Another lie in christianity exposed?

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posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 11:17 PM
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Oh sorry it was Spy who mentioned the creation account ..There is more on there than just that subject and I still think you would find it interesting ....




posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 


OK, I will give it a read anyway, thanks.


I am curious as to your thoughts though, why do you believe jesus is the saviour? why do you believe he had to die for our sins?

Do you believe isaiah 53 was a prophecy about jesus? If so, why?

Take care.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by Simplynoone
 


OK, I will give it a read anyway, thanks.


I am curious as to your thoughts though, why do you believe jesus is the saviour? why do you believe he had to die for our sins?

Do you believe isaiah 53 was a prophecy about jesus? If so, why?

Take care.


I believe Jesus is the saviour because when I first wanted to know if he was real or not ...he really did do what scripture said he would do if you really believe in him....he first drew me to him by everytime I was in a mess I would call out to him and beg him to help me ..He really did send angels and miraculously help arrived out of nowhere (several times in several situations) ....I would also feel him comforting me and keeping my spirit strong in me (helping me to not give up as people were trying to take my life and wanted to kill my spirit within me)..I could feel him with me and he kept me from feeling any pain while getting beaten hard many times ....I went numb basically and I actually left my body and went to a beautiful place in Alaska where used to climb a tall tree and look at the snow covered mountains when I was young and I looked out and asked God ..who made all of this ..and I swear I heard a very quiet calm voice that said I DID >>(I When I was being beaten ......I wasnt a christian ......I sort of believed in God and I had heard about Jesus ...been baptized etc but did not understand what it was really all about or if it was really real or not ......the beatings did make me start reading the bible because I was so scared ..and did not know what to do ......I knew some about what the bible said and I did not think I was supposed to leave him ..so I began to ask God ...to help me ....I didnt know how he would but I begged him to ..
It took a few years ..but he protected me every beating (no broken bones and no serious things that I had to go to hospital for) ......my girlfriend(God bless her ) came about every weekened and moved me out ...I would just come back because I was scared (he had threatened me and my friends ) .
One day after serious serious prayer ...some one came to my door who I had not seen in two years ...after me asking for him to come and rescue me (that particular man was my babys father) ..he had dumped me when I was pregnant ...and I had not seen him since that day ..for two years ..
Without even saying hello to me ..he said get packed you are coming with me ...and he took me out of there ...(he did not stay in my life but he did rescue me from that man ) .........................that is only one thing the Lord did for me when I asked in prayer real serious about something serious ..

I dont want to bore you with my life story though ...sorry .But I have so much to tell about in my life where no one but GOD could have worked stuff out like it did ..several times ...miracles and prayers answered ...and a big change in me has been made since the day I truly believed he was who he said he was .....and that I could be forgiven and that I am still loved by the GOD and Jesus loved me enough to pick me up all of the times I have fallen since I have known him....and he has changed my whole life and how I view it (It is precious and I see life as a challenge now ..not just a rough road I dont think I can make ) ...I know at least I am not alone (In spirit ..he is truly with me) ...

So Jesus saved me in more ways than one .and he truly loves me and I feel it ..........he also forgave me which I did not believe God would do ..since I have done some bad things myself in my life ..he also taught me how to forgive myself ...and to love others (like really care about them ) .....he loves me and I know he does ...and he is real ...at least to me ...and no one can tell me otherwise ........


And I think Isaiah does describe Jesus along with many other verses in many other chapters ...I believe he was here with God from the beginning even and was hid (like the tree of life was) in scripture (not really hidden but in plain sight but missed by many )...



[edit on 30-1-2009 by Simplynoone]



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by Boogley
 



Good thing we have those Dead Sea Scrolls we can reference the OT with. (some of it anyway) I was giving him an example of a version and asking what his was as I wanted to cross reference if that's ok with you. I don't see any problems with my KJV Bible, and my Bible (after every verse) if there was a mistranslation it is italicized and its correct translation is out to the side so.. Not to mention I read and study the different versions as a whole and other texts from around that time, so I'm not glued to one version I just needed to know what his was that he was reading from! (I like to study...>_>) I don't think it's like a secret or anything, mistranslations were bound to happen if they are translating by hand ya know? But I don't only quote from KJV. It's just my preferred version as far as faith goes. Plus I grew up reading it and some of these new age Bibles I think are a little more influenced than mine may have been.. but that's for another day.


