Another lie in christianity exposed?

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posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


Well that very well may not be true. There are different versions of Bibles out there. Mine is King James Version or KJV for short. Here's what mine says.. (This is the beginning of the 5th day to the 6th.)

Gen 1:20 - "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the creeping creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."
1:21 "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
1:22 "And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."
1:23 "And the evening and the morning were the fifth day."
1:24 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so."
1:25 "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and everything that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
1:27 " So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."


So as you can see my version checks out...try checking on the spine of your Bible. It should say 'Holy Bible' and then under it the version should be listed.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by Boogley]




posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Boogley
 


Yes it dose. And that's what my bible say to "On morning the 5th day". But it's not in this order on wiki.org It is mentioned on the 6th day. It is mentioned on a different day.

Now read which order Moses describes the second part of the creation. When is Adam created! Before or after the living creatures!

And just to add one thing. How did Moses know what was North.South.East and West. When he describes The garden of Eden being created somewhere in the East!

Don'T get me wrong i believe in God. I just think this part is inaccurate described in the bible.

It makes me wonder why the tree of knowledge is not mentioned in the first story since it is a different tree then all the others. Its a own creation.
And it has very important abilities why is it not mentioned before the secont story. And this tree is not good.

God told us that everything he had created was good. The tree of knowledge is not good.

OPS and i forgot to mention the serpent. That creature was not like any other creature god had created. It was not good.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


Maybe, he correlated it to where the sun rises?
But, about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, it wasn't the only special tree.
The Tree of Life was the one that Adam and Eve DIDN'T eat from!
Just like we have a choice everyday whether to follow Jeshua(Jesus) or satan.
It was the tree of Jeshua, Immortality and Life.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by Choronzon
Not belonging to the christian faith or any religion for that matter, can see problems with all walks of life without anyone pointing it out to me.

That being said, why is it important to crash someone else's philosophy party, why not worry about you believe to be true...it would be much more rewarding.


I think that it is important not to crash their party, but blind faith has and is responsible for MANY senseless killings across this world. Not to mention, it is allows the responsibility to help out our fellow humans to escape the lies, oppression, manipulations, false judgement, misguided emotions, etc etc.

I think the route that a lot of churches are going to these days has reached a VERY critical stage... and not a good one. Pastors are literally physically abusing their congregation, they are putting them into trances and then laughing at them, and they are getting rich by guilting people.

So, how do you set them free? The truth of course.

The NT god is not supported as god or the messiah in the Tanakh. The G.d of the Tanakh is so misinterpretated thanks to christians and their blind faith is not even based on it.

The Tanakh is allegorically based on real events. Even Jewish people understand the allegorical nature which is why you do not see them pushing their views onto others except when they hear their Scriptures being used to heap false condemnation on others heads (save the messianic Jews who are part of the Zionist movement.. coupled together w/ mostly evangelical christians to push for war and oppress the people not only in this country but other countries as well).

so... to some of us who care, this is part of the reasoning.


The least Christians could admit they are serving a different god and that it is the one that condemns others to hell unless you buy into a human sacrifice... some have and I completely respect and appreciate the honesty to seperate their REAL violent look at their scriptures.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by spy66
 


Maybe, he correlated it to where the sun rises?
But, about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, it wasn't the only special tree.
The Tree of Life was the one that Adam and Eve DIDN'T eat from!
Just like we have a choice everyday whether to follow Jeshua(Jesus) or satan.
It was the tree of Jeshua, Immortality and Life.


I know but why didn't moses describe such special creations in the first part. These two tree are unique.
Why isn't the garden of Eden mentioned when God created man and woman! The garden of Eden is unique.

And why change the order of how things are created!

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Boogley
 



It makes me wonder why the tree of knowledge is not mentioned in the first story since it is a different tree then all the others. Its a own creation.
And it has very important abilities why is it not mentioned before the secont story. And this tree is not good.


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]


surely 'story' is the key word here, the bible is just that............a fictional story!!!!!

good/bad/indifferent has nothing to do with christianity nor religion it's just about morality/personality/people

been there, seen it, done it



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by abstrusenumber1

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Boogley
 



It makes me wonder why the tree of knowledge is not mentioned in the first story since it is a different tree then all the others. Its a own creation.
And it has very important abilities why is it not mentioned before the secont story. And this tree is not good.


