Smoking Banned in Homes-California Adopts 'Hitler's Policy'

reply to post by Harassment101



I brought up overweight people because they are in a similar boat that smokers are in. Both are viewed as negative and unhealthy examples are are pretty much being forced to give up their unhealthy habits, whether they like it or not to satisfy the so called do-gooders that don't realize that a persons individual rights are being violated. Can't have a smoke outside anymore without having someone jump on them about it, and an overweight person gets ridiculed and lectured if they eat something that isn't "healthy". You obvioulsy have a problem at your apartment, you should not be able to smell it, but even if it is getting in, you aren't going to get cancer from it anyway. But if it's that horrible, then move. The anti smoker crowd would believe that the smoker(s) should move, but it's a two way street.

This is Funny stuff

Because in studies, cheep carpeting (the kind apt complexes in cali use) the dyes in the Fiber cause cancer, when air is blown through carpeting of the sort into Rat cages, some rats get tumors in under 2 weeks...

So apts that KILL You.... you can't smoke in, Sweet

This way, when you move in and unwittingly rent a place where Meth was being smoken regularly, and it stays in fibers and vents, you have to go outside for some fresh air to lite a cig...

Apartments suck, I mean they really, really do ... those complexes are, annoying anyway, damn filter changes and nosy neighbors right on your wall...

They should give out free smokes for renting

Typical apt around there is what 800.00

For 200.00 more you can rent a whole house, I hope all the complexes that helped push for this go out of business...

I don't smoke anymore, but this is moronic and wrong

Hitler was born in Austria

Swartzenegger was born in Austria


STOP ELECTING AUSTRIANS!!!

Originally posted by TheRedneck

But yeah, that old insulation can get pretty nasty after a few years. What you didn't mention is that when it sags, it opens those holes in the upper half of the wall, where there are no outlets, and gets denser down where the outlets are. If there is a draft as he is suggesting, there can't be a lick of insulation inside the wall and he would be able to see through the holes.

I'm thinking some sort of heating system problem, since it apparently only started during the winter months. There can be some nasty stuff hiding inside those vents, and the contaminates would be spread to the entire apartment complex.

(accepts the smoke)

TheRedneck

Very true. He did not mention exactly where or which outlets are the source for this smoke getting through to his apartment. It could be comming from outlets much higher up on the wall, or perhaps a light switch, those are usually chest hight and could be above the sagged insulation. Thats why I suggested the poor man's white toilet paper test. That way at least it can be determined where exactly the draft with the contaminants are getting through.

And it very well could be that heating/vent system since he noted that it started recently. He should have the maitenance guys check that system and clean out the vents, and probably if not done already, change out the intake filters. If its a shared air handling unit, there is no telling what kind of soot and muck is in that venting system, both intake and exausts.

It all seems to point to a problem with the building. I hope that it gets resolved before someone really ends up with serious breathing issues. Cig smoke can do harm, but a very badly maintained air handling and vent system plus drafty walls and old insulation will cause far more severe health issues than 2nd hand smoke will.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Hey, I just thought of something... maybe the manager is sitting downstairs blowing his smoke into the air return so he doesn't get caught smoking in the lobby.

ROFLMAO!!!


Cheers!!!!

[edit on 31-1-2009 by RFBurns]

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
Hitler was born in Austria

Swartzenegger was born in Austria


STOP ELECTING AUSTRIANS!!!

Seriously we need to get them all into good sales jobs because apparently some of them can convince people to do anything

FUN WITH LOGIC

(Bear with me, we'll be on topic before this is over).

Let's postulate a simple logic algorithm. If [A] is the primary cause of [B], then a decrease in [A] must result in a corresponding decrease of [B].

Not sure? Let's plug in real stuff and see how it works.

If [uncontrolled intersections] are the primary cause of [traffic accidents], then a decrease in [uncontrolled intersections] must result in a corresponding decrease of [traffic accidents] . So we put up some stop signs and traffic lights, reducing the number of uncontrolled intersections by 30%, and in the following months see a 25% reduction in traffic accidents. Didn't we just prove to ourselves that the uncontrolled intersections WERE a primary cause of traffic accidents?

