Schools can expel students that 'seem gay', appeals court rules

How the heck are they going to determine if a student is gay or a lesbian?? If a girl has her hair cut short, does that make her a lesbian? If a guy puts his arm around his mates shoulder, does that make him gay?

Maybe they will throw accused students off the gym roof.... if they fall and DIE, then they are pure and are allowed to attend the school, if they fly away and survive they have that evil Satan 'gayness' inside them!

What a crock.

They can expel people for having a mental defect now? Do they not allow mentally challenged people to attend as well?

I guess it's "ok" since it's a private school. If this were a public school they would have to expel all mentally challenged students as well.

Originally posted by salchanra
Would a christian be permitted to pray inside a mosque?

Would a gay man even be permitted into a mosque?

Aside from this being a private organization, we need to look at this issue in a larger context.

In every sect of society, those with like morals and values have someplace to go to congregate with those of similar interests.

This school has a set of core values, like them or not, these people think they are right in their beliefs. I am not one to judge the morality of others, and for a site that preaches deny ignorance, we have a good deal of people that think their way is the only way and the rest of the world should be like them. That isnt the way its supposed to work. Who are you to say I am wrong because I believe XYZ and you believe ABC?

This school obviously teaches against homosexuality. They pay for it, they can teach whatever they will.

The Masters golf club is restricted to male only members. Nothing against the ladies, but men created it that way, thats how it is.

Curves is a female only workout gym. Created that way, thats how it is.

Im not saying this school is right or wrong, Im not saying the Masters should allow women members, nor do I want to work out at Curves.

These organizations were created with the ideas and ideals of certain sects of people. Same as a mosque, the Elks Club, Boy Scouts, or any of a million organizations out there.

All of these organizations, clubs, schools what have you are different in some way. And that is their right. They are groups of people who banded together to explore their ideas and ideals and to promote them. Should we ever make the mistake of forcing every organization to be all inclusive and honor everyones interest, we have nothing. No more identity, no ability to see and learn from our differences.

People have different views and values. They should always have the opprutunity to organize with others with similar.

So, if I have a 'private club' and I decide that in this club every Friday night we get together and torture a bunch of puppies and kittens to death, it's all good because it's a 'private club'? NO! Because there are laws against animal cruelty!
Private clubs/ schools/ churches WHATEVER the case may be, they still have to abide by the governments laws, in this case, ANTI-DISCRIMINATION laws!!! Just because it's 'private' does not mean that they are above the law!

[edit on 28/1/2009 by just_julie]

By far the saddest and sickest thing I've heard all week.

And to think they preach about 'love'. What hypocrites

What if one 'seemed' gay but was only 'gay' once?, or just thought about 'gayness' at times but wasn't actually gay? I mean, let's say one didn't 'seem' to be gay but was rumored to be completely gay?

Are there private-school 'Seem-Gay Hall Monitors'? (contracted out to Blackwater, no doubt)

"I just witnessed an act of gayity being expressed from your person, young man, come with me". "But I was just laughing", "Seemed Gay to me..., come with me Mr. Falwell Jr."

So much for hate the sin, love the sinner lol. Christianity as we know it has become a joke. There is so much beauty and truth in it, yet it gets dragged through the mud from people that seem to have no idea what it is. Jesus said something like "People will know you are followers of me if you love thy neighbor as thyself". He also talks about not judging others but a lot of these modern day Christians have no idea that they are the ones who need help. They see sticks in everyone else's eye but can't see the logs in their own eye.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by ghaleon12]

That being the case I'm gonna throw anyone out of my place of business that "looks or seems" Lutheran.

A Perspective from a Socially Conservative Youth Pastor

I am a youth pastor. I have two bachelor degrees in ministry. I will be entering seminary very very soon.

Gay rights should not even be an issue.

1. Even if homosexuality is a sin, it doesn't mean the Christian community should focus on this as any worse than any other sin or struggle. I know pastors who preach against homosexuality and tell homosexuals that they are going to hell and then go home that very same day and look at pornography. It is terrible what the Christian community has done to the homosexual community, and it isn't what Christianity is supposed to be.

