Schools can expel students that 'seem gay', appeals court rules

It's terrible that such ignorance can be found so commonly today.

Not only is the school ignorant and intolerant towards homosexuals, people who know about this new rule and yet continue to give money TO that school and allow their children to attend are even worse.

Idiots really grind my gears. Intolerance is synonymous with idiocracy in my Bible, Merriam-Webster.

Edit to add: Dbates... Very clever.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Alexander_Supertramp]

Would a christian be permitted to pray inside a mosque?

Would a gay man even be permitted into a mosque?

Aside from this being a private organization, we need to look at this issue in a larger context.

In every sect of society, those with like morals and values have someplace to go to congregate with those of similar interests.

This school has a set of core values, like them or not, these people think they are right in their beliefs. I am not one to judge the morality of others, and for a site that preaches deny ignorance, we have a good deal of people that think their way is the only way and the rest of the world should be like them. That isnt the way its supposed to work. Who are you to say I am wrong because I believe XYZ and you believe ABC?

This school obviously teaches against homosexuality. They pay for it, they can teach whatever they will.

The Masters golf club is restricted to male only members. Nothing against the ladies, but men created it that way, thats how it is.

Curves is a female only workout gym. Created that way, thats how it is.

Im not saying this school is right or wrong, Im not saying the Masters should allow women members, nor do I want to work out at Curves.

These organizations were created with the ideas and ideals of certain sects of people. Same as a mosque, the Elks Club, Boy Scouts, or any of a million organizations out there.

All of these organizations, clubs, schools what have you are different in some way. And that is their right. They are groups of people who banded together to explore their ideas and ideals and to promote them. Should we ever make the mistake of forcing every organization to be all inclusive and honor everyones interest, we have nothing. No more identity, no ability to see and learn from our differences.

People have different views and values. They should always have the opprutunity to organize with others with similar.

Well being both a 3L and a Lutheran I am interested in this situation.
I couldn't find a SC case on point. It does seem to suggest that a private school can do what they want but if it has some "public" interest or aspect then maybe an argument could be made. I would hope some lawyer or these lawyers tweek the issue to get it to the SC. The level of judicial scrutiny is less than a fundamental right would get or "strict scrutiny" but sexual orientation is a suspect class and that only gets "intermediate"
...I know that case law supports private discrimination to an extent but I think it needs to be challenged more.
...but the way something like this situation will be fixed is for the members of the Lutheran denomanation to fix it.....I suppose this "Lutheran" school is some Missouri synod or some radical or tenously tied to the mainstream Lutheran church....ie, think of Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox.
Mainstream Lutherans oppose this kind of intolerance! At the very most you will get the "love the sinner, hate the sin" type crap. But they would be offended that someone would be booted out of a Christian education because of their sexual orientation. (the whole baby with the bathwater type thing) So.............
If this school is mainstream Lutheran backed....then hopefully word will get out and this school will either be forced to "repent" or be compelled to remove their affiliation with the Lutheran Church...
As a member of the ALC "American Lutheran Church" I find this schools conduct deplorable and not keeping with the example and the teachings of our Lord.

reply to post by salchanra


There was a time when many organization were "white only" -- perceived to be perfectly OK at the time (at least by the whites in them). Today that would not be allowed -- private or not! Now why would that be???
Could the private school exclude blacks if it wanted to today?
I don't think so.

The issue of discrimination against people who are gay is just as ridiculous as the old discrimination against blacks. Its an inherited trait just like skin colour is, and thing more.

Now, while being gay is not a choice, lifestyle is; and so any guy who is flamboyant or girl who is butch, gay or straight, is vulnerable to righteous religious persecution if you go to one of those schools!

reply to post by wayno


Everytime I post in breaking news I run into you.

Yes, there was horrible black/white segregation in the US for years, and slowly its going away. Thats very good. We have finally gotten past skin color as a judge of character.

No school, church, employer should have the right to discriminate on that line. Exception being the KKK, but something tells me a black man wouldnt really want to join, just a thought.

Trouble with your point is one that is still contested on alot of levels. That is some people believe you are born gay, others believe you become gay. I cant become black, but Im pretty sure I could become gay if I so chose.

I dont want to get into an arguement about born gay or become gay, thats for a different thread. However, like climate change, NWO, and Greys, this matter is still debatable, and the religious school obviously made their choice. They think it is wrong in the eyes of their creator. Doesnt matter if you or I think they are right or wrong, or even if God exists in our eyes. Sure does with them, and I am in no posistion, as are any of us to say they are wrong and we are right and force our ideas upon them. No different than me coming into your home telling you that from now on you must own a firearm. Just because I think its correct doesnt mean it is to everyone.