This is fine as long as you understand that they are also copies! Neither the Dead Sea nor Nag Hammadi discoveries are originals. All Bible manuscripts were many years and most often centuries after the fact. During the early Christians all information was transmitted - orally.

We have all most likely played the game where everyone sits in a circle. A leader of the group will tell a story and whisper it to the person next to them, that person then relays the story to the next person and so on. By the time it gets to the original storyteller the story has very little to do with the original version. This is the problem we have with the Bible. Plus add to this: the storytelling went on and on for many decades and thousands of mouths! Why would God allow such a haphazard way of communicating his words? Is there a method or purpose to this madness? I believe so.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 



So Jesus saved me in more ways than one .and he truly loves me and I feel it ..........he also forgave me which I did not believe God would do ..since I have done some bad things myself in my life ..he loves me and I know he does ...and he is real ...at least to me ...and no one can tell me otherwise ........


I personally couldn't agree more!!


This is how so many of us know for a fact that Jesus and His father live. But I think (I shouldn't be speaking for pureevil81) pureevil81 may have been speaking in a religious sense, at least that is how I took it.

I too, don't believe any longer that Jesus came to be a ransom for our sins. I used to believe that way. It is a religious thought that no longer works for me. But it does not mean to me that he doesn't help and rescue! Man needed hope and he provided that. It was not his fault that religion was the result.

The problem: how many worship the IDEA of Christ, but not him personally? How many rely on religion and not on him? How many speak in his name and yet don't walk their talk? He came to set us free! But how many went into bondage as a result?

You obviously do care and are sincere! It is obvious that you have great love for him. I just feel that the picture is much bigger and greater than the simple story of he being a saviour or redeemer. It has produced terrible results with control based systems.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 


Have you considered that Isaiah 53 could be about the John the Baptist? It fits really well if you know your scripture inside and out.

Just food for thought!



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


John the baptist?

No I have never looked at it like that, I will now though.

Food for thought is good.


Thanks.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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All bibels have been re written so many times and words have been changed so often, Adam in Latin means earth and Eve means human, If you studie back to the Egiption times there were many born on Dec 25th and reserected on the 3rd day. The first bible ever written the man was burned to the stake ! I beleave the bible has been writen to control the masses ! and all knowlage including God comes from within, We are beings of light, and the God image iis our soul, People in power have used Gods name to kill conqer recive wealth, When the true Spirit of God unconditional love,



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 01:50 AM
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The Bible is full of inconsistencies and statements that should shock and offend the modern reader.

Many modern Churches get around this by choosing to interpret these Bible passages in different ways, or by dismissing them all-together as representative of the morality and law of the people of the time and really having nothing to do with our modern lifestyle.

This of course flies in the face of the fact that one of Christianity's core principles is that the Bible is the word of God, the ultimate truth, blah blah blah.

Organized religion can kiss my heretical arse. I do, however, chose to remain undecided on the 'God' question. I'm holding out for a deathbed conversion, clinging to that last scrap of whatever it was that drew me to the church in my childhood.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Yes I know but it really doesn't sway me. I think that if it was just a random story.. like chicken little or something like that, we would all move on past it.. but God.. religion.. etc is something that people keep in the back of their minds always. It has such a strong influence on all of our lives. Either way!! I need to go to bed. Night y'all =)



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 04:19 AM
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Theres something I noticed in the bible to.

I forgot the what Book it was in and the chapter to but it pretty much said that all the chrisitans murders all the non-virgin woman (or virgin, one or the other).
Doesn't christian law say "thou shalt not kill" and yet they killed woman?
That why I think the christian religion is a bunch of B.S!!