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]


surely 'story' is the key word here, the bible is just that............a fictional story!!!!!

good/bad/indifferent has nothing to do with christianity nor religion it's just about morality/personality/people

been there, seen it, done it


No it's just that this is a bit odd. One of the telling's bear more authority then the other that's all.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.


Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.


Gen 2:11 The name of the first [is] Pison: that [is] it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where [there is] gold;


Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land [is] good: there [is] bdellium and the onyx stone.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by pureevil81
 


He(God) was talking about his seed(Jesus) not Jesus' seed. Good try though. If you'll just read to learn you'll find no--no not one contradiction in the Book of Books.

Peace


Hmmm... sounds like you are selling some blind faith there brotha!

It is not talking about Jesus. If one would ACTUALLY just read it, they would see this clearly.

Isaiah 49, which is leading into this prophecy NAMES the servant and not matter how you try to explain it.. Israel does NOT = Jesus! (can prove this as well for those who need it).

The servant is clearly declared... Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. Israel also was declared the Son of G.d in Hosea 11:1, Exodus 4:22,23, and Ezekiel 16.

Not Jesus... as I have stated, am stating, and will state again until people start using common sense and quit turning away from the truth because they are that in love with their security blanket... you can keep the security blanket... just quit trying to patch it up with the Tanakh which clearly is contradictory to the NT god.



[edit on 30-1-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by abstrusenumber1

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Boogley
 



It makes me wonder why the tree of knowledge is not mentioned in the first story since it is a different tree then all the others. Its a own creation.
And it has very important abilities why is it not mentioned before the secont story. And this tree is not good.


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]


surely 'story' is the key word here, the bible is just that............a fictional story!!!!!

good/bad/indifferent has nothing to do with christianity nor religion it's just about morality/personality/people

been there, seen it, done it


No it's just that this is a bit odd. One of the telling's bear more authority then the other that's all.


I'm not sure what to mean?

Im don't see any more 'authority' in one post to another.

Surely interpretation of any text is in the gift of the reader and it's not for anyone else to decide/decode what the writer meant at the time of writing?

imo we all have to find our own way, without prejudice

I found mine



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by spy66
 


Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.


Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.


Gen 2:11 The name of the first [is] Pison: that [is] it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where [there is] gold;


Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land [is] good: there [is] bdellium and the onyx stone.


Yes thats what it tells us. But it is out of order compared to the first 6 day creation story told by Moses in the beginning.

In the second telling God creates a good and bad tree. But God didn't created anything but Good things in the first story. The 6 day creation.

And the order he created Man and other living creatures is out of order. In the second story compared to the 6 day creation.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by abstrusenumber1
 


Believing in God is just as much a feeling as it is knowledge.

And there is probably a smart brain who will set this thing straight soon. One that can see something that i dont




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


It is an allegory... all of this is very much given for this time.. right now. Israel's bloodline which included a remnant of Judah's bloodline because it was banked on Judah's being a special bloodline (from the line of David) in hopes that the children spread across the nations would be able to wake up to the Word when G.d put His Laws on their heart.

When you read the Tanakh, it becomes more understandable when you quit looking at the stories as fact and look beyond the words to the Word that is there.

Has opened up a whole new doorway for not only those who are being called out, but some Jewish are starting to understand as well. (do not mistake the Jewish with the Zionist though please.. they hellenistic and are responsible for bringing out the blind faith belief system otherwise known as Christianity).

Edited to add for further clarification:

The only covenant made with mankind was that to Noah when G.d promised to never destroy all of mankind from off the face of the earth again.

Thus the covenants with Israel.... and ONE of the purposes for spreading the bloodline into the nations of the world.. to wake people up and say... SEARCH AND KNOW what you are subscribing to!!! Knowledge is the key!

Oh... and it is all throughout the Tanakh that this is what happened... One being the verse RIGHT before Isaiah 53.

Isaiah 52: 13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.





[edit on 30-1-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by spy66
 


It is an allegory... all of this is very much given for this time.. right now. Israel's bloodline which included a remnant of Judah's bloodline because it was banked on Judah's being a special bloodline (from the line of David) in hopes that the children spread across the nation would be able to wake up to the Word when G.d put His Laws on their heart.

