, these are the leaders of "Popular" Christianity. Yes, I believe it is happening because it was predicted. It does have to do with these people. So I agree with you to a certain degree. In the time of Gods return these people will be doing their VERY best to try to make Christ, God and anything like that to seem like nothing. To be just a nothing thing that we were stuck on. It's their job on earth. Does that make more sense?

reply to post by undo


i understand that this is your position, how ever my point is that this position is based on church dogma and is against the constitution.. and that in this day and age has no bearing on this day and age as now its better understood and that the truth of the matter is still surpressed by the church and that the church has indeed used this dogma to affect the outcome of prop 8.. which should never have come up for vote as its a equality and persuit of happiness issue..

reply to post by scorand


you asked my opinion on what it says in the texts. that's my opinion of the texts. but how it applies to government is an entirely different situation. the government makes the laws. in the US we vote. i thought there were safeguards put in place after the whole slavery thing that a court could rule the decision invalid if it was unconstitutional in the first place. ya know popular vote is a fickle thing. one of the downsides of not safeguarding that area is the ability to rule entire groups of people inconsequential. not a good idea. one minute, jesus was a great guy. the next, he was traded in for a criminal. some things, people are not fickle about at all, and marriage appears to be one of those things.

Maybe I (we) are torn between freedom and causing pain to someone else to get it. It is an awful spot to be in. If there is a third choice, I'm listening.

reply to post by Boogley


Popular" Christianity (I'll call it that) is what we've been having. The half-religious peoples portraying themselves to be pastors and popes and God fearing presidents, they are what I would call the false prophets, these are the leaders of "Popular" Christianity.


these are the same people and idealology that have been moveing the church since before christianity, jesus states this is the case i think christianity is slowly learning and letting jesus influance our lives.. and leading us to enlightenment.. not this crap that the church perpetuated over the last 2000 years.. the reediting and mistranslations and all the other crap that the church and church leaders have used to enslave the poeples minds and hearts .. like they like to harp the truth will out

reply to post by badmedia

Please, just because I didn't take this thread completely off-topic to discuss oil and such doesn't mean I have demonstrated any lack of knowledge about oil. I'm not sure if you have been keeping up with recent discoveries in the solar system, but oil obviously does not come from dinosuars or biology.

First you said there was plenty of oil, now you're claiming that oil on a distant moon is some far off locale of the solar system is a viable alternative to our peak oil problems on this planet? You honestly believe this is the answer? This was the fruit of your investigation and research?

Oh my, you are delusional. Hey, how about the free energy being distributed on Arcturus? What about harnessing the power of the black hole at the center of our galaxy?

And you wonder why I think you're illogical and irrational?

Perhaps your invisible friend can zap those hydrocarbons to Earth!

I prefer the more reasonable approach which is to immediately end this religious push to create more people, to stop blocking attempts at birth control and to allow for abortion.

Yes, you've displayed a stunning lack of knowledge on the subject. But please, let me know when you figure out the planet uses over 100 million barrels of oil every day and with our current technology, it would take about 16 years to go to Titan and back. Then there is that pesky problem of extracting and storing the hydrocarbons. Brilliant solution your deep scholarly research has led you to. . . .



[edit on 8-2-2009 by VelmaLu]

Originally posted by badmedia
For his statement to be true, it would be more like this:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions by hypocrites.

Meaning, they have good intentions but look at everyone else as the problem and don't realize their own evil they are doing.

So what about if a person doesn't believe there is enough reason or evidence to believe in God - no more than Zeus (for example)?
Is that hypocritical or evil?
Is it worthy of Hell?

The only hypocricy I see there is in a God who claims to be loving and yet tortures his creation even while knowing perfectly well that there really isn't any concrete evidence for any religious belief.

Originally posted by badmedia
To overcome this, you simply need to look at both sides of things. When you put yourself in the other perspective, then you will be able to see your own evil and hypocrisy.

Hypocricy, maybe. But evil?
Evil is just an opinion.
My opinion is that a person should not cause harm to another person.
That's the code I live by, and in that respect, I commit no evil.
We all have our faults, but "evil" is merely a measuring stick we use to size ourselves up against others and to set a standard.
What's considered "evil" in one person's eyes may not be "evil" in another's.

reply to post by undo


some things, people are not fickle about at all, and marriage appears to be one of those things.

actually that is changing.. thats why the mormons drummed up so much money and pushed this in ads and other things.. but to tell the truth the text that claims gays are an abomination is and is proven to be false.. not to mention that the book of paul not to mention paul himself was with the church and not jesus.. thus the church has manipulated the masses and is starting to lose its grasp on the general public.. the bible also tells of this happening.. as in the fall of the church.. this is why the church is failing.. jesus said that the signs of his truth are all around us and the church is doin its best since the beginging. to keep itself on top and in control.. this is evedent, and again my point was that the marriage issue was and is based in church dogma.. not reality

Originally posted by Boogley

(Don't know how you can debunk a religion but OK!)

Hey there Boogley ...

I am going to answer that question of yours.