2. Think about the story of when the adulterous woman was brought by the Pharisees in front of Jesus. I mean this woman was literally still naked from being caught in the act. How did Jesus respond? He said, "let whoever is here without sin throw the first stone". When all the Pharisees had left and only Jesus and the woman were left he forgave her and simply told her, "sin no more". We must have the same perspective when it comes to the homosexual community.

3. Jesus spent lots of time with tax collectors, drunkards, and sinners of all kinds. He ate with them and loved them. This is also the same approach the Christian community should have towards all people. We are all people who have done terrible things in thought or in action. We are all in the same boat. We are all on an equal playing field. God loves all of us the same no matter what we've done and who we are.

4. If your perspective of homosexuality is that it is a sin then you must also believe a homosexual person can be forgiven. Many Christians struggle with sin all their lives. The addictive sins that come to mind are alcoholism, drug addictions, pornography, lust, and I could go on and on. People who become Christians will often continue to struggle in these areas for their entire life. There will always be the threat of someone who in the past struggled with alcoholism falling back into it again simply because of how addictive it is. A homosexual can have this same type of struggle throughout their life. (note: this pertains to the argument that homosexuals can change from being homosexuals to being straight)

This pointing out of homosexuality as some kind of abominable sin above all sins has got to stop. It sickens me to no end when I see this hypocrisy. If you are a Christian and you are taking this kind of stand against homosexuality then you are going against the teachings of Jesus. You are going against God's Word.

I tried to cover many different perspectives and the arguments from Christians that lie therein. I hope this sheds a bit of light onto the hypocrisy involved in pointing out homosexuality above other sins. I think it is very important to understand the issue of homosexuality in the Christian community before we become so militantly against it.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Bugman82]

It seems like even private schools would have an obligation to protect the well being of their students. Can you imagine the emotional pain it would cause a child to be kicked out because he seemed gay?

It doesn't sound very Christian to me. Of course it doesn't make sense to me anyway, all this exclusivity, that's why I'm a pagan.

Even though I don't see a big deal about being forbidden from going to a christian school, and I'd take it as a compliment and would be very flattered by the gesture, but I know that there are gays/lesbians that are devoted christians and strongly believe their ways, then this is where I think it is wrong on the schools part. I know many gays/lesbians, and contrary to popular belief most of them don't "act" gay, nor do they try to "make" anyone gay, and not all gays are athiests. Many of them follow the christian way, but do not want to be told they will burn for their lifestyle. What does what you do in bed, or who you sleep with have to do with your career, religious beliefs, etc. It's none of anybody's business, and these kinds of schools need to learn to respect that, as should everyone else. Someone posted that people pay lot of extra money to send their kids to these places, well the parents of the "seemlingly" gay kid will have to pay the same tuititon costs. I personally think these private religious school are a waste of money anyway and would rather not put a child through one of these places, but to each their own I guess.

Seperation of Church and State, as well as, Public and Private businesses. As a Christian school is not only the property of the Church, but, is also a Privately funded business which recieves no taxpayer dollar's from the Government, what's the hang up? To their beliefs, homosexuality is an abomination. Not just a Sin. An unforgivable one. It is grounds for ex- communication from the Church, and, therefore all Church business, even school. It is their Right. And Government and no one else has the Right to dictate how these families and their Organization's and Program's operate as to admissions. Not even the Court has a Right to say anything. If a health club or a Publically Funded place chooses to expel a smoker, like say a school, do you believe that that smoker has a Right to be a smoker and can feel free to choose to smoke wherever they please, even at Church and in School. If they are openly Gay in an openly Anti- Gay establishment, who's wrong? The Gay is.

I'm an Atheist and date Bi Sexual females. I've even been hit on by Gay men, and while I reject them as politely as I would a female I'm not interested in, I find it's flattering. I think I'd be offended if they didn't hit on me, I'd wonder why not, or, what's wrong with me. Fortuanately, I don't have that problem. I may even take one up on it someday. Maybe not. I can't predict the future. But, I don't care what anyone thinks. I'm not gay, so, for now, the answer is no.