When you read the Tanakh, it becomes more understandable when you quit looking at the stories as fact and look beyond the words to the Word that is there.

Has opened up a whole new doorway for not only those who are being called out, but some Jewish are starting to understand as well. (do not mistake the Jewish with the Zionist though please.. they hellenistic and are responsible for bringing out the blind faith belief system otherwise known as Christianity.O



Oh belive me i look far past the words. I just brought this up for people to look at. It is a eye opener


Just ask miriam lol. I think i am wearing her out with some of my questions.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


I clarified that post further! and good.. that is all we are trying to do.. get people to KNOW rather than blindly accepting.. the latter is why we are in this mess we are in now.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by spy66
 


I clarified that post further! and good.. that is all we are trying to do.. get people to KNOW rather than blindly accepting.. the latter is why we are in this mess we are in now.


Yep!! thanks i am looking into it.

But can i ask why Moses made the stories so different from one another. Why would he make it so open for misunderstanding!

It is one of the reasons people argue the sin committed.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 07:44 PM
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my word, im out of my depth here BUT I have to say that I find it very entertaining( and very scary) that an ancient book of fiction creates so much debate and very scary that so many people seem to take it as a basis for life


scary, scary, scary



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by pureevil81
The following is from Isaiah 53, This prophecy is usually attributed to Jesus.


9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.


Right here, verse 9, the NT says Jesus ascended, yet this supposed prophecy of Jesus says he was assigned a grave with the wicked.


10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.


Verse 10, he will see his offspring? Jesus supposedly had no offspring? right?


12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.


verse 12 blows the whole " Jesus is god " argument right out of the water, It says god will GIVE him a portion from among the great!! Give it to him, not equal to, or that Jesus is god.

Most people I know believe Jesus to be their Saviour, When I ask why they usually say " because there are prophecies of him long before he came ". It is usually an answer similar to that.

So here we have a presumed prophecy of Jesus, but considering this prophecy does not fit Jesus, will you deny this or re-think your stance?

Here is a nice little article I found, home.att.net...

Is this tied to a " conspiracy in religion ".... I think so.

Your thoughts?


As a former christian who loves Jesus Christ (well maybe not former but it's lookin' that way), I'd like to say I welcome this kind of stuff.

First off, generally, I see a lot of people who give a meaning to a verse, then use that meaning to their own agenda. Both sides are guilty. Let's remember that how we see things is not necessarily how things are...pride is dangerous.

i've yet to try/use the quote/system so i'll just refer to the points in order;

Assigneda grave with the wicked could very easily and logically referring to being killed alongside wicked people. Of course, we all know the bible states that happened (he was crucified alongside two other criminals, who were given death for whatever they did...i don't see a stretch calling them wicked.)
That's why i see no contradiction there.

You second point i think is moot as far as calling some sort of contradiction because if indeed God didn't give the promised messiah these things then how could he possibly have gotten them. Also, since Jesus (and maybe John too) gave birth to Jesus, it seems that his disciples could easily be called children. The religion of christianity itself could easily fit that metaphor or parable or whatever as well. Prolonging his days could easily equal eternal life, or could be a direct reference to his coming back from the dead (prolonging is causing to continue something that should have stopped had you not interevened right?).

As to the "give him a portion" thing, when a father is happy with his son, he gives him gifts. The man and his son represent one line, one family. Of course, a father is not seen as being "one" with his son like Jesus is with God, but it is the same idea. "whoever sees me sees the father", and I can attest to the fact that if Jesus didn't give all glory to God me and him would have a li'l prollem. The fact is, humans might not make sense of this simply because we are unable to understand how the relationship between spiritual relatives works. Actually, this is probable to me, as the alternative is as vain as saying we're the only intelligent beings in the universe. Of course, if you don't believe in the spiritual realm or other dimensions this wont convince you at all.

Well the rest of your post is kind of self-congratulatory, deserved i think when one thinks critically, so all i will say to it is remember that your interpretations aren't necessarily the right ones, so treat them like they could be wrong. I live by this myself.

thoughts?



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by abstrusenumber1
my word, im out of my depth here BUT I have to say that I find it very entertaining( and very scary) that an ancient book of fiction creates so much debate and very scary that so many people seem to take it as a basis for life


scary, scary, scary


Yes i have to agree with you if 50% of the bible is a metaphor where you have to imagine what it say or mean. Or that you have to see past the words to grasp it. It becomes fiction it becomes a imagination in your head.

