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Originally posted by HeikeHowever, the whole "health concerns" thing is nonsense. Respiratory problems are much more likely to be caused by other gases and pollutants; have they been tested for in your apartment and these others? Just because you can SMELL the cigarette smoke doesn't mean it's the cause of your problems. Many other (and far more harmful) gases and pollutants have no odor. In fact, common household DUST is far more likely to be causing your respiratory problems than cigarette smoke. Dust actually has allergens in it; cigarette smoke doesn't.
Originally posted by TheRedneck
Harrassment, we need to sit down and look at your claims with a bit of reality here. You are claiming that second-hand smoke is dangerous to your health, and that it is seeping through wall outlets and cracks in sufficient quantity to adversely affect your health.
Now, in the apartment next to you are humans who are smoking regularly... I'll even give you the possibility that they smoke as much as I do (proudly does his impersonation of a chimney). They are releasing smoke from the ends of their burning cigarettes, as well as breathing out the same smoke (although filtered) from their lungs. That in itself means they are inhaling the smoke directly and therefore are getting a much larger dose than is being exhaled. Unless, of course, you are arguing that somehow the smoke intensifies by them absorbing the nicotine.
Now, with the source of the offending smoke in an adjacent room, that would mean that your apartment, if there were no wall whatsoever, would have less of a concentration of smoke than their apartment. Considering the fact that you have a wall, even a porous one, between you, the amount of cigarette smoke that can physically enter your apartment is minuscule. That smoke will be mixed with the air already in your apartment, which I will assume has not been polluted by cigarette smoke from your apartment. That further diminishes the concentration of potential cigarette smoke that could possibly be coming into your apartment.
That means we have the following alternatives:
- You are extremely sensitive to cigarette smoke, and therefore could no doubt make a small fortune by allowing yourself to be used for medical tests for hyper-allergenic reactions. I would check into this, because if you are that sensitive to that small an amount of cigarette smoke, you will drop dead if you ever get within twenty feet of a running car.
The real culprit is not cigarette smoke from the next apartment, but rather any of a number of different airborne toxins that may be permeating the atmosphere since you chose to live in a city environment. (Oops, sorry, forgot only smokers actually choose to do things... my bad.)
Your apartment building has huge fans installed inside the walls that are pushing smoke into your apartment.
You have developed a nicotine magnet that is drawing the smoke into your apartment, leaving the one next door with the smokers in it nice and clean.
There are dead bodies next door to you mummified in all the cigarette smoke, which must be so thick as to be considered a solid rather than a group of airborne particles
You like to complain, and this is the best you can do for right now since your life is so great in every other way.
You're making this whole story up to get attention.
Yeah, I call BS on this one too.
TheRedneck
Originally posted by Heike
You know, I really really try to be courteous and polite and discuss the post - and the issue at hand - rather than the person posting. But it's getting tough here
You're posting "real life examples" and expecting me to take them at face value. Okay, here's one for you. My friend Sharon has an adult daughter. Said daughter has severe asthma. Sharon has fibromyalgia and other health issues which prevent her from working full time, so about a year ago she had to move in with her daughter. In warm weather Sharon smokes outside, but in cold or otherwise bad weather she smokes in her bedroom with the door closed. And the daughter, severe asthma and all, is serenely unaffected by Mom's SHS in spite of the fact that there's nothing between them but a closed bedroom door and Sharon smokes like a chimney.
And as "evidence" I present to you the hundreds of thousands of us baby boomers who grew up in homes with smoking parents and have NO respiratory problems. No asthma, no COPD, no lung cancer. WE were fine watching TV in the smoke-filled living rooms of our childhood, apparently because no one had yet told us how harmful it was. Or are today's kids just so much weaker and sickly than we were?
There's some real life FACTS for you, not biased research that WANTS to get the result that second hand smoke is harmful.
My Dad has prostate cancer and every one of his seven siblings has died of cancer. But guess what, neither of their parents smoked and only one of his brothers did. My husband's family, on the other hand .. they all smoked and none of them have cancer or died of it. Oh, and my Dad's family didn't grow up in a big polluted city either, they were raised on a farm in the boothill of Missouri. Go figure.
Originally posted by RFBurns
reply to post by Harassment101
There is a "poor man's" test method to see if in fact you have cig smoke comming through those electrical outlets and the walls themselves.
Take a roll of white toilet paper and tape a single layer around the outlet, leaving a hole of course for your plugs. Let them sit there for a few days.
Then after a few days, remove them and see if the other side of the toilet paper is brown in color, not black or grey, but brown.
This will tell you if in fact you got the next door neighbor's cig smoke leaking through the walls and out through the electrical outlets.
BTW, how old is your apartment building?
