What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

reply to post by Boogley


look at the topic of the thread..
it has been postulated that there is a lot of christian bashing and u stated the the bible said this would happen and i inquired if u think that the why is because the bible said so..i think that it has to do with the things they do in the name of dogma posing as the word of god

reply to post by badmedia


Whattttt????

You will have to repeat that a little more clearly I'm afraid..

Once the blood started leaking from my eyes, just prior to my head exploding, I had trouble reading it..



I have no idea what you just said...

Semper

Originally posted by Ron Paul Girl
...so remember that the next time you feel drawn into an arguement with someone spewing lies about Christianity.

When you use the term 'spewing lies about christianity' ,are you refering to people who 'dare' to question it and do not just mindlessly accept it to be true?

Also,its a bit ironic using Thomas Jefferson quote in your sig as he was more of the opinion that:

“I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.”
Thomas Jefferson-the third President of the United States.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by badmedia

 

Whattttt????

You will have to repeat that a little more clearly I'm afraid..

Once the blood started leaking from my eyes, just prior to my head exploding, I had trouble reading it..

I have no idea what you just said...

Semper

Oh it's not that hard. Paul is the false prophet warned about. The 2nd shepherd Jesus talked about that would come after. Pauls writings make up 50% of the New Testament and is the foundation of the New Religion in the name of Christ.

Everything you see prophesied is filled by Paul and the church. New Shepherd comes(Paul takes it to the Gentiles and becomes the shepherd for the Gentiles), starts a new religion through Political power(Romans) and then this religion proceeds to kill all those who disagree with it. Won't be finished or happy until it is the 1 world religion.

You can tell me what "scholars" define things as all you want, but you are just trusting the word of man in doing so.

Can you justify your actions in the words of Jesus? Was Jesus lieing when he said those who live by the sword die by the sword? Was he lieing when he said not to fear those who only have power over the body? etc.

So you follow Paul and the broad path of death and destruction. You believe you are justified, but the truth of the matter is it's just 2 sins, not 1. For vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord.

If you believed Jesus, then you would follow and do what he says, rather than following and doing what Paul says. Realize it or not, your actions are hypocritical and because you do not follow Jesus they can be seen and pointed out by others. That is what leads to threads that are attacking Christianity. They do not attack Jesus or the things Jesus taught, they attack what they see people do in his name. And because of it, they do not see the truth in what Jesus says.

reply to post by Hellish-D


actually, it reinforces the meaning of not forcing it on people. brush the dust off, that kinda thing. like not forcing your viewpoint on people.

Some attack, criticise, ridicule, and hate what and who they don't understand.

Some misrepresent the Gospel and bring ridicule on the rest of Christendom.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

reply to post by undo


It implies that those who disbelieve and question your belief are below you and not worth your time. 'swine' isn't a term used for an equal.

Originally posted by Hellish-D
reply to post by undo

 

It implies that those who disbelieve and question your belief are below you and not worth your time. 'swine' isn't a term used for an equal.

Undo was correct, it's about not forcing things onto other people. It is pointless to try and force it onto someone who is dead set on their beliefs and won't even entertain opposing ideas.

The 2nd part of your quote is - least they turn and rend you.

It would be like if I went to a hardcore extremist Muslim(or Christian for that matter to be fair), and tried to tell them something, they would get angry at me and just kill me. This is useless.

I do not think the phrase applies to these forums as if the person has come to the discussion they are atleast somewhat open to responses, and they can't turn and rend you either. I take no heed in what I say on these forums as such, only those with ears will hear to begin with.

like the mormons did with prop 8 in cali.. but their not the only ones christian groups all over are pushing their belief into law..

and before i get flamed for that statement please use you'r head and see that this is being used as an expample and not a thread derail

reply to post by scorand


And a good example at that. Don't fear the flame, embrace it.

reply to post by Hellish-D


you are so right.. thx

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by VelmaLu
Do you know the difference between opinion and behavior?

I sure do. And there is nothing you can say that offends me. If I don't like what you are doing, then I will walk away.

So I do not care if you are offended, that is your own problem not mine.

If I become offended by your opinions, then that is my problem. Get it?