Let's try another one.

If [stray dogs] are the primary cause of [dog bites], then a decrease in [stray dogs] must result in a corresponding decrease of [dog bites]. So we hire a dog catcher and decrease the number of stray dogs by 60%, but the number of dog bites only decreases by 10%. Oops. Guess we just effectively proved that stray dogs aren't the primary cause of dog bites. Didn't we?

Ok, now let's try something relevant.

If [smoking] is the primary cause of [cancer], then a decrease in (the number of people) [smoking] must result in a corresponding decrease of [cancer].

Well .. let's see.. from 1944 to 2006, the percentage of Americans smoking dropped from 45% to 21% .. a whopping 24% percent decrease. (Source) So, have we seen a corresponding decrease in cancer? The numbers were harder to find than I expected, but the answer is a resounding NO. Until the early 90's cancer incidence rates were still increasing, and in recent years they're making much ado of the slight (2%) decrease in cancer mortality rates (reflecting not how many new cases of cancer there were, but instead how many people died). A perusal of some of the stats featured HERE will show you that lung cancer rates actually "stabilized" or increased until just recently (2004).

So 54 years ago the decrease in the percentage of people smoking began to drop, but the incidence of cancer didn't start dropping until 4 years ago, and then only by 2% or less. Hmm.

So if [A] - smoking DECREASED (by 24%) over the past 54 years and [B]- cancer did NOT show anything like a corresponding decrease, then haven't we just effectively proven that smoking is NOT the primary cause of cancer? And we did it without any government funding, too. Man, we're good!


[edit on 31-1-2009 by Heike]

reply to post by Heike


who cares if smoking causes cancer. It definitly kills you; I can promise you that.

[edit on 1/31/2009 by JPhish]

Just a quick question somewhat under the topic

But do you people think that the law of 18 to buy cigarettes would ever be uplifted? Because it is the minors choice to do what they want with their body (as long as its legal) and if we want the choice of destroying our lungs and physical capability do you think that its our right?

I'm not a good student or anything but isn't that part of a consitutional right?

Originally posted by RFBurns

Not true. I live in an apartment complex. These buildings were built in the mid 1980's. I have a neighbor to my right, to my left, across the hall, and below me. None of them smoke. And none of them have complained about smelling my smoking or my wife's smoking. And these apartments are very well insulated. We live in Wyoming, where the wind blows regularly around 50mph and gusts up to 70+ mph. No one complains about smelling cig smoke eminating from the wall outlets.

And these apartments do not share air conditioner or heating vents. Each one has its own heat and air unit.

It really is like speaking a different language.

s-fhc.com...

How do I prove smoke is coming into our office from an apartment downstairs?

Q. We have an office that was a residential home. Another nail/clinic hair salon connects to the other side. Both employees smoke outside in the front of the building. This office has been there for over 20 years. There is an apartment below and in the back. A recent new hire has taken off work complaining of cigarette smoking coming in from the bottom apartment. I do not smell the tobacco smoke, other than the two employees when they are outside. She insists that the tobacco she says is affecting the work environment is coming from the downstairs (basement) apartment. I do not know how she has come to that conclusion. She has been our employee for two months. Is there any detecting device that can measure/detect the amount of nicotine in the room? Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you

A. I am glad you contacted me rather than just writing off the employee's concerns. It is very common for someone with health problems exacerbated by tobacco smoke to notice it when others do not. Just as an example, I have asthma and my husband and I purchased a condo only to find out the renters below smoked inside. Neither my husband, nor his family members that visited, ever smelled the smoke, but it affected my breathing to the extreme - even sending me to the emergency room. We were forced to move and sell that home.

There are a very large number of organizations working on this problem all over the U.S. and at least five other countries. Within that group are a number of professionals trying to find a way to "prove" the problem exists. It only takes a minute amount of tobacco smoke to cause a health problem. The particles are very fine and embed in the lungs, getting into the blood stream. Because it only takes a tiny amount to do serious damage we are finding it difficult to actually "prove" it. Just the fact that so many are working on this is the only statement I can give you at this time that explains the problem is very serious and common.