By showing that the evidence presented for proof of event is based on little to no clear empirical evidence and then applying Occum's Razor

Just like you debunk a claim of a UFO sighting

You religion says that an omnipotent being, that looks like a human male and resides in the most perfect place imaginable, made everything in the universe in 6 days and will send you to the most horrible place imaginable if you do not worship only him and his word and that the "proof" of the existence of this being can only be found in a book that was written, translated, re-written and re-translated by humans over 2000 years ago.

Christianity/religion asks us to believe the most extraordinary claim without offering any extraordinary evidence and then, just to add insult to injury, tells us, if we don't accept this extraordinary claim, that we will be punished.

If this is not a prime case for a serious debunking then I don't know what is ...

reply to post by TruthParadox


There's actually a much larger problem. If God knows the future, then God knows how you will choose. If God creates all souls, God knows the ultimate destination of each one before God creates it.

Therefore, God creates some souls which are purposely flawed for the express purpose of having them suffer all eternity.

Originally posted by VelmaLu
There's actually a much larger problem. If God knows the future, then God knows how you will choose. If God creates all souls, God knows the ultimate destination of each one before God creates it.

Therefore, God creates some souls which are purposely flawed for the express purpose of having them suffer all eternity.

Yes, I know.
I've argued this many times on this forum, but no one seems to get it.
An omnipotent/omniscient being is responsible for everything because he knew the result before he created the cause.

But if you say this to a Christian, you are likely to get a "God doesn't force you to be evil" or "God sent his son to earth and gave you a chance"...

Which is, of course, ignoring the main point which makes 99% of the Bible (tests, tribulations, judgement) pointless and redundant.

reply to post by VelmaLu


Yeah, God's a douchebag that way. You'll find that the inevitable response will be something about free will and all that jazz, but free will cannot exist when it comes from an omniscient, omnipotent omnipresent being.

The faithful like to have their cake and eat it too.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Hellish-D]

That's because when talking about religion, the introduction of logic causes big problems. It's like they don't use that portion of their brain, and if you ask such questions, you're being "critical" or my favorite, "persecuting" them.

God already knows the choices we will make, so we cannot change the path we're on. In order for Jesus to have been born to Mary, God had to have known how she would choose long before she was even born.

Therefore, we're merely living out a drama and rehearsed roles that God has written and determined. Evil, sins, wrong thoughts, murder -- all of it, is the result of God.

Further, God must have wanted abortion. If God did not want abortion, God would not have created the ability to abort babies. Assuming God is all-powerful, God could have prevented babies from being aborted. Therefore, it is God's will that some babies be aborted.

Don't even get me started on the obvious flaws in the Genesis myth. . .

Originally posted by VelmaLu
Don't even get me started on the obvious flaws in the Genesis myth. . .

You are a child of the Universe. That which is the Universe and created it, created you.

Peace

reply to post by Horza


I guess you could debunk it if you viewed it as that way. In the case that you do then good luck. You may find all of your "evidence" and you may not. Does it bother you so much that someone finds happiness in it? If it's so unfathomable to understand why someone could believe in a God, then why do so many people spend SO MUCH of their time trying to disprove it? Why not spend your time doing what you believe to be productive in the world. But you see this as productive right? So it all ties down beliefs. You believe tectonic plates move against each other eventually resulting in a volcano right? I believe God moves the plates and the result is a volcano, essentially making the volcano erupt. How can you disprove that?

reply to post by VelmaLu


Epicurus sums it up nicely (my signature).
Christianity has been debunked for hundreds of years - many people just don't want it to be debunked...
The only defense against this argument is that God isn't really omnipotent or omniscient, and that the Bible was just being vague.
That seems to be the defense for many portions of the Bible (6 day creation, earth being described as flat, and numerous other flaws).

My logic: even if a god DOES exists, he would not punish us for not believing in something which is vague and could be taken in many different ways. He would surely know the importance of our actions rather than unverified beliefs.

reply to post by Boogley


I believe the issue lies not in seeing others 'happy' in their faith. It's that people are happy in ignorance and denial.

reply to post by TruthParadox


All that created was Good, but not everything done with good was good.

One man crafts iron for a sword, the other for a plow. One provides for his community while another steals with a sword from another. One way seeks to help the whole while the other creates discord.

Surely the creator can remove his creation. Is it possible that the creator desires that the creation understands that which is beneficial and that which is not?

Somehow our punishment becomes the result of our actions, upon our brother and our community.

An arrogant man, not realizing the delicate balance of his survival says their is no God, and that which is God cannot be heard by the deaf or seen by the blind.

Wish you for the ability to do that which is right for all, or terminate humanity for the evil that men do at a single blow? Perhaps that which is merciful and forgiving to mankind knows that in the end, a way is found.

It is in the finding of that way which Jesus Christ presents us with a path lesser taken.

Christianity debunked hundreds of years ago? To the ignorant perhaps. To the planet, and over one Billion believers, not even close.

Peace


[edit on 8-2-2009 by HIFIGUY]