Also people say that God was the first person to have lived on this planet. But if you think about it, Who made God? He can't just randomly pop out of the air, someone must have made him or is God just a myth?
Remember (im just saying, just targeting the idiots who think otherwise) that Jesus and "God" are two different people.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 05:23 AM
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Hello All

My first post here.

I have always thought all religious debates usually end up mute. Why?
Because all that is written is open to interpretation and or can easily be dismissed as the fodder of man. What is felt and what resonates with the soul is what matters.

What resonates with my soul is that religion was created to separate us from our own divine spark. TPTB will squelch any message that connects us with our higher selves.

So many "worship" the messenger and subjugate their souls without "living" the message which is LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

When we lived in a world where everyone radiates the light that is within to each other and not dwell in a place of constant division, strife and dogmatic upheaval, "heaven" will be realized.

I strongly believe and try to adhere to the message of Jesus and others like him but I worship no one.

Love
Jenkies



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by Jenkies
 


Your right. And my question just proved that. There are no other explanations or fact given but a opinion. Because if you are to take the writing as it is written. You will end up reading it as two totally different stories. You have to use your judgment to put it into a meaning. This means it becomes a opinion.

When i saw this. I started to see that this story seams like it is written by two different authors. I can see that the first story has a stronger authority. Because in the way it is written. It is written with authority.

The second one seams more like Moses version of creation. This version has less authority and leaves room for questioning and reasoning.

Because if you stick to the first story the 6day version and use that. It would raise questions when reading the second version.

You can clearly see that Moses puts creation in a totally different order compared to the first one.

So one of the stories must just be a opinion. And one is a true inspiration given by God. Which one is true.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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Matrix posted .{I too, don't believe any longer that Jesus came to be a ransom for our sins}

Well you can believe what you want Matrix...but scripture certainly disagrees with you.And you can toss scripture out the door all you want to that does not mean that it is not the truth ..(it just means you may not see it as your truth) .......they were there with him ..they walked with him ..he talked with them .....you were not ....they wrote down for us what happened to Jesus and why he was here and what he was here for .....and ever since I did open my heart up and believe it ....it really did change my life ..in more ways than one ..so I can honestly say that it is very real to me ...and very true ....


Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Isa 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Just remember that it was because of unbelief that their hearts were hardened and they could not see nor hear the truth .......

Hbr 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Hbr 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Hbr 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hbr 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


PS >.I know I cannot pay the price for my sins (I do suffer consequences from my sins which I learn from that ..)...but the wages of sin is death ....as a human I cannot conquer death ..But Jesus Christ did ...



[edit on 31-1-2009 by Simplynoone]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by pureevil81

Originally posted by heyo

Originally posted by pureevil81

Well the rest of your post is kind of self-congratulatory, deserved i think when one thinks critically, so all i will say to it is remember that your interpretations aren't necessarily the right ones, so treat them like they could be wrong. I live by this myself.

thoughts?


Thank you, You are right!!! I never believe I have the right " interpretation ". I do however question everything, so in doing that I realize I could be wrong.

Yes i think a great wedge between christians and non is that christians use scripture to prove their points when they are talking to someone who doesn't believe in scripture (of course this works both ways). I don't really feel it necessary unless i'm talking to a christian who's spreading disinfo. I mean, if God is the truth, then the truth can be reached at all costs, right? peace.

There have been some explanations so far that have been beaten right into the ground, I just chuckle as I read them, I have the rhetoric so many times it is ridiculous.

Thank you for the fair explanation, and doing it in a kind manner.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 


Hello - my first post here...

Others have done a great job of addressing your premise from a scriptural perspective - much better than I could do. I'd like to address this from a more general perspective.

First, so you know where I'm coming from, I have no use for organized religion. I was raised in a progressive church (Unity), which encouraged us to seek answers outside the Bible, mostly within ourselves. We were encouraged to question and challenge and test the Bible, much as the church founders had done.

I never bought the whole Jesus is God premise. If Jesus is God, then who did Jesus pray to? If Jesus is God, why did he speak of our Father in Heaven? Jesus did not claim to be God; Jesus always knew and stated that he was the son of God, and that we are all God's children. Nor can I fully embrace the concept that Jesus is our "savior" and that he died for our sins - at least not in the conventional sense.