We do know that tobacco smoke cannot be contained inside even separately enclosed areas of any building. If air or water can seep through the walls so can the smoke. The smoke can travel through baseboards, electrical outlets, even sheetrock. Here are two quotes relating to apartment buildings, which apply to any building, that may help:

"I believe there is an enormous amount of pent-up demand for SF multifamily dwellings. When I was at the EPA's Office of Air Policy Analysis, as long ago as 1980, smoke infiltration in MFDs (multi-family dwellings) was the NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT we got from the public."

The smoke does go through. Just because you have neighbours that have not complained, does not mean it's not going through, or passivly affecting their health, without them knowing it. It might just be a matter of time.

That wont work. Some of us like to smoke a cig just before bed time, or like to be sitting in our recliners in our underwear watching a good movie. Some of use like to have a cig right after a meal at the kitchen table.

It wont make anyone money, it would cost everyone money because there would be no way the apartment would take on the cost of constructing a special room, plus maintain the venting system. All of that cost would get passed on to all of the renters, smokers or not. You would end up paying for a room through your rent that you will never use or go anywhere near.

Ok, this suggestion was made to find ways to work together. I admit since I try not to be around smokers, I forget a lot of the habits they have. Well since you are a smoker, why don't you make some suggestions. What will allow you to enjoy your addiction, and will not corrupt my enviornment?

It would be better for your apartment manager to have the venting system cleaned and checked, have the outside walls checked for cracks that would allow draft air to go through them, as well as have an asbestos test done on the entire complex.

I bet they find that building not exactly up to EPA recommended standards for multiple dwellings.



Cheers!!!!

See I have lived in a couple of apartments, condo, whatever and the smoke comes through from other apartments. If it was just one location, but it's not. In this specific location there is enough concern from others with the same problem, that I think it will get dealt with, without my having to be too concerned. They seem to be addressing it in some ways.

So again I don't know if the building is not well constructed, or if there are just a lot of sensitive people in the building, or the likely answer, smoke is getting in someway, somehow.

Originally posted by RFBurns
That suggests something wrong with the building, not caused by smokers. There is something that on certian times makes air go from one unit to another, ie a draft. Perhaps originating in the roof venting and then down into the walls.

From what I have read, this is a common problem and though many apartments could be poorly constructed, the problem seems to be that smoke can come through.

You already have a smoke free future. No one is forcing you to sit in a smoker's home or room. You cannot hold a smoker responsible or take away their right to smoke becuase of the apartment buildings lack of clean air vents or bad construction and drafty units.

I know you prefer to blame it on the apartment, and I don't know enough about the place to counteract this, but with all the other complains online, from others with the same problem, there seems to be more ongoing than faluty buildigs. Smokers don't seem to want to take responsibility, or admit their habit could be causing problems.

With the situation as it is, essentially I am being forced to sit in a smokers home. My own, without my consent.

But in reality, you will never have a smoke free future. You can wipe off the face of the planet every single smoker there is, and you will still find that your breathing in far more toxins from exausts and contaminants from factories and refineries and other natural sources.

Not in my home, at least not that it's a problem.

The world's problems are not the fault of smokers nor is it the smokers fault that people have health problems. And smokers are not the guina pig to be singled out just to have someone to blame.

No one ever said that the problems of the world were the fault of smokers.
They are not being singled out, they cause problems for people, and that is being addressed.

If your really concerned about your health, than you need to expand on your search for the source of the problem and not take the quick easy pick on route because you just might overlook the very core of what is in fact the cause of the problem.

I personally don't. I have done this already, and it's the smoke. So why would I duplicate my efforts.


Cheers!!!!

s-fhc.com...

A smoking tenant moved into the condo above me, and everything I own reeks.

Q. Please help. A smoking tenant moved into the condo above me, and everything I own reeks. Please advise.

A. I am so sorry you are in this situation. I'm afraid I am not going to give you the encouraging news you want to hear. You are probably stuck, with your only option as moving.

What it boils down to is, although we should have the right to a smoke-free home, outweighing someone else's right to smoke in theirs, the problem is we are not far enough along in education so the rest of the world understands this. If it hasn't happened to them they don't think it's a big deal.