How long do you think an Atheist school would last if it kicked one person out who was praying in public?

In utah in the last couple years, some girl was in the drama club and didnt want to swear (as required by the lines and the part she chose to play). They failed her, she sued and won.

Why do religious people get so many auto-passes in society?

reply to post by salchanra


No you really couldn't become gay by choice. You can probably do the actions associated with being Gay.

Heres the determining factor, when in a crowded room full of attractive people of both genders, where do your eyes wander? (Without consciously directing them). That illustrates the sex drive part.

If you lack attraction-going through the motions means you are a fraud, nothing more.

It is a private institution that gets no public funds. People pay to attend this school and the school can make whatever rules it wants.

I may not like it, you may not like it, but guess what?? No tax dollars, no government funding goes to this school. It is their call.....no matter how disgusting some of us find it.

Yeah, i do agree that private schools can do whatever they want when it comes to the rules, but i'm still offended. As a member of the gay community this is discrimination.

Way to go Christianity...another Ace in the hole.

Yep - being a private school they can do it.
The question is - why would they?

And getting a big kick out of "seems" to be gay. What?! Perceptions are just perceptions. Nothing truly can be based on what it "seems" to be.

Oh people - can't we just let each other be?

reply to post by spinkyboo


Why would they? Why does a dog lick himself?? Because he CAN.

I went to private school all through my elementary and high school days, and private schools do have their good points: small class size, advanced classes, fewer people, more experienced teachers, etc.

But, they are also low on diversity; I never went to school with a minority until I started college. You go to school with the same people from kindergarted on.....try dating someone you've known since you were both 5 (it's like dating a sibling). And, these places don't like to implement anything new or different; the status quo is fine with them.

But, they can do what they want, because no one is paying them except for the parents of the students that go there. Those people are the only ones that these schools answer to.

I spent half my school years in private schools and can tell you that there are alot of students in the private schools that behave in a way that goes against the private schools standards and beliefs.

If they want to go to a school that disagrees with their lifestyle and they enjoy sitting through chapel listening to the scriptures that specifically speak against homosexuality then so be it.

I don't fully agree with them expelling the students but I can see how it would upset the parents who have decided to pay extra on top of their already large school taxes to send their students to a school that will put their children in an environment that will nurture the students in the particular beliefs of the parents.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
How exactly does one "seem" to be gay?
You either are, or are not. There is no "seem" about it.

Well, no.

What about bi-sexuals? What about bi-curious?

There's more than just homo and straight.

Welcome to AmeriKa. What's next? Expelling kids for looking too Emo??

As others have said, it's a private school. It's sick that the out-of-touch old farts running the Catholic Church take the route of homophobia, intolerance, and bigotry, but it's their choice to do so if they wish.

When you try to argue that a private school can't dictate who is a member and who is not, based on whatever you want, then you also take that right away from yourself.

In other words, if you're saying that a person can't be kicked out of private school for whatever the school wishes, then the same rule applies to you and your property. That would be unacceptable.

Private means exactly that: Private, even if it's intolerant, hateful, and ignorant. The government has no business in our private lives.

I'm not sure what I find more troubling:

* That the students were expelled for "seeming" gay, or

* That future lawsuits will now require witchhunts to "prove" someone was gay.


While it's fine that private schools should have the latitude to operate however they see fit, it has to be extremely troubling that the best answer they can give a court is that the students "seem" to be gay.

The precedent that is now set is worse than the remedy. If the school truly had a meritorious case to expel the students, surely reasonable people could have worked this out without a brawl in the courtroom.

This is a clear case where unreasonable people are digging in their heels, and the resulting fallout can only make reasonable discourse tougher to achieve.

Sad all the way around.

One thing that particularly disturbs me about this is the 'seems gay' part, and by the looks of the previous comments it's a common concern as well as the bigotry displayed by the private school.

Don't they realise the bullying this could cause, the repression of feelings of those there that are 'in the closet' as it were? This is going to cause a lot of children to be incredibly messed up in the future that attend that school.

Perfectly loathsome IMO, but they are operating within their legal rights.

The hard part of freedom is allowing others the freedom to do things you believe are wrong...

While I don't agree with it, they have the right to do so ( it is a religous school) Where suppose to have rights as Americans the right not to send your child to that school theright for that school not to accept your child. Send your kid to public school or enroll himher in a different private school simple. People it is about rights and choice. Who cares if this school won't accept gaysthats thier right why would you want to send you kid their if they have a different belief system then yours?

Common sense an uncommon virtue (not me) but true
sorry for misspellings

reply to post by mattifikation


Totally agree. I said the same thing before reading your post although mine was not as well stated.