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Originally posted by TheRedneck
But yeah, that old insulation can get pretty nasty after a few years. What you didn't mention is that when it sags, it opens those holes in the upper half of the wall, where there are no outlets, and gets denser down where the outlets are. If there is a draft as he is suggesting, there can't be a lick of insulation inside the wall and he would be able to see through the holes.
I'm thinking some sort of heating system problem, since it apparently only started during the winter months. There can be some nasty stuff hiding inside those vents, and the contaminates would be spread to the entire apartment complex.
(accepts the smoke)
Originally posted by TheRedneck
Hey, I just thought of something... maybe the manager is sitting downstairs blowing his smoke into the air return so he doesn't get caught smoking in the lobby.
Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
Hitler was born in Austria
Swartzenegger was born in Austria
STOP ELECTING AUSTRIANS!!!
Originally posted by RFBurns
Not true. I live in an apartment complex. These buildings were built in the mid 1980's. I have a neighbor to my right, to my left, across the hall, and below me. None of them smoke. And none of them have complained about smelling my smoking or my wife's smoking. And these apartments are very well insulated. We live in Wyoming, where the wind blows regularly around 50mph and gusts up to 70+ mph. No one complains about smelling cig smoke eminating from the wall outlets.
And these apartments do not share air conditioner or heating vents. Each one has its own heat and air unit.
How do I prove smoke is coming into our office from an apartment downstairs?
Q. We have an office that was a residential home. Another nail/clinic hair salon connects to the other side. Both employees smoke outside in the front of the building. This office has been there for over 20 years. There is an apartment below and in the back. A recent new hire has taken off work complaining of cigarette smoking coming in from the bottom apartment. I do not smell the tobacco smoke, other than the two employees when they are outside. She insists that the tobacco she says is affecting the work environment is coming from the downstairs (basement) apartment. I do not know how she has come to that conclusion. She has been our employee for two months. Is there any detecting device that can measure/detect the amount of nicotine in the room? Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you
A. I am glad you contacted me rather than just writing off the employee's concerns. It is very common for someone with health problems exacerbated by tobacco smoke to notice it when others do not. Just as an example, I have asthma and my husband and I purchased a condo only to find out the renters below smoked inside. Neither my husband, nor his family members that visited, ever smelled the smoke, but it affected my breathing to the extreme - even sending me to the emergency room. We were forced to move and sell that home.
There are a very large number of organizations working on this problem all over the U.S. and at least five other countries. Within that group are a number of professionals trying to find a way to "prove" the problem exists. It only takes a minute amount of tobacco smoke to cause a health problem. The particles are very fine and embed in the lungs, getting into the blood stream. Because it only takes a tiny amount to do serious damage we are finding it difficult to actually "prove" it. Just the fact that so many are working on this is the only statement I can give you at this time that explains the problem is very serious and common.
We do know that tobacco smoke cannot be contained inside even separately enclosed areas of any building. If air or water can seep through the walls so can the smoke. The smoke can travel through baseboards, electrical outlets, even sheetrock. Here are two quotes relating to apartment buildings, which apply to any building, that may help:
"I believe there is an enormous amount of pent-up demand for SF multifamily dwellings. When I was at the EPA's Office of Air Policy Analysis, as long ago as 1980, smoke infiltration in MFDs (multi-family dwellings) was the NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT we got from the public."
That wont work. Some of us like to smoke a cig just before bed time, or like to be sitting in our recliners in our underwear watching a good movie. Some of use like to have a cig right after a meal at the kitchen table.
It wont make anyone money, it would cost everyone money because there would be no way the apartment would take on the cost of constructing a special room, plus maintain the venting system. All of that cost would get passed on to all of the renters, smokers or not. You would end up paying for a room through your rent that you will never use or go anywhere near.
It would be better for your apartment manager to have the venting system cleaned and checked, have the outside walls checked for cracks that would allow draft air to go through them, as well as have an asbestos test done on the entire complex.
I bet they find that building not exactly up to EPA recommended standards for multiple dwellings.
Originally posted by RFBurns
That suggests something wrong with the building, not caused by smokers. There is something that on certian times makes air go from one unit to another, ie a draft. Perhaps originating in the roof venting and then down into the walls.
You already have a smoke free future. No one is forcing you to sit in a smoker's home or room. You cannot hold a smoker responsible or take away their right to smoke becuase of the apartment buildings lack of clean air vents or bad construction and drafty units.
But in reality, you will never have a smoke free future. You can wipe off the face of the planet every single smoker there is, and you will still find that your breathing in far more toxins from exausts and contaminants from factories and refineries and other natural sources.
The world's problems are not the fault of smokers nor is it the smokers fault that people have health problems. And smokers are not the guina pig to be singled out just to have someone to blame.
If your really concerned about your health, than you need to expand on your search for the source of the problem and not take the quick easy pick on route because you just might overlook the very core of what is in fact the cause of the problem.