There is no question this is a nuisance that infringes on your right to a healthy, safe home that you can enjoy (a paragraph in all CC&Rs). There is no question the smoke travels through the air space owned by the association. But getting the Board of Directors to understand and agree is another story.

About your only hope is to find enough people in the building that are also bothered by the smoke and go as a group to the next meeting requesting that the building be declared non-smoking, including inside the units. If your board has never heard of this, they will tell you they "can't" do that. I have attached to my email reply back to you enough information for you to copy for them to show they "can" do this.

Thus why these actions are being taken.

s-fhc.com...

I have had a dry throat, scratchy eyes, and my clothes smell of smoke since I moved in. I can't sleep at night because the smell bothers me. Last night I used cardboard and duct tape to cover the vents and filter area, but I was unable to turn on the heat as it was cold last night. This is getting ridiculous! I have lived in several apartment complexes all over the country given my job and this is the most difficult situation that I have encountered. I went over to the management staff today, and they started to give me an attitude because they were sick of hearing from me. They told me that we have reached an impasse and the way the apartments were built in the 1980's there is nothing they can do. They offered to move me to another apartment in the complex, I told them that I would be interested, but they said that the onus would be on me. I would have to pay for the moving truck and movers. This should not be my responsibility and I told them that. The complex manager said that she has been doing this 25 years and that there are no laws in Colorado to support me. I asked if they would contact the gentlemen who is a chain smoker and they said that they would. She said that it was illegal for her to ask him to stop smoking. I don't have the time and have run out of patience with this whole thing. I will be working long hours beginning next week. I will have the lives of many of my soldiers in my hands and I need to be alert, concentrated, and healthy. I do not want to move out of this apartment (it has a great view), and if I did, I should not have to pay for a thing. I need your help and/or advice. I need this to be resolved quickly. It is supposed to snow here on Friday and I will need the heat on. In my lease it says "PROHIBITED CONDUCT: You and your occupants or guests may not engage in the following activities: criminal conduct; behaving in a loud or obnoxious manner; disturbing or threatening the rights, comfort, health, safety, or convenience of others (including our agents and employees) in or near the apartment community" (paragraph 20). I would assume the chain smoking gentleman has the same lease. PLEASE HELP ME! Feel free to contact me at ANYTIME. Thank you very much for everything.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
But statements like this:

I don't know why people think walls stop this stuff, it does not.

are simply asinine, to be bluntly honest. A proper wall (2x4 pine stud construction, insulated, with either sheetrock or paneling, built to National Building Code standards) will indeed stop any detectable influx from the other side. That's not cheesecloth you're hanging pictures on.

The wall plugs, if they are up to code (or even close to it) are solid plastic with tiny openings for the wires and spring-action 'doors' over those openings to keep the wires in place. If they are still using older wiring, then you have sheet metal boxes with conduit attached and absolutely no holes for air to get through. All the entrances for the wires are either conduit connectors or at least sealed with box clamps. Even if this wasn't the case, any insulation inside the walls would stop the movement of air through said wall; that is the very PURPOSE of insulation, to stop air from escaping so it can insulate.

You have explained this very well, I applaude you, but the fact remains, the information that I am coming across, is showing that smoke my come into multiple dwelling units regardless, please see some of my recent postings.

So, my question to you becomes, do you want to alleviate your stated health concerns, or do you want to complain about smokers next door? And if you still want to just complain, are you serious about your postings, or is this some game to you?

I think to the people who are not being affected, it's a game to them, because there are no stakes. I don't need to complain about smokers. Some are decent and understand what they are doing to others, and have tried to butt out, or to be considerate when smoking. I applaud those people. For other situations the only thing that does work, is legislation, to protect the rights of non smokers.

This is ATS. We deny ignorance here.

TheRedneck

Then please start doing so, and find out why non smokers are saying the things they are saying about cigarette smoke.

Originally posted by Glencairn

You're being gang stalked, too? So, maybe it isn't about evil neighbors trying to kill you with their smoke, maybe it's the gang stalkers.

No this perticular person just likes to smoke. There are other ways to kill targets.