Actually, I don't think you truly grasp the difference between opinion and behavior. Once again, I wasn't speaking about people being offended by opinions, but by BEHAVIORS. You may get offended by people's opinions, but I do not. I suggest you get some help for that.

Let me spell it out for you. S L O W L Y. You can have an opinion of a magical sky friend and keep it to yourself, or you can ram it other people's faces. Having the belief in some invisible friend doesn't bother me, but forcing that belief on others is a problem.

It would be no different than you asserting you believe in Santa Claus. I don't really care if you do or don't, but when you attempt to make everyone else acknowledge that this is perfectly legitimate belief, when you attempt to change the law to reflect the existence of Santa Claus, when you pretend to speak for Santa Claus, it's a problem.

Let's go over it again. Opinions are not behavior. I cannot be offended by your opinions unless you express those opinions through some behavior.

If you've grasped that concept, we can continue on with this part of the discussion. If you haven't, I can go over it again. I'm sure you'll demonstrate whether you have learned this important difference or not.

No, I'm going to blame religion on fostering this idea that birth control is bad, that abortion is a sin, that every sexual act should end up in another human being.

You might be "pretty sure", but you're wrong. You have no idea about the concept of peak oil as so aptly demonstrated by your comments. Sort of like your opinions on overpopulation.

Instead of just believing something, and then vigorously defending it, why don't you actually research it (through unbiased sources, not some religious based website) and then develop an informed opinion?

And just like everyone else, you make assumptions about me. You assume I am a Christian because I speak up. You assume I don't research my thoughts. You assume I just accepted everything. You assume there is no logic to my thoughts. But let me go ahead and clue you in. I do not believe, I know. I do not have faith. I do not accept things because a man or bible said it.

You have no idea just how informed my opinion is. None at all.

Actually, I do because you told me so. When you make comments that we aren't running out of oil, you've demonstrated that you haven't researched the topic and you're clueless about it. Your continued assertion that you do research is illogical, and probably a complete fabrication.

If you had, you would know that oil is a finite resource as long as we are confined to this environment (planet), and sooner or later it will run out. So the question becomes one of consumption and demand versus overall supply.

It is a fact that Christians many times speak out inappropriately about their religion. Please show me where I have made a statement of fact which was incorrect.

I'm not even Christian, I actually follow Jesus. Go ahead and look at my profile. You will find the most devout Christians have me as a foe. But apparently in your little dualistic perspective there is no room for such, it's all black and white, and is the same low level of thinking of those you point fingers at.

I don't really care about your profile. I challenged you to show me were I made a statement of fact which was incorrect. It has zero to do with the prima dona notion that you believe people don't like you. Stick to the topic.

Let's go over this again.

You seem to think that empirical evidence is the same thing as opinion. It's not. You treat your feelings and beliefs as if they are as valid as scientific research. When I drop a rock and it falls to the earth because of gravity, that is a fact. It has been proven, it is repeatable. I can demonstrate it for you. A magical sky friend who needs our prayers and petitions is a belief. You cannot prove to me that this being exists, that this being needs our prayers, and that this being really gives a damn about us.

Fact and belief are not the same.

Do you understand now? No one is saying you can't have your imaginary friend, it's when you expect us to accommodate this belief where it gets to be a problem.

I get that you believe anything which isn't in your perspective is by default not possible or imaginary. Again, you don't even know me. You have no idea what my beliefs or actions are. You ridiculed me this entire post. You degraded me your entire post. Right down to calling anything I believe imaginary. No matter if you realize it or not, you are trying to "shape the world to match your deluded thinking".

Why are you so upset? Didn't you say, "And there is nothing you can say that offends me"? It seems to me you're pretty darn offended.

