What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

reply to post by Hellish-D
Thanks for your comment. That was just one of many I could have used.
I usually try to find and read many different sources before I post.

Not that I haven't been too hasty before, lol.

reply to post by americandingbat


Your post is an excellent example of how one should conduct a debate about such a contentious issue. Intelligent and well thought out discourse, without all the vitriol and pepper sauce. Star for you.

I consider myself a Christian, BTW.

reply to post by Hellish-D


HELLISH-D and TRUTHPARADOX and OTHERS:
Not here to debate. I have been reading many of the posts on this thread and one thing is very clear, nobody is going to sway the other side. I am going to say what I have personally witnessed. My best friends mother fell down a flight of stairs and shattered her elbow, the XRays shown her bones were so fragmented it was as if a person took a hammer to her elbow. The doctor said that she would never use her arm again. She is a professional painter. One night Jesus cames into her living room and healed her arm. She went back to the doctors and had another XRay. It revealed not one single break. Perfectly healed. The doctors response was that the first XRay must have been flawed. She has been painting ever since. Another friend of mine injured his arm falling onto pavement playing basketball. He had a protrusion in his forearm like a bone ready to break right through the skin. His father laid hands on him and prayed be healed in Jesus name. That protrusion disappeared right before our eyes. My friend latter had XRays taken on his arm. The XRay revealed that there was break and that it was perfectly healed. My friend never had any previous arm injuries. There are many other healings done by Jesus I personally know.
I will never be convinced Jesus isn't real and alive today. Period.
When Jesus walked the face of the earth and healed he had mockers who even witnessed the healings He done. So I dont expect anyone to believe these experiences that I witnessed, especially since you dont know me.
I personally have had two back surgeries. I have been in pain every day for the last eight years. Why hasnt God healed me? I dont know. I believe in the healing power and love of Jesus and I will not be swayed. My healing will come.
If God made the universe, I believe He did. How can we fathom the depths of His thoughts? We cant.
I was born and raised Catholic. I quit once I read the Bible. I have read it many times since. Im not into Religion and neither was Jesus. Im into Relationship with the creator of the universe and Jesus and the Holy Spirit who resides within me.

Again, I am not here to debate. Just to put my two cents in.

reply to post by Annee

Don't you see the irony, re-read your post. What you believe is not any more believable than what I believe.

Except, the bible has a lot of prophecy that has been exactly correct.
I haven't seen any proof of an alien abduction yet.

If that happened the way you claim it did, it would be documented by the medical community and studied extensively.

Do you have a link?

Originally posted by sezsue
reply to post by Annee

Don't you see the irony, re-read your post. What you believe is not any more believable than what I believe.

Except, the bible has a lot of prophecy that has been exactly correct.
I haven't seen any proof of an alien abduction yet.

 

Not the point. The point is how majorly outnumbered I am in my belief. I've been ganged up on and verbally abused more times then I can count. Can't tell you how many times I've also been labeled an Atheist simply because I'm not Christian.

I don't argue the bible has fact and prophecy. The difference is in interpretation.

Here is another way of interpreting scripture: beingoflight.brotherofyeshua.com...

reply to post by MatrixProphet




You bring up some pertinent points...

My statement is really two-pronged.

(1) There is not a shred of legitimate proof the Jesus ever intended his teachings to be religionized. Humanity did that.

(2) Any religion, I don't care which one, that has been manipulated by the hand of men is going to have short comings.

reply to post by Wertdagf


In a sense you are correct. While I certainly do not condone atrocious acts, there is a method to the madness. We, as I have said for quite some time, will not see the full picture until all is revealed, and in time, it will be.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

(1) There is not a shred of legitimate proof the Jesus ever intended his teachings to be religionized. Humanity did that.

(2) Any religion, I don't care which one, that has been manipulated by the hand of men is going to have short comings.

We couldn't agree more! I place all religions in the same hand basket. Christianity just so happens to be the focus of this thread, but I see problems with all of them.

Eventually, regardless of beliefs, the religion, leaders, or prophet becomes the guru or God, in most cases. I live in New Age land and see the same problems with them as I do with many Christians. They are out to promote their lifestyle and eastern beliefs and assume that everyone they talk to will feel the same. I see hypocrisy and entitlement with all religion. AND what does God have to do with any of it?

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
live in New Age land and see the same problems with them as I do with many Christians.