Honestly, you're making claims that are flat out not physically possible.

Can you clearify which claims are not possible? Thanks.

I'm not saying that you don't dislike the smell of smoke, but your health just isn't being "ruined" by it.

Actually you are quite wrong. You clearly do not understand the issues relating to this. This can ruin the health of smoke people. Please see some of my recent postings.

People have offered advice, solutions, and other perspectives and you are ignoring them and I can't figure out why.

What they have actually done, is tell me that the smoke is so small it could not be affecting me, that it could not be coming into the apartment, and that if it is, it's not the fault of the smoker, it has to be shoddy buildings.

Do you want the problem solved or not?

Oh it will be solved. This is not a new problem, this is not about me, this is about all people who don't want to have to put up with these types of conditions. Little by little, it's getting solved.

If you aren't willing to even look for a solution, in favor of continued whining, what is it that you want?

I am so sorry that my concerns about smokers is seen as whining. I rather thought it was the other way around recently.

You can't claim that you don't want to take anyone's rights away and then in the next sentence say that they don't even have the right to smoke in their own home because it irritates you.

Actually I don't want to take anyones rights away, but if you had a loaded gun, and you took it out and fired it once in awhile, and I lived beside you, I would do what I coud to stop you. The same is true with smoking. I want people to own guns if they want to, but I don't want to be affect by their inconsiderate actions.

That is hypocrisy.

Yes standing up for ones rights, hypocricy indeed. This is the lay down and take it generation is it not?

Have you considered moving if it is "ruining" your health so badly?

In the past as a non smoker, that would have been my only choice, but it's a new day, we no longer have to be on the run for our health, although many still are. Why should non smokers have to flee? The sad part is, this is still the case in many places.

If not, why not? Your neighbors are not doing anything illegal by smoking in their home, so you are out of line to tell them they can't. Your rights really don't trump theirs in this case.

I have not told them that they can't smoke. I will leave that up to others. The laws are changing. Plus like I said, there are others who have already complained about the smoke coming into apartments, so I think it will be dealt with.

By the way, in wanting to have a smoke free apartment, I am not doing anything illegal either. I am not the one with the addiction.

I said this in the other thread, but it fully applies here, too:
On top of all the hypocrisy and flat out fanaticism in obsessing over new ways to take away the rights of smokers based on junk and/or monetarily biased science and wildly exaggerated anecdotal "evidence" of how they are on the verge of keeling over dead every time they even get so much as a hint of a whiff of smoke, they are excruciatingly patronizing to boot.

The scary part is that you don't understand that this is the case with some people. Some get so bad they have to go to the hospital, or it cuts of their breathing.

I don't know about anyone else, but for me personally, it just makes me that much more not interested in even listening to any perspective they might have to offer. If someone has something that they want me to know, being a patronizing hypocrite is the fastest way to get me to tune you out and light up another for a nice puff so that I can irritate you as much as you irritated me.

That has been the case, the not listening, the not validating what people are trying to tell you. Tune out, there is more than one way to get the point across. Thus non smokers have had to find other ways.

If the anti-smokers really cared about our health and wanted us to "think about the children", as they claim, they ought to think about losing the patronizing hypocrisy first. The victim attitude would be a fantastic second.

Take care,
Cindi

Thanks for that Cindi. I am sorry, but at this stage, I don't think some people will come about no matter what is said, this is an old argument, and the only peace many non smokers have found is in legislation to protect them at work, resturants, bars, clubs, and soon their homes.

I would love to see another way for smokers to keep their rights, I don't want to take anyones rights, but I will protect my own.

Originally posted by Heike

Or put another way, if you claim that the second hand smoke from a person smoking a cigarette in the car with you (0.33ppm CO) bothers you and the outside air (3 - 5 ppm and as much as 9 ppm CO or more on "bad air" days) in a city doesn't, you're lying.

There you have, you dug up some lovely figure, to tell me that if I am fine when walking outside, but getting ill of someones second hand smoke when indoors, I must be lying. The numbers have clearly showed that despite the hundreads of thousands of complaints of non smokers to the contrary, that we are lying, or more specifically i am lying. Well there you have it. It's not the fault of the smokers, it's the bad buildings, it's non smokers lying and gripping, the air outside is worst.