Now, what is the response for this? Oh yeah, I found it:

"I do not care if you are offended, that is your own problem not mine."

reply to post by scorand


i lived around Mormons for 10 years and learned what they believed about these kinds of subjects (i'm not mormon, btw). the reason they were so adamant about prop 8 is they are seriously (and i do mean seriously) focused on marriage. they believe once you get married, you can end up being married to that person for eternity, and that once you are on the other side, you will have the opportunity to make new children (spiritual children), who will go down to whatever planet they are assigned to and inhabit physical bodies. this is not possible between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, even in the spirit form, according to their belief system. it has to be a god and goddess, not a god and a god or a goddess and a goddess.

anyway, that's the reason they will not support gay marriage. they believe it's an eternal thing and that would be a horrible mistake in their estimation.

reply to post by undo


then they should know that marriage has been around a long time before christianity. and weather they want to believe it or not it still goes against the US constitution.. they are forcing their beliefs on the rest and they conned a buch of others to do their dirty work..and despite what is claimed same sex marriage was more accepted than what they like to claim

[edit on 8-2-2009 by scorand]

reply to post by scorand


just so you realize, that is not the reason that mainstream christianity doesn't want it to happen. so there's more than one reason people don't want it, some of which bares no resemblance to biblical christianity. it wasn't just a "christian" response, in the current definition of "christian" beliefs on the subject of life, death, babies, marriage and so on. they are part of the american community, which is made of people from many different beliefs, who will all have their own approach to such topics. heck, it can even vary within the same belief system. so i don't think you can pin it on any particular group - it wasn't just mormons, it wasn't just protestants, it wasn't just catholics, it wasn't just "christians" of any variety. there's sure to be muslims, jews and orthodox beliefs that don't want it either, and people who simply don't like the idea of homosexuality in the first place. it isn't as black and white as you might think

Originally posted by VelmaLu
Actually, I don't think you truly grasp the difference between opinion and behavior. Once again, I wasn't speaking about people being offended by opinions, but by BEHAVIORS. You may get offended by people's opinions, but I do not. I suggest you get some help for that.

Let me spell it out for you. S L O W L Y. You can have an opinion of a magical sky friend and keep it to yourself, or you can ram it other people's faces. Having the belief in some invisible friend doesn't bother me, but forcing that belief on others is a problem.

But I don't believe in a magical sky friend. God is within. You simply have no clue what I believe. You are making assumptions.

You said the behavior you had a problem with was someone talking about their religion, or using their religion in their reasoning. And you view that as them forcing their beliefs on you. Your behavior is no different than those you point fingers at.

It would be no different than you asserting you believe in Santa Claus. I don't really care if you do or don't, but when you attempt to make everyone else acknowledge that this is perfectly legitimate belief, when you attempt to change the law to reflect the existence of Santa Claus, when you pretend to speak for Santa Claus, it's a problem.

But you are doing the same thing is the point. Trying to force the belief or disbelief of Santa Claus is the same action. But once again you have grouped me up into the range of mainstream Christians.

The basis of your argument is not based on if you are right, or if your actions are different. It is based on the premise that they must be wrong because they believe in something that isn't real, so you by default are right. Because of this, you must group me and others into the mainstream version and point out it's flaws.

Let's go over it again. Opinions are not behavior. I cannot be offended by your opinions unless you express those opinions through some behavior.

But your behavior is not different. In the actions you are just like the Christians, just the other side of the coin.

If you've grasped that concept, we can continue on with this part of the discussion. If you haven't, I can go over it again. I'm sure you'll demonstrate whether you have learned this important difference or not.

And maybe you can grasp the concept that by trying to force their opinion out you are exactly the same as they are.

No, I'm going to blame religion on fostering this idea that birth control is bad, that abortion is a sin, that every sexual act should end up in another human being.

You might be "pretty sure", but you're wrong. You have no idea about the concept of peak oil as so aptly demonstrated by your comments. Sort of like your opinions on overpopulation.

Please, just because I didn't take this thread completely off-topic to discuss oil and such doesn't mean I have demonstrated any lack of knowledge about oil. I'm not sure if you have been keeping up with recent discoveries in the solar system, but oil obviously does not come from dinosuars or biology.

Titan's Surface Organics Surpass Oil Reserves on Earth
www.nasa.gov...

Saturn's orange moon Titan has hundreds of times more liquid hydrocarbons than all the known oil and natural gas reserves on Earth, according to new data from NASA's Cassini spacecraft. The hydrocarbons rain from the sky, collecting in vast deposits that form lakes and dunes.

Actually, I do because you told me so. When you make comments that we aren't running out of oil, you've demonstrated that you haven't researched the topic and you're clueless about it. Your continued assertion that you do research is illogical, and probably a complete fabrication.