Yeah,I do too... I am sort of "New agey" as well. My main problem with most "new age" ideas is that they all claim to be correct, but that cannot be true when many of them have such dissimilarities.

I am certainly not anti-Christian. Actually,I love them. I think their principles are correct. However, I think that their dogmas have been severely manipulated and that there is little similarity between the Christianity of the last 100 years, and the original Christians of the first century.

I will say this, Christianity has made an attempt to become more politically correct. Perhaps, their error has been in an effort to "fit in." I don't know.

reply to post by HIFIGUY


I find it funny how you say "peace" at the end of every post. You can live in the dillusion that you are "Teaching" you've openly said that anyone with a different idea is wrong because and I quote, "they haven't seen what you have". So where in have you been "teaching" and not preaching like you clearly are. Double-Standard-Hypocrit how bout this is the way I describe Christians from now on. You also gave no answer of praising jesus like he is a god when there are supposed to be no false gods before the top one right? Also did Jesus tell you why he wasn't Christian but descided to be Jewish?

[edit on 10-2-2009 by TNT13]

Originally posted by scorand
reply to post by MatrixProphet

 

i agree..
saddly there are many who are afraid to question biblical docturine

This may be part of the problem.
A large portion of Christianity requires acceptance of the Bible "as is".
When a person proclaims that they are a Christian, it is a "given" that they are accepting the Bible as the word of God, even though there are many questionable aspects of it.
That's where the word "Faith" comes into play.
We can study the Bible. We can look at it from different angles, and look for the hidden truths within. Try to understand the reasons for Inconsistencies.
Decipher the contents.
But, the point is, that although the Bible has been passed through the hands of so many men, and has questionable activity involved in the handling of it through the ages, we have faith in "The Message", and faith in how God will work with us through the message. Regardless how seemingly flawed or suspect the delivery system has been.
We aren't idiots! We see these flaws. We live with the doubt. But, that is where we practice the use of our faith.
So, in our eyes, when a person delves into our beliefs, and attempts to cast doubt and negativity on it, we see it as nothing other than an attack.
And, make no mistake. When a person attempts to create doubt in another person's beliefs, and then push it into their faces, (as is being done on this site), it is comparable to the acts of a religious person pushing their beliefs into the faces of non-believers.
Any forceful intrusion into the belief or views of a person, is going to cause great discomfort and fear, and will be met with defensive, aggressive reactions. Regardless of who is on what side of the fence.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
I live in New Age land and see the same problems with them as I do with many Christians. They are out to promote their lifestyle and eastern beliefs and assume that everyone they talk to will feel the same. I see hypocrisy and entitlement with all religion. AND what does God have to do with any of it?

Yes - but - in New Age Spirituality - you are of God - you are your own God - responsible for your own thoughts and actions. There is no Oops! . . . then a go to guy to get forgiven. You are personally fully responsible to forgive yourself by changing/correcting your own thoughts and actions. In "One" - we are all connected like ripples in a pond - the pond being the whole universe. Every ripple you make affects the pond. You are personally responsible for how you affect the whole.

Having been raised Christian I feel I have the right to be objective and debunk a cult mindset. Many (not all) Christians have no qualms referring to other beliefs as cults. They don't seem to have any qualms about attacking Islam - - with no knowledge of that belief.

reply to post by TNT13

Originally posted by TNT13
I find it funny how you say "peace" at the end of every post. You can live in the dillusion that you are "Teaching" you've openly said that anyone with a different idea is wrong because and I quote, "they haven't seen what you have". So where in have you been "teaching" and not preaching like you clearly are. Double-Standard-Hypocrit how bout this is the way I describe Christians from now on. You also gave no answer of praising jesus like he is a god when there are supposed to be no false gods before the top one right? Also did Jesus tell you why he wasn't Christian but descided to be Jewish?
[edit on 10-2-2009 by TNT13]

I find nothing funny or humorous about saying Peace. Nor did I ever say I was a teacher or preacher. I merely responded to your statement of preaching and clarified what teaching and preaching meany. If you learned something, then you were taught, therefore I was a teacher. If you already knew, then I was merely speaking on the basis of clarity.

Peace and harmony is a vision of conclusion. A standard of outcome, of which I hope that I will live to see.

But there is only once prince of Peace that can do this. And he is the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

Jesus came as a Jew, and informed the Jews, that they did not even believe their own scripture regarding his coming and even more, wouldnt believe him at his own word. He was an apostate of of the Jewish faith. A child of, but an inclusive new direction and correction.