But i do believe in God. And i only understand the Bible in my own way. Because God is a inspiration given to us. And you have to feel this inspiration to understand.
I call it the knowledge of love. Only love will give you the right feeling to work with, to grasp who God is. With just knowledge you have to have proof that God exists. Because you cant feel him.
And i believe that this is what separate believers from non believers. It's that believers can feel something for God.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 


Good thread, starred and flagged!! It is good to question everything as justamomma and I dogmatically preach!

You already know that I view the Bible as a mystery novel. Your thread supports my thinking. I have found that to understand God is to understand a little about how he works.

If we view the Bible as a mystery we will find all kinds of loopholes and clues.

It is now understood that Jesus almost HAD to have had children! He would not have had even 1 hearing ear without having been married with children. It went against Jewish law to speak in a synagogue or anywhere for that matter as a teacher without the above. This was obviously left out of the Bible. Thinking and searching minds want to know why!


verse 12 blows the whole " Jesus is god " argument right out of the water, It says god will GIVE him a portion from among the great!! Give it to him, not equal to, or that Jesus is god


This is a good argument against the trinity as trinity is not mentioned even once in the Bible. IMO there are countless scriptures that blow the trinity out of the water. Scholars have since found that Christianity added verses to the Bible in support of their dogma.


"There was one key passage of scripture that Erasmus's source manuscripts did not contain, however. This is the account of 1John 5:7-8 (the Johannine Comma), found in the manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate but not in the vast majority of Greek manuscripts, a passage that had long been a favorite among Christian theologians, since it is the only passage in the entire Bible that explicitly delineates the doctrine of the Trinity, that there are three persons in the godhead, but that the three all constitute just one God...But Erasmus did not find it in his Greek manuscripts, which instead simply read: "There are three that bear witness: the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and these three are one." Where did the "Father, the Word, and the Spirit" go? They were not in Erasmus's primary manuscript, or in any of the others that he consulted, and so, naturally, he left them out of his first edition of the Greek text."


His edition became eventually known as The King James Version. He had to write the above verse to represent: "The Father, the Word or Son, and the Holy Spirit" due to intense pressure by the Christian religious leaders of his day, even though it was not worded that way in the copies he worked from.

Biblical scholar: Johann J. Wettstein (1693-1754) had a problem also with the trinity. He found incredible faults in the manuscript copies of the text in 1 Timothy 3:16. This is another text in supposable support of the Trinity. Most manuscripts abbreviate sacred names where the Greek word God (OEOE) (I cannot replicate actual symbols here, first o has line or mark in middle, and last E looks different than first E) is abbreviated in two letters, theta and sigma (OE) (O with line), with a line drawn over the top to indicate that it is an abbreviation.


"What Wettstein noticed in examining Codex Alexandrinus was that the line over the top had been drawn in a different ink from the surrounding words, and so appeared to be from a "later" hand (i.e., written by a later scribe). Moreover, the horizontal line in the middle of the first letter, o (o with a mark in the middle or line), was not actually a part of the letter but was a line that had bled through from the other side of the old vellum. In other words, rather than being the abbreviation (theta-sigma) for "God" (oe) (o has a mark in center), the word was actually an omicron and a sigma (oe) (o without mark in center), a different word altogether, which simply means "who." The original reading of the manuscript thus did not speak of Christ as "God made manifest in the flesh" but of Christ "who was made manifest in the flesh." According to the ancient testimony of the Codex Alexandrinus, Christ is no longer explicitly called God in this passage."


There is of course more information to show that the trinity, and the scriptures indicating it, are not in the earliest copies of the NT. This is coming from scholars who have the privilege of actually having access to all the earliest copies available.

I don't wish to derail the thread by pounding on this further, but it is a very good clue to show that the Bible was greatly influenced by early Church fathers to represent doctrine they wanted incorporated into the Bible.

People refuse to accept that the Bible was not written, or founded, on original texts. This being the case, wise thinkers would reason; there is more story behind the first one, or two layers, of the Bible.


Is this tied to a " conspiracy in religion ".... I think so.


Indubitably!! And it is our commission by God to find these errors, and to denounce them! Many are doing so. It seems that now he is requiring it!





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