If you had, you would know that oil is a finite resource as long as we are confined to this environment (planet), and sooner or later it will run out. So the question becomes one of consumption and demand versus overall supply.

But you don't have the first clue as to what I've researched, what I've experienced or what I know. You made all these assumptions based only because we have disagreements, not because you actually have any real clue. As I just showed you, I actually do know a little bit about the topic, if you would like to have a discussion about oil then make one. Excuse me for not publishing a research paper about oil in the middle of the thread.

I don't really care about your profile. I challenged you to show me were I made a statement of fact which was incorrect. It has zero to do with the prima dona notion that you believe people don't like you. Stick to the topic.

And now you tell me to stick to the topic? Come on. All I was doing is pointing out that I am not what you claim I am, I do not have these delusions you assume I have and so on. All you have done is made assumptions about me, when you do not have the first clue. PERIOD.

Let's go over this again.

You seem to think that empirical evidence is the same thing as opinion. It's not. You treat your feelings and beliefs as if they are as valid as scientific research. When I drop a rock and it falls to the earth because of gravity, that is a fact. It has been proven, it is repeatable. I can demonstrate it for you. A magical sky friend who needs our prayers and petitions is a belief. You cannot prove to me that this being exists, that this being needs our prayers, and that this being really gives a damn about us.

Are you so full of it that you don't even realize the insults you are trying to throw at me? Magical sky friend again. You treat me with so much disrespect and then ask me to respect you. You're actions are again no better than the people you point fingers at. I have no problem with science, and I am programmer who makes a living off understanding and creating logic. But as I said before, you do not argue from a point of view of being right, you argue that you are right because you assume everyone else is wrong.

You know what science can do? Science is great for action and reaction. It is great for logic. In all your hoopla about science, you forget the most important element. The actual scientist who observes and understands it.

Fact and belief are not the same.

And because something has not made it upon your extremely small perspective of even the known universe doesn't make it false either. It just means you do not know. But you state what you do not know is fact. It is again no different than someone who just believes in god without actually knowing.

Do you understand now? No one is saying you can't have your imaginary friend, it's when you expect us to accommodate this belief where it gets to be a problem.

Do you understand that when you call it imaginary how disrespectful you are to someone? Is this your example of how your "behavior" is better?

Why are you so upset? Didn't you say, "And there is nothing you can say that offends me"? It seems to me you're pretty darn offended.

Now, what is the response for this? Oh yeah, I found it:

"I do not care if you are offended, that is your own problem not mine."

I am not upset or offended. I just don't think you have the first clue what you are talking about, and have accepted what you think you know based on the same exact principles of Christianity, which is to accept authority as truth.

I don't see you as being any different than Christians. You are exactly like them. You might not have the same exact beliefs, but you get your beliefs from the same level of thinking.

reply to post by undo


really.. the disscent about it is solely based on religous dogma...
then the others who dont want it are just stupid?? the mormon group went way outta their way to make sure their moronic message was spread.. to as many people as possible the millions spent to do this would have made any pollitician proud..





[edit on 8-2-2009 by scorand]

[edit on 8-2-2009 by scorand]

reply to post by badmedia


Badmedia you to rely on an opinion that your extra dementional "soul" interacts with your brain to create consiousness as you know it. Many people do not believe in this "soul".

I think the most importanat question is whether or not you include evolution into your understanding of the "soul". If you do indeed understand and accept evolution then that would mean that "souls" form through natural processes in this reality throughout the universe.

Seeing as how organic material just rains form the skies.... that make sthe universe look much more disturbing in terms of life on other planets.

badmedia,

i think you'll find that the idea that "christians" are this or that or the other thing, is standard operating procedure for some people (and anyone who even remotely resembles the description gets carted along for the ride because human nature, being what it is, doesn't tend to differentiate, like the assumption that the mormon reasoning for prop 8 being the same as the mainstream christian reasons, which of course, it was not!). you have to dehumanize your targets first in order to be inhumane to them.

reply to post by scorand


some non-religoius people don't like it either. they don't want to encourage it in any form. they find it unnatural and disturbing. you just don't hear from them. they simply vote against it when the opportunity arises. there's many many reasons and not all of them are related to religion. i'm sure some of these other people don't appreciate being tossed in with the religious. you know people do have minds of their own.