A smoking tenant moved into the condo above me, and everything I own reeks.
Q. Please help. A smoking tenant moved into the condo above me, and everything I own reeks. Please advise.
A. I am so sorry you are in this situation. I'm afraid I am not going to give you the encouraging news you want to hear. You are probably stuck, with your only option as moving.
What it boils down to is, although we should have the right to a smoke-free home, outweighing someone else's right to smoke in theirs, the problem is we are not far enough along in education so the rest of the world understands this. If it hasn't happened to them they don't think it's a big deal.
There is no question this is a nuisance that infringes on your right to a healthy, safe home that you can enjoy (a paragraph in all CC&Rs). There is no question the smoke travels through the air space owned by the association. But getting the Board of Directors to understand and agree is another story.
About your only hope is to find enough people in the building that are also bothered by the smoke and go as a group to the next meeting requesting that the building be declared non-smoking, including inside the units. If your board has never heard of this, they will tell you they "can't" do that. I have attached to my email reply back to you enough information for you to copy for them to show they "can" do this.
I have had a dry throat, scratchy eyes, and my clothes smell of smoke since I moved in. I can't sleep at night because the smell bothers me. Last night I used cardboard and duct tape to cover the vents and filter area, but I was unable to turn on the heat as it was cold last night. This is getting ridiculous! I have lived in several apartment complexes all over the country given my job and this is the most difficult situation that I have encountered. I went over to the management staff today, and they started to give me an attitude because they were sick of hearing from me. They told me that we have reached an impasse and the way the apartments were built in the 1980's there is nothing they can do. They offered to move me to another apartment in the complex, I told them that I would be interested, but they said that the onus would be on me. I would have to pay for the moving truck and movers. This should not be my responsibility and I told them that. The complex manager said that she has been doing this 25 years and that there are no laws in Colorado to support me. I asked if they would contact the gentlemen who is a chain smoker and they said that they would. She said that it was illegal for her to ask him to stop smoking. I don't have the time and have run out of patience with this whole thing. I will be working long hours beginning next week. I will have the lives of many of my soldiers in my hands and I need to be alert, concentrated, and healthy. I do not want to move out of this apartment (it has a great view), and if I did, I should not have to pay for a thing. I need your help and/or advice. I need this to be resolved quickly. It is supposed to snow here on Friday and I will need the heat on. In my lease it says "PROHIBITED CONDUCT: You and your occupants or guests may not engage in the following activities: criminal conduct; behaving in a loud or obnoxious manner; disturbing or threatening the rights, comfort, health, safety, or convenience of others (including our agents and employees) in or near the apartment community" (paragraph 20). I would assume the chain smoking gentleman has the same lease. PLEASE HELP ME! Feel free to contact me at ANYTIME. Thank you very much for everything.
Originally posted by TheRedneck
But statements like this:are simply asinine, to be bluntly honest. A proper wall (2x4 pine stud construction, insulated, with either sheetrock or paneling, built to National Building Code standards) will indeed stop any detectable influx from the other side. That's not cheesecloth you're hanging pictures on.
I don't know why people think walls stop this stuff, it does not.
The wall plugs, if they are up to code (or even close to it) are solid plastic with tiny openings for the wires and spring-action 'doors' over those openings to keep the wires in place. If they are still using older wiring, then you have sheet metal boxes with conduit attached and absolutely no holes for air to get through. All the entrances for the wires are either conduit connectors or at least sealed with box clamps. Even if this wasn't the case, any insulation inside the walls would stop the movement of air through said wall; that is the very PURPOSE of insulation, to stop air from escaping so it can insulate.
So, my question to you becomes, do you want to alleviate your stated health concerns, or do you want to complain about smokers next door? And if you still want to just complain, are you serious about your postings, or is this some game to you?
This is ATS. We deny ignorance here.
Originally posted by Glencairn
You're being gang stalked, too? So, maybe it isn't about evil neighbors trying to kill you with their smoke, maybe it's the gang stalkers.
Honestly, you're making claims that are flat out not physically possible.
I'm not saying that you don't dislike the smell of smoke, but your health just isn't being "ruined" by it.
People have offered advice, solutions, and other perspectives and you are ignoring them and I can't figure out why.
Do you want the problem solved or not?
If you aren't willing to even look for a solution, in favor of continued whining, what is it that you want?
You can't claim that you don't want to take anyone's rights away and then in the next sentence say that they don't even have the right to smoke in their own home because it irritates you.
That is hypocrisy.
Have you considered moving if it is "ruining" your health so badly?
If not, why not? Your neighbors are not doing anything illegal by smoking in their home, so you are out of line to tell them they can't. Your rights really don't trump theirs in this case.