Jesus told them that he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.

You havent seen what I have, any more then I have seen what you have. I merely indicated, that my revelation and experience was beyond anything that as a man, I ever expected in my lifetime.

I am neither the judge, or the jury. I merely respond as to that which is applicable to what is being addressed.

I struggle, as I am a man, just as any other person. I make no claim to being perfect, nor do I claim to know all.

But I do know this. That when Jesus said, that when you obey his commandments, that you honor the Father. Through Jesus Christ It is my hope that I may know the Father, and all else that may be revealed to me is neither of my decision or doing.

When Jesus said, that he will reveal himself to those that seek, he has proven to me that his words are true.

TNT. You cannot claim hypocrit as you dont know me, nor do you know my actions as a man. The same holds true for any other person who seeks to follow Christ. Therefore, your delusion of hypocrisy resides within your own mind, and to that you are entitled.

My relationship with God is my own, and revelation, be it through the Father, the Son, or the Holy Ghost is unto each that recieves.

Teacher, Preacher or Seeker, my desire and sincerity is known unto myself and to my God. No man can judge or know the heart or mind of another man except the One God.

Peace


[edit on 10-2-2009 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

Yeah,I do too... I am sort of "New agey" as well. My main problem with most "new age" ideas is that they all claim to be correct, but that cannot be true when many of them have such dissimilarities.

There is an element of truth in most beliefs. Living in an area where one is either Catholic or New Age (predominately) I get to see the affects of these groups. There are different types of New Age beliefs. A lot of it trendy.

Shamanism, Shirley McClain (who lives here), Course of Miracles and all the different eastern conglomerations with western influence, along with Louis Vuitton doo rags!

I'm sorry! I see so much hypocrisy with it all. A lot of inconsistencies, romantic dogma, sexual overtones under the guise of spiritual enlightenment, and rituals. High colonic's using hopefully - decaf! Sweat lodges where you get to smell someone's arm pits smoking peyote and weed, schrooms, balanced with some granola, twigs and berries!! With a Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker on their Suburu. Some of them think that Richard Nixon is still president!!

I'm on a roll!!

I am certainly not anti-Christian. Actually,I love them. I think their principles are correct. However, I think that their dogmas have been severely manipulated and that there is little similarity between the Christianity of the last 100 years, and the original Christians of the first century.

Yes, except the first century Christians had many pagan teachings incorporated into their new faith. Such as Hellenistic and Roman add-ons that inter mingled with Gnosticism.

The basic teaching of Satan - an evil ruler of the world came from the Gnostics and was included later in Christianity.

I will say this, Christianity has made an attempt to become more politically correct. Perhaps, their error has been in an effort to "fit in." I don't know.

Yes! Lukewarm.

reply to post by Annee

Yes - but - in New Age Spirituality - you are of God - you are your own God - responsible for your own thoughts and actions. There is no Oops! . . . then a go to guy to get forgiven. You are personally fully responsible to forgive yourself by changing/correcting your own thoughts and actions. In "One" - we are all connected like ripples in a pond - the pond being the whole universe. Every ripple you make affects the pond. You are personally responsible for how you affect the whole.

A little too codependent for me! This is the problem with religion (New Age being one): they all teach codependency. No, we don't mirror each other, but they teach that we do.

Heaven forbid we are all Gods. We are doomed!
No-one has given me an intelligent explanation as to what that even means!

Yes, I agree that we are all responsible for our own actions. Unless we are chronic late stage victims.

The only hope we have IMO is in a God outside ourselves. He is our last hope.

As sick, dysfunctional, and addicted as we are as a society of people, all trying to climb up and over each other - scrambling to get to the top, it is a romantic thought that we are all united. Most cannot take any responsibility for any decision for fear it would be wrong and they would be judged. This is why most go with trends. We being Gods, is one.

I work in human behavior and hear it all, and I see where it sounds good, but doesn't work! This philosophy places a heavy weight on the individuals and sets them up to fail, for the dark side to it (among many) is to be perfect. It is not a spiritual freedom but one of bondage. I see it all the time.



[edit on 10-2-2009 by MatrixProphet]

What is with all the Christina Debunking attempts?

My thoughts:

People want to be the David up against Goliath=Christianity(or organized religion if you prefer) They hope to be that one "voice of reason" that sways the "weak-minded" towards the "light" (whatever their particular version of the light is)

People want to debunk Christianity so they can breathe a sigh of relief thinking that all that Revelations doom and gloom prophecies stuff is just a joke. Then they can get back to Rhianna getting smacked around.