Everyone has their own perspective. That's why there are more than 30,000 Christian denominations. While many do believe Jesus to be God, many do not. So to paint all Christians with the same broad brush creates a false premise. There are different denominations because different interpretations have been made - much like you have found your own interpretation. For example, I give little or no credence to any of the epistles of Paul; "my" Bible comprises only the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John), the Book of Acts, and the Revelation of John. Paul will always be Saul of Tarsus to me, the prosecutor at the trials of Jesus, and the usurper of the Christian faith.

At the time the Bible itself was put together at the Nicea Council, there were thousands of manuscripts about Jesus in existence, but only certain ones were included in the official Bible. Most were tossed aside because they did not fit the theological and/or political purposes of the church council. Tho inspired by God, The Bible was written and compiled by man, so of course there will be errors. Given human nature, we're lucky to have what we do.

Some believe the Old Testament is actually two or more versions of the same stories merged, which would explain both the inconsistencies and the redundancies. (One book about this is "The Hidden Book in the Bible," translated by Richard Elliott Friedman). These people were all over the map... Egypt, Palestine, India, Babylonia... So it makes sense that different traditions resulted from the same events, or why it seems that Judeo-Christianity borrows from other religions, or why the same God is worshipped differently in different cultures.

There has also been a willful, deliberate, and determined effort to rewrite much of the Bible in an effort to create and support a patriarchal religion, leaving out the feminine divine. Consequently, much wisdom and truth has been lost in our current Bibles. "Goddess" worship, for example; Hebrews honored and worshiped the Shekinah - God's female counterpart. But they didn't remove all references to Her in the Bible; note in Genesis that "God" created man in "our image." Not "my" image, but "our" image.

Given your searching nature, you might enjoy reading "Gospel Light," by George M. Lamsa, an expert in the Aramaic language spoken at the time of Jesus, which translates many Biblical passages in a new light. Another fascinating book is "When God was a Woman," by Merlin Stone, which explains how a matriarchal world became a patriarchal world. For other alternate histories, check out the books at ancientmanuscripts.com.

But in the end, no matter who and how much you read and research, I suspect (like me), that there will always be more questions than answers! Good luck and God bless on your journey.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Boogley
(I'm doing this bit by bit so bear with me here)


I understand.. I ask you to extend the same courtesy to me as well.



"The servant is clearly declared... Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. Israel also was declared the Son of G.d in Hosea 11:1"

Um, I'm confused as to where this ties into anything you quoted? Uh, yes, the children of Israel were Gods servants. I don't think anybody denies that but they are not his only begotten son. I'm trying to figure out your point of view as to why you brought this up at all. You are saying Jesus does not = Israel. That's correct but that doesn't mean that Jesus wasn't his son. That doesn't even make sense as far as arguments go. Edit to add - I think I see where you are coming from now looking back at this and the webpage from the OP.


Jesus was a prophet.. he spoke in parables that only a certain "ear" could hear.

I will explain it, but the understanding has to come from Him. It is so exciting to see when those who were meant to hear actually hear.


Jesus just like Moses was a prophet (whether either actually existed is not here nor there in any capacity; and thus the deceit).

I would have to say that since I last attempted to explain it, though I was getting it "correct" ... deeper understanding has been revealed to me.. so here goes.


Jesus = Prophet spoken of by Moses (also a great prophet)
Son of Man = The Word of the Lord birthed into the Vessel ..
Begotten Son = The Vessel for the Word


The beginning of I Samuel is a beautiful allegory of this exact thing... my favorite in fact.

Elkanah = G.d in the form of the Word

Peninnah = The former Israel.. under the Old covenant, the one who had children (not only Judaism, but also little brats christianity and Islam.. *teasing* I know some very lovely people in both of these religions and some bad seeds in Judaism.. *back on topic*)

Hannah = representative of the begotten Son and the process of "birthing the Son of man" aka the Word..