I am telling the truth in regards to this matter, and my concerns with the smoking, the same concerns many others are voicing if you would look around.

There is MORE ambient CO in outside city air from car exhausts and other combustion than there would be from a person smoking in your apartment with you!

Yet when walking outside I am fine. The same is true for many other non smokers who are fine outside, but can not be at peace within their own homes.

So tell us again how the air in your apartment has enough CO from the people next door smoking to bother you, but outside you're okay? The FACTS - the numbers - say different. And oh, by the way .. standing next to your gas stove or fireplace exposes you to a much higher ppm of CO than standing next to a smoker does.

The cigarette smoke is coming into my apartment, and is making me ill. Don't know what's in them, don't care, they are the source of the problem. Don't know if it's coming through vents, walls, floors, whatever, but it's getting in from ajoining unit, and affecting my health. The same is true for others who have made the complaint.

I could careless what the numbers say at this moment, because the personal experience of myself and others tells a very different story.


blogpublic.lib.msu.edu...

Government Information Online: Ask A Librarian Project Continues »

Michigan Bar Employee Dies From Second-Hand Smoke
02/09/08
10:37:12 pm, Categories: State News, Smoking
Michigan Bar Employee Dies From Second-Hand Smoke

A 19-year-old woman shows up for work at a smoke-filled Michigan bar, appearing both healthy and happy. She's worked there without incident for several months. Fifteen minutes later, she collapses and dies within minutes of that.

A mystery?

No. An autopsy showed the woman died of a severe asthma attack. Dr. Ken Rosenman, a professor of medicine and chief of the division of occupational and environmental medicine at Michigan State University's College of Medicine, said the death is directly linked to the secondhand smoke in her workplace.

He published his findings this month in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine, making it what is believed to be the first documented link of secondhand smoke to an asthma-related death in an adult, Rosenman said.

"This is a very dramatic case," he said. "The other associations have been with chronic exposure. This is the first time someone dropped dead right there."

Now she died at work, but I have heard of many who have these attacks in home, due to the smoke. There is obviously something in these cigarettes that is capable of triggering this react in some people.

Speaking for myself, you see, it isn't that I don't care about impacting your health, it's that the FACTS and common sense tell me that I'm NOT really having any negative impact on your health.

Great you should stick to your common sense, sounds like you need it.

I will stick to what I know, and have experienced. That will always speak a lot louder.

You don't like the smell, but it's not hurting you, not any more than outdoor air in any big city does.

That's complete BS. Period.

If I believed that it's actually hurting you, I would be very concerned.

Doesn't matter what you believe, look how many people believe false things, till those being affected show them the truth. Your concern is not needed. All that is needed is finding ways to make sure that smokers, don't affect the health of non smokers, what they believe is irrelavant.
Sorry if this comes across as arrogant, but over the years, I see that there is a group that will understand and respect others, and then there is a group that will hang on to the very last puff, while they take others with them.

But the facts tell me I'm not; you're just using the bogus "health concerns" argument to avoid the "annoyance and sensory impact" of the odor of cigarette smoke. Unfortunately, we all have to put up with unpleasant odors sometimes.

Ah well there you have it, bogus arguments, your facts have spoken, I can tell you, the other side and our facts are starting to speak a lot louder. Does this mean we are correct? Not always, but this has come about after years of people not understanding the impact they are having, and choosing to not believe it. While our health continues to be affected by their addiction.

Originally posted by itinerantseeker


I brought up overweight people because they are in a similar boat that smokers are in. Both are viewed as negative and unhealthy examples are are pretty much being forced to give up their unhealthy habits, whether they like it or not to satisfy the so called do-gooders that don't realize that a persons individual rights are being violated.

With being overweight if it affects their health and they choose the lifestyle then it's not really someones concern, unless their ill health affects you or society.