I said this in the other thread, but it fully applies here, too:
On top of all the hypocrisy and flat out fanaticism in obsessing over new ways to take away the rights of smokers based on junk and/or monetarily biased science and wildly exaggerated anecdotal "evidence" of how they are on the verge of keeling over dead every time they even get so much as a hint of a whiff of smoke, they are excruciatingly patronizing to boot.
I don't know about anyone else, but for me personally, it just makes me that much more not interested in even listening to any perspective they might have to offer. If someone has something that they want me to know, being a patronizing hypocrite is the fastest way to get me to tune you out and light up another for a nice puff so that I can irritate you as much as you irritated me.
If the anti-smokers really cared about our health and wanted us to "think about the children", as they claim, they ought to think about losing the patronizing hypocrisy first. The victim attitude would be a fantastic second.
Originally posted by Heike
Or put another way, if you claim that the second hand smoke from a person smoking a cigarette in the car with you (0.33ppm CO) bothers you and the outside air (3 - 5 ppm and as much as 9 ppm CO or more on "bad air" days) in a city doesn't, you're lying.
There is MORE ambient CO in outside city air from car exhausts and other combustion than there would be from a person smoking in your apartment with you!
So tell us again how the air in your apartment has enough CO from the people next door smoking to bother you, but outside you're okay? The FACTS - the numbers - say different. And oh, by the way .. standing next to your gas stove or fireplace exposes you to a much higher ppm of CO than standing next to a smoker does.
Government Information Online: Ask A Librarian Project Continues »
Michigan Bar Employee Dies From Second-Hand Smoke
10:37:12 pm, Categories: State News, Smoking
Michigan Bar Employee Dies From Second-Hand Smoke
A 19-year-old woman shows up for work at a smoke-filled Michigan bar, appearing both healthy and happy. She's worked there without incident for several months. Fifteen minutes later, she collapses and dies within minutes of that.
No. An autopsy showed the woman died of a severe asthma attack. Dr. Ken Rosenman, a professor of medicine and chief of the division of occupational and environmental medicine at Michigan State University's College of Medicine, said the death is directly linked to the secondhand smoke in her workplace.
He published his findings this month in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine, making it what is believed to be the first documented link of secondhand smoke to an asthma-related death in an adult, Rosenman said.
"This is a very dramatic case," he said. "The other associations have been with chronic exposure. This is the first time someone dropped dead right there."
Speaking for myself, you see, it isn't that I don't care about impacting your health, it's that the FACTS and common sense tell me that I'm NOT really having any negative impact on your health.
You don't like the smell, but it's not hurting you, not any more than outdoor air in any big city does.
If I believed that it's actually hurting you, I would be very concerned.
But the facts tell me I'm not; you're just using the bogus "health concerns" argument to avoid the "annoyance and sensory impact" of the odor of cigarette smoke. Unfortunately, we all have to put up with unpleasant odors sometimes.
Originally posted by itinerantseeker
I brought up overweight people because they are in a similar boat that smokers are in. Both are viewed as negative and unhealthy examples are are pretty much being forced to give up their unhealthy habits, whether they like it or not to satisfy the so called do-gooders that don't realize that a persons individual rights are being violated.
Can't have a smoke outside anymore without having someone jump on them about it, and an overweight person gets ridiculed and lectured if they eat something that isn't "healthy". You obvioulsy have a problem at your apartment, you should not be able to smell it, but even if it is getting in, you aren't going to get cancer from it anyway. But if it's that horrible, then move. The anti smoker crowd would believe that the smoker(s) should move, but it's a two way street.
Originally posted by mopusvindictus
This is Funny stuff
Because in studies, cheep carpeting (the kind apt complexes in cali use) the dyes in the Fiber cause cancer, when air is blown through carpeting of the sort into Rat cages, some rats get tumors in under 2 weeks...
So apts that KILL You.... you can't smoke in, Sweet
This way, when you move in and unwittingly rent a place where Meth was being smoken regularly, and it stays in fibers and vents, you have to go outside for some fresh air to lite a cig...
Apartments suck, I mean they really, really do ... those complexes are, annoying anyway, damn filter changes and nosy neighbors right on your wall...
They should give out free smokes for renting
Typical apt around there is what 800.00
For 200.00 more you can rent a whole house, I hope all the complexes that helped push for this go out of business...
I don't smoke anymore, but this is moronic and wrong
Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by Heike
who cares if smoking causes cancer. It definitly kills you; I can promise you that.
[edit on 1/31/2009 by JPhish]
Originally posted by Heike
reply to post by Mynaeris
Yes, I have. What's your point? The concentrated smoke from dozens of people frenetically puffing away in a tiny enclosed area is in no way comparable to one or two adults smoking in an average sized dwelling, or one or a few people smoking outdoors where the smoke quickly dissipates and remains present in much lower concentrations than other ever-present pollutants.
[edit on 30-1-2009 by Heike]