People want to get out from underneath the percieved oppressiveness of religious doctrine so they can do what they want without feeling guilty. To achieve this you have to render the rules irrelevant by discrediting the rulemakers.

And of course the most obvious explanation: they just want to fight and disturb people, and religion is a big red button they can jam on.

Myself, I'm an Atheist, and I'm not above a spirited debate on the holes in religion. But I'm not trying to convince anyone, I have my own beliefs and I'm just fine on keeping them to myself unless you politely inquire as to the nature of them. You can have your beliefs as well, as long as you politely keep them to yourselves if you are unable to have an intelligent and civilized conversation about them. A sense of humor helps as well.

That's what people around here need, a big heaping helping of CIVILITY.
If someone disagrees with you politely state your case. If they persist in using their argument like a sledgehammer as opposed to a scalpel, excuse yourself and back away. We are supposed to be here for learning and debate, collaboration and dissemination. Bickering and slandering and ham fisted self righteousness defeats our collective purpose and advances our evolution and understanding by a whopping ZERO.

Tolerance
Understanding
Empathy
Patience
LOVE

Muslims and Christians, Jews and Atheists, Agnostics and Bhuddists, Wiccans and Scientologists, WHATEVER, our enemy is the greedy corrupt elite, NOT EACH OTHER.

These masterminds are watching us battle from a hill upon high, after we have slaughtered each other they will come down and loot our corpses, and make slaves of whoever remains.

Wake up people.

reply to post by LeoPardus70

Hi Leo.

Thanks for agreeing with me. It seems to me a lot of people on this site are like that boring person you meet at a party who witters on and on and on...

Why don't they just make their point without these boring passages, quotes etc.

Oh, just while I'm here - may not be the right forum - but I actually turned to Jesus IN SPITE OF MY BRAINWASHING!!! I was brought up in the Anglican faith and dragged to church, Sunday school and Bible class - hated all of it (also we knew that the bible class teacher was a pervert who liked little girls... need I say more?)

I rejected all churches, because they are man-made and corrupt, but I chose Jesus.

OK, wait for the crap now.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

OK - well I'm not getting how that is co-dependent.

But - NO - I don't really believe in a mystical god. I believe in intelligent conscious energy. If there is a Creator - - then it is when energy evolved into consciousness intelligence and the consciousness began to create worlds. I actually don't believe anything really exists but energy - that everything we see is a creation of thought.

"Gods" to me would be the Captains of the crafts and/or the original leaders of the ETs setting up camp in the Fertile Crescent.

HOWEVER - - I was trying to simplify using god because this is a discussion of Christianity-Debunking. I needed to stay in the realm of understanding.



[edit on 11-2-2009 by Annee]

reply to post by YeshuaWarrior

One night Jesus cames into her living room and healed her arm. She went back to the doctors and had another XRay. It revealed not one single break. Perfectly healed. The doctors response was that the first XRay must have been flawed.

Surely then the possibility that the xray was flawed is a far simpler solution than a supernatural being coming in the middle of the night?

Your reason for quoting this tale has either to been to prove something to others or to yourself. But it is not evidence of anything other than some people would choose to believe the extraordinary before the mundane.

Again, it would seem as though xtians will quite easily mistake a shadow for a burglar but not a burglar for a shadow. You may choose to believe what you wish which is your right, but given the fact that, with all the millions of opportunities that have presented themselves. Your jesusgod has not but once regenerated an amputated limb, any reasonable person can only conclude that -

1 The jesusgod chooses not to regenerate an amputated limb.
2 He is unable to regenerate an amputated limb
3 Jesus is imaginary

No doubt you will opt for number 1, and claim that jesusgod chooses not to regenerate an amputated limb or has done but chooses that no one is to know about it.

You will no doubt go to extraordinary lengths and make excuses to yourself or others, as to why jesusgod chooses not to regenerate an amputated limb.
Finally having completely failing to rationalize why jesusgod would choose not to regenerate an amputated limb, you will put it out of your mind as it's easier not to think about it.

Putting it out of your mind, is a far easier thing to do than consider option 2 or 3, as this would require you to think critically about why you believe the things you do.
Thinking critically would require you to seek solid testable evidence, given that you cannot provide solid testable evidence, then you will rationalize it's a matter of faith.
And as we know faith is a belief in something without any evidence, which could also be classified as a delusion.