If you see a light grey or dark grey shade, that is NOT cig smoke, but in fact old outdated, asbestos saturated insulation that will be far more of a pressing issue of a health hazard than any cig smoke you have ever been exposed to, or ever will be exposed to.
Cheers!!!!
[edit on 30-1-2009 by RFBurns]
Still I don't like to see people's rights taken away, and I would be more than happy to look at other alternatives.
Originally posted by itinerantseeker
You've obviously never sat next to a smelly overweight person in an airplane. It does affect my health sitting next to them, their body odor is so strong, I get ready to puke and do feel ill. I can only get up to go to the back of the plane only so much. At least when a smoker lights up, I can just move a few feet away. I'm not saying a person who doesn't shower is actually going to destroy my health and kill me but it's the discomfort of the situation is what I was getting at. But this example you quoted from my post was not the point and is obvious you didn't get it. Someone lighting up near you will not kill you. There are things out in the world that could kill you off a lot more quickly and more painfully. You've let the anti smoking campaign really warp your brain didn't you? I think you need to look at things unbiasedly.
I've known lots of people who've smoked old and young. Not to many with respiratory issues and lung cancer. My grandma smoked till she died, and guess what? no lung cancer, no breathing problems. One poster wrote that when the baby boomers were young, they had to grow up with everyone smoking up the living rooms. Is everyone from that generation dead from lung cancer. I personally don't smoke, I think it's disgusting and don't like to be in a smoke filled room. But guess what, I respect the fact that they smoke and I just move away from it. You don't have to move far, just a few feet. I've also never told anyone that they should stop, it's not my place to do it, they are grown adults they know the risks of it and can decide for themselves if they want to continue it.
Originally posted by RFBurns
reply to post by Harassment101
I suggest doing the test becasue if there is draft going in between the walls and your saying you and other tenants smell cig smoke, then obviously that building is not of recent construction and most likely does have that old, and very toxic asbestos insulation in the walls.
Asbestos, is not just an insulation, but also a fire retardent material. After it ages, usually 10 or so years, and due to construction faults, if draft gets into it, then you also got other contaminants that will "stick" to this asbestos insulation, along with the cig smoke elements. You could be smelling 10 plus year old cig elements along with far more toxic elements that naturally are within asbestos.
Ever wonder why construction workers wear air filter masks when pumping in that type of insulation or laying out normal fiber insulation?
Its becasue both contain very fine glass strands. Once both types of insulation ages, they "let go" of some of those fine glass strands and into the air you breathe, forced through those outlets by any draft air reaching the insulation from cracks in the outer walls or by simple "creep" of construction that occurs in any structure.
Cheers!!!!
Originally posted by Harassment101
It's non of the above, it's winter, people don't want to go outside or on balconies to smoke anymore so they smoke in apartments, and some of the kids smoke elsewhere. So residents have made complaints about it, cause it rises up into thier apartments.
I don't know why people think walls stop this stuff, it does not. I also don't think it's just about poorly constucted buildings. There are people even in modern buildings and it's the same problems.
Originally posted by Harassment101
To work together to stop this, apartments would have to create a smoking room, which is a fully ventilated area, maybe glassed off, that does not let the smoke rise up, or to the sides. That's the only thing I can think of, or seperate apartments.
Someone could make a lot of money by creating a portable smoking room, one that keeps smoke in, and obsorbs the odours, and chemicals.
Originally posted by Harassment101
The problem is it was fine till recently. I suspect it will soon correct itself again, but for other people, this problem is 24/7 365 days and many have children, can not move, or take legal actions, and so suffer with it. They miss time off work because the smoke causes a whack of ailments in some that it does not in others.
Originally posted by Harassment101
People just really don't understand this, and then they get upset thinking that people are trying to take away their rights, but many are just fighting for their right to have a smoke free future.
are simply asinine, to be bluntly honest. A proper wall (2x4 pine stud construction, insulated, with either sheetrock or paneling, built to National Building Code standards) will indeed stop any detectable influx from the other side. That's not cheesecloth you're hanging pictures on.
I don't know why people think walls stop this stuff, it does not.
Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by asmeone2
Won't happen; brings in way too many tax dollars.
But, these days, nothing surprises me or would surprise me. It isn't like we are a free country any longer......
Conservative? By banning smoking in apartments/condos?? That's a more liberal agenda....all the conservatives I know smoke like chimneys and drink like fish.
[edit on 1/29/2009 by skeptic1]
Originally posted by Harassment101
Hey all too familiar with things that can kill you far more quickly. Look up the term Gang STalking sometime. www.GangSTalkingUnited.com...
I have not let the anti-smoking campaign blind me, I am all too aware of the dangers of smoking, and the problems that go with it, for smokers and non smokers alike.