Another lie in christianity exposed?, page 1

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Topic started on 30-1-2009 @ 04:02 PM by pureevil81

The following is from Isaiah 53, This prophecy is usually attributed to Jesus.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Right here, verse 9, the NT says Jesus ascended, yet this supposed prophecy of Jesus says he was assigned a grave with the wicked.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

Verse 10, he will see his offspring? Jesus supposedly had no offspring? right?

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

verse 12 blows the whole " Jesus is god " argument right out of the water, It says god will GIVE him a portion from among the great!! Give it to him, not equal to, or that Jesus is god.

Most people I know believe Jesus to be their Saviour, When I ask why they usually say " because there are prophecies of him long before he came ". It is usually an answer similar to that.

So here we have a presumed prophecy of Jesus, but considering this prophecy does not fit Jesus, will you deny this or re-think your stance?

Here is a nice little article I found, home.att.net...

Is this tied to a " conspiracy in religion ".... I think so.

Your thoughts?

[edit on 30-1-2009 by pureevil81]

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 04:12 PM by C-JEAN

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 04:22 PM by Choronzon

Not belonging to the christian faith or any religion for that matter, can see problems with all walks of life without anyone pointing it out to me.

That being said, why is it important to crash someone else's philosophy party, why not worry about you believe to be true...it would be much more rewarding.

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 04:24 PM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by pureevil81

He(God) was talking about his seed(Jesus) not Jesus' seed. Good try though. If you'll just read to learn you'll find no--no not one contradiction in the Book of Books.

Peace

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 05:00 PM by hexagram23

reply to post by pureevil81

Greetings pureevil81 (when I first read that I thought it said puree evil

)

Opinions do vary of course, within the context of people's individual belief systems, and I am not trying to be iconoclastic here, (and of course people are entitled to believe whatever they want), but on this subject I thought I would share some interesting material from Rabbi Tovia Singer (who is also a radio host on Israel National Radio). He does a lot of lectures/speaking engagements at various places, and there is a collection of different lectures he's given here:

www.simpletoremember.com...

They are free downloads in mp3 format, and if you're interesting in this topic, let me recommend the following which can be found on that page:

How do Missionaries Paint Jesus into the Jewish Scriptures?

and there is a two part series on the Suffering Servant in Isaiah 53

I've downloaded and listened to all of these different lectures, and I think you pretty much can't go wrong with any of them (the one on the Trinity is especially good, and the one of Satan was rather eye-opening). Rabbi Singer is absolutely fluent in all versions of the Christian Bible, and of course the Jewish Scriptures, and his knowledge is astounding. Anyhow, I thought you might find that of interest, I'm sure my mentioning this will piss-off our christian friends here despite that not being my intention. For serious scholars with an open mind this will prove enlightening.

Peace
hex23

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 05:02 PM by tgreen2103

reply to post by pureevil81

Your link doesnt work. Your theory is interested, but I would like to read the article.

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 05:08 PM by hexagram23

reply to post by tgreen2103

Hmm, seems to work fine for me, well I'll type it out long hand for you:

www.simpletoremember.com/audio/anti-missionary-mp3s.htm

Hope that helps, there's also a description of the individual lectures with them to give you and over-view.

Peace
hex23

Edit to add: I assumed the message above this one was in reference to my link, but that wasn't the case, sorry for inadvertently being so self-centered

[edit on 30-1-2009 by hexagram23]

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 05:13 PM by Elder1952

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Excellent point of fact!!! I myself didn't catch this as-well until a deeper review.
C.T.R., Elder1952

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 05:29 PM by spy66

I have found something no one can explain to me yet.

On the first two pages of the Bible, The Old Testament.

Moses actually describes creation in two different orders. In the first one you have the 6 days God created everything then he rests on the 7th. Then Moses goes on to describe it in more details. In this description Moses parts from his first description. And Moses brings in the Garden of Eden and the tree of knowledge. Not mentioned in the first part.

But notice how Moses describes creation in the second part. It is not in order with the first 6 day description at all.

Remember!! God rested on the 7th day. All was Good. But it was not all good was it.

Why wasn't the Garden of Eden mention in the first part!

Why wasn't the tree of knowledge mentioned in the first part!

Quiite important creations if you ask me.

The tree of knowledge is far from a good tree. How could God say all was good and take a rest!

There is a lot of inaccurate descriptions made by Moses on just the two first pages. Or contradictions.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 05:52 PM by spy66

I found another. In my Bible On the 5th day. God creates man in his image. In his image he creates man and woman.

When i went to wiki en.wikipedia.org... . Man is created on the 6th day.