Note:

1. the LORD had shut up her womb

2. her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret

3. she wept, and did not eat.

4. she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the LORD, and wept sore.

5. she vowed a vow

6. she spake in her heart

7. (she was even accused of being of "satan".. I can relate so well) Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial

8. Then, Go in peace: and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition that thou hast asked of him

9. her countenance was no more sad

10. the LORD remembered her

11. she bare a son (The Son of man.. the Word of the LORD)

And her praise that sings forth from her heart:

My heart rejoiceth in the LORD, mine horn is exalted in the LORD: my mouth is enlarged over mine enemies; because I rejoice in thy salvation.

There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.

The bows of the mighty men are broken, and they that stumbled are girded with strength.

They that were full have hired out themselves for bread; and they that were hungry ceased: so that the barren hath born seven; and she that hath many children is waxed feeble.

The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.

He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

------ The above praise is NOT just words... that is the cry of a grateful and understanding heart.. those who know what I mean, when they read it, they will not have to TRY and understand that praise because it is word for word what their heart has already cried.. that is the heart of G.d's children displayed openly before the world.


I may not have approached this the way you had expected, but I went with the explanation that I had on my heart. Take it for what it is worth to you.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by TrixieBelden
 


Thank you for your intelligent post and open mind! It is obvious that you are not challenged by insight that shows there are problems with the Bible as it has been produced and passed down.


This is a spiritual journey and one that is exciting for those who don't walk in fear and ignorance, but truly want to learn an accurate truth as God intended.

Welcome to ATS and a mind that is not afraid to get out of the box!! A star for you!!



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
I would also feel him comforting me and keeping my spirit strong in me (helping me to not give up as people were trying to take my life and wanted to kill my spirit within me)..I could feel him with me and he kept me from feeling any pain while getting beaten hard many times


I do not doubt this at all simplysomeone... but I don't think it was Jesus. That was your Father.. you give the credit to a man and miss seeing that what was in Jesus is also in you and it was before you even asked. You didn't have to ask for Him to come to you because He was already there. You recognize the Word that Jesus spoke and so you credit Jesus for it when that is the Word speaking that came from your Father who is with you... your Comforter.. your ONLY Savior.



I swear I heard a very quiet calm voice that said I DID


Anyone who knows the Scriptures knows this is a mark of who you are.


I Kings 19:
11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:

12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

13 And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?

And do you know what the point of that is Simplysomeone? If you read it all, it very much speaks to those who G.d is already with... to those, He speaks in a still small voice.

The reason He asked Elijah, what doest thou here? is because He, G.d, was ALREADY with Elijah.. Elijah was already a part of G.d.

When you have something outside of you stand as your representative, G.d says the same thing.. What does thou here Simplysomeone? I am already here with you... I am the LIFE in you.

You seek forgiveness and it is yours. So, even if Jesus did "save" you, which I can understand what you mean by the explanation you gave... you don't need that image anymore.. Now, allow G.D to change you from the inside out... if you keep focusing on the man, you miss out on what G.d is calling you to do.. You are very precious to Him and you have no need to carry that weight anymore that you have been.

I know because I went through it too... and as long as I kept that image of a man (this is done by crediting Jesus with the work that the Father is responsible for) between you and your Father, you will not fully able to go through the rest of the work G.d has for you.

He wants you to let go of the security blanket and trust ONLY Him, because only HE can give true freedom to you. You will know when this has been accomplished because you no longer talk about what you were saved from, but you start doing the work you were called to which is to spread knowledge and instruct others on how to avoid those same kind of situations.. you speak PEACE to people.. not guilt, shame, promises of some distant heaven... you speak PEACE now!



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by TrixieBelden
 


I like the last part of what you said immensely... that is what keeps us searching.. but what I would like to add, when your eyes have opened, you will start to receive knowledge and answers to your questions. He is a G.d of knowledge, not ignorance. G.d does not want us left in the dark..

If one is in the dark, it is because they are choosing in their heart to stay there. The Light is clearly there, we just need to face it and when we do, Wisdom opens the eyes of the heart and knowledge is understood.





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