Can't have a smoke outside anymore without having someone jump on them about it, and an overweight person gets ridiculed and lectured if they eat something that isn't "healthy". You obvioulsy have a problem at your apartment, you should not be able to smell it, but even if it is getting in, you aren't going to get cancer from it anyway. But if it's that horrible, then move. The anti smoker crowd would believe that the smoker(s) should move, but it's a two way street.

I didn't say cancer. I said ill health. I should not have to move due to someones addiction. I think that it's a two way street. No one should have to move, but then a solution has to be found, cause no one should be made ill due to someone else's habits.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
This is Funny stuff

Because in studies, cheep carpeting (the kind apt complexes in cali use) the dyes in the Fiber cause cancer, when air is blown through carpeting of the sort into Rat cages, some rats get tumors in under 2 weeks...

So apts that KILL You.... you can't smoke in, Sweet

This way, when you move in and unwittingly rent a place where Meth was being smoken regularly, and it stays in fibers and vents, you have to go outside for some fresh air to lite a cig...

Apartments suck, I mean they really, really do ... those complexes are, annoying anyway, damn filter changes and nosy neighbors right on your wall...

They should give out free smokes for renting

Typical apt around there is what 800.00

For 200.00 more you can rent a whole house, I hope all the complexes that helped push for this go out of business...

I don't smoke anymore, but this is moronic and wrong

Where do you live, that you can get a house to rent for a grand?

[edit on 31-1-2009 by Harassment101]

Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by Heike

 

who cares if smoking causes cancer. It definitly kills you; I can promise you that.

[edit on 1/31/2009 by JPhish]

I can also prove it does kill, and was not talking cancer either.

I hope the majority here understand that cancer was not what was being addressed. Ill health can mean many things. You can see some of the examples in the more recent postings.

Well dont know what else to tell you, smokers will be here, will continue to smoke, and until the state of this free country changes from being a free country to a dictatorship or socialist state and bans smoking, I and millions of others will continue to light up.

I would suggest moving if it is that much of a problem. I guarantee you those smokers are not going to move.



Cheers!!!!

reply to post by Harassment101


Harassment101: I totally hear you.

We used to live in an apartment in New York City and every morning when the guy in the apartment below us would wake up he would have his morning cigarette. We know this because our apartment would be filled with the smell of nicotine. We tried speaking to him about it, and he would deny he smoked indoors - except we saw him smoking one day when he opened the door, then he apologised and said it would never happen again, and he obviously tried not to smoke in his bedroom, but instead he would smoke in the bathroom , fumigating you off the toilet if that was his smoke break.

Other occasions he or any one of the smokers in the building would smoke directly outside our door, or in the elevator. Ever been in an elevator where someone had just smoked? It's pretty much like those smoking rooms at the airport. I start wheezing and coughing and it lasts for minutes.

Before anybody suggests I should worry about my twinkies I am 6' tall and weigh 130 lbs. Before anybody suggests it's all my cars fault - living in New York we never used a car, and a cab a hand full of times a year.

Originally posted by Heike
reply to post by Mynaeris

 

Yes, I have. What's your point? The concentrated smoke from dozens of people frenetically puffing away in a tiny enclosed area is in no way comparable to one or two adults smoking in an average sized dwelling, or one or a few people smoking outdoors where the smoke quickly dissipates and remains present in much lower concentrations than other ever-present pollutants.


[edit on 30-1-2009 by Heike]

You prove my point - being in a smoking environment isn't healthy, and it's definitely not a pleasant environment. So why subject others to it. It is also the reason why smokers will never agree to smoking rooms - because it's unpleasant.

Cant imagine how all the non smokers will deal with having to be next to a wood burning fire for cooking and staying warm when SHTF.

All that smoke...worse smoke than cig smoke btw....getting into your clothes, your tent, oh yes the wonderful smell of wood burning smoke eminating from thousands of camp fires scattered all over the countryside...smoke being blown in your direction, into your open tent, into your face, into your "clean air" zone...

What ya gonna do...petition to ban everyone's camp fire because the smoke bothers you? Heh..who would you petition for a ban during a SHTF situation?!!!!

Weak...very very weak body tolorances IMO. Chances are quite good the non smokers wont last very long in a SHTF situation. My bet is less than a week.




Cheers!!!!


Cheers!!!!