And after all the animals big and small. That dosent fit the story with the Garden of Eden at all. And the last thing God created is Eve. It dosent add up to the 6 day creation story.

In Moses second description Adam is made before everything just about. Before the Garden of Eden to.

Now i believe in God but this part i just cant get.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 05:53 PM by Boogley

reply to post by pureevil81

1, he dies for 3 days and was buried in a cave. After 3 days he ascended to heaven. (During the 3 days he was in hell) And as someone else said God was talking to his seed not Jesus' seed. Why is Christianity under so much attack? Would I get banned if I started making stupid posts about Muslims or any other religion for that matter? I wish the mods would have something to say here. This dude clearly pulled random versus and tried to turn their meanings around to get a rise out of people. Glad this is condoned.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by Boogley]

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 06:00 PM by Boogley

Originally posted by spy66
I found another. In my Bible On the 5th day. God creates man in his image. In his image he creates man and woman.

When i went to wiki en.wikipedia.org... . Man is created on the 6th day.

And after all the animals big and small. That dosent fit the story with the Garden of Eden at all. And the last thing God created is Eve. It dosent add up to the 6 day creation story.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Read again. That verse doesn't come until the 6th day. Gen. 1:23 = the end of the 5th day. That verse isn't until Gen. 1:26. Have a good day, try to read better I guess..

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 06:02 PM by Boogley

reply to post by spy66

You just said yourself that at first it was a general overview of the first days and then he goes back and goes into more detail. That's more than likely where the more descriptive stuff is going to be...

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 06:03 PM by spy66

reply to post by Boogley

Not in my Bible. On the 6th day observed his creation and said it was all good. And then it gose on to the 7th day when God takes a rest.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 06:05 PM by Boogley

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Boogley

Not in my Bible. On the 6th day observed his creation and said it was all good. And then it gose on to the 7th day when God takes a rest.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

What version do you have?.....
2nd line

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 06:07 PM by spy66

reply to post by Boogley

Isn't it normal that a detailed description dont differ from another description. I mean in the order things are created. It dose make a difference specially in this case.

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 06:08 PM by Boogley

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Boogley

Isn't it normal that a detailed description dont differ from another description. I mean in the order things are created. It dose make a difference specially in this case.

We can get to the bottom of this. What version of the Bible do you read from?
Gonna add some stuff. Yeah that would be a huge plunder on the writers parts but first I need to know what version you read so I can cross reference if that makes sense.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by Boogley]

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 06:23 PM by spy66

reply to post by Boogley

Her it is. It's in Norwegian so i must translate.

From the morning the 5th day.

God said: The Earth shall let all kind living creatures go forth.Cattle.bugs and whiled animals. Each by its own kind. And it was so.
God created every kind of animal and all cattle and insects every thing on the ground of every kind. God looked at it and saw that it was all good.
Then God say: Let us create man in our image. In our image he created Man and Woman. It shall role over the fish in the sea.The birds under the sky. Over the cattle and all the Wilde animals and all creep that crawls on the ground. And so on and so on.
And it was morning the 6th day.

This is actually what my bible say. "Now" i didn't mention every thing the point is to show that God created man on the 5th day. And that he created all the living creatures before Man.

In Moses second description. Adam is created right after a rift opens from the earth. And brings forth water to water the plants. That's when God makes Adam out of clay. Then he created the garden somewhere in the east. And places Adam there. Then he created the animals big and small for Adam to give names.

This is not what is described in the 6 day story at all. Eve is the last thing God creates. But that dosent fit the 6 day story either.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 06:27 PM by spy66

reply to post by Boogley

I think i use the same bible as you do!!! It has the new and old testament.

But it is translated into Norwegian. Since i live in Norway.

It just says Bible and there is a cross on it. The old Testament has about 1075 pages.It ends with Malaki 3-4

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply posted on 30-1-2009 @ 06:33 PM by Clearskies

Originally posted by pureevil81
The following is from Isaiah 53, This prophecy is usually attributed to Jesus.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Right here, verse 9, the NT says Jesus ascended, yet this supposed prophecy of Jesus says he was assigned a grave with the wicked.

Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:

Mat 27:58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.

Mat 27:59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,

Mat 27:60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

Verse 10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

he will see his offspring? Jesus supposedly had no offspring? right?

It's not 'fleshly' offspring, but through Him we have a new relationship with G-d as sons and daughters.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

verse 12 blows the whole " Jesus is god " argument right out of the water, It says god will GIVE him a portion from among the great!! Give it to him, not equal to, or that Jesus is god.