But, if I were I'd still know I have no Right to inject my self into a closed minority or majority based club. Nor would I care to. I'd be content if they just left me alone and we let each other be. Attention seeker's and ambulance chaser's are everywhere, and it is so pathetic.

Be happy you are not strung up and shot. Hate Crimes are BS, but, like all laws are just words from dead plants and animals written on the leaves of dead trees miles from nowhere near the actual scene. So, why push people? They have no choice but to let people they can't stand do things they can't stand, and they are not about to be told they have to let their kids, much less themselves, be forced to associate with them.

Be glad they let you be if you are gay, or, Hate Crimes may be the least of your problems. Ask blacks and minorities like Jews and Muslims, people can be really nasty once you turn the recording devices off. And as they become conditioned to being monitored round the clock, they may not even wait that long. Why push such an ignorant agenda?

I have friends who are openly Gay and some are even Drag Queens. They all agree, without exception. They don't mind straight people in their clubs, many are family oriented. But, they have certain forums and venues which are gay only. And they don't want straights to invade them, either. Those Gays and Bi's hate Gays and Bi's who try to invade Straight clubs and systems. It opens the door for Straights to invade theirs. They don't want that and hate Gays who pave the way for it. So, it's not just Straights you ought to worry about.

What's more, there are other Public and Private means of education which are Gay tolerant. There were open Gay's and Bi's, Transvestite's, male and female, at the Catholic School and the Baptist, Mormon, Catholic, Episcopalean, etc. Churches that I, an open Atheist, am even now a member of. It is not your beliefs, but, how you practice them, and respect other's, which decide whether you stay or go. Most people don't mind Gays, they detest the over acting, over dressing "lifestyle" claim. Many dress like women would never dress on their worst day. It just goes to show, you can't give a person taste. It is actually the taste in make- up, clothing, and forced non natural physical movements which turn most people away.

If Gays would be Gay, but, not be tasteless and over dramatic, and say they are being natural when they are not, people would not be so put off. Call it being flambouyant, call, it a lifestyle, but, don't pretend it's not deliberate and, therefore, unnatural. Men and Women in Straight and Gay relationships have no problem being normal and natural. It is when you walk around in a constant parade of "One," that people are hateful, when they would not otherwise be.

Every Gay Basher, and the Gay Rollers( those who lure Gays off to the side and beat them for their cash) that I know, have liked and been civil to the Gays I have introduced them to, even telling them upon introduction that they were Gay so they were not fooled. Because they were normal people who just happened to be attracted to the same sex, and not insane people who would drive you nuts even if they were straight. It's all in your conduct and behavior. I'll bet my bottom dollar that this kid was an openly flamboyant Gay on a daily parade to outwardly show he was gay, even when he was in a uniform and no make up. I'll bet.

I'll bet this kid, walked, talked, and gestured in the most forced and deliberate ways he could. That is why he was singled out. Just guessing, but, probably right. Because, there are even openly Gay Preists, Bishops, and Cardinals the world over, and they are tolerated. Could Continual Deliberate Flamboyancy around people who have neither the time nor the energy to tolerate play acting in their very busy lives be the reason why Gays have so much trouble? Form your own Church and open your own schools, quit trying to invade other's. Or quit being so Dramatic. Calm down, be normal. Being Gay is normal, I'll grant you if none else will. Even in the story of Lot, the Angels were willing to go be a@#- f%&cked.
So, how big a sin is it really?

If Gays want to be accepted they'd have a better chance if they didn't push hate laws or their views on mainstream cultures. Be Gay, just don't brandish it like a sword to cut down those not like you, then, have the audacity to ask that they stop cutting them down for not being straight.

You may as well enforce equal rights in prison's where men and minorities trump white's and females. You don't want equality, just, selective equality when it suits you. You being used in a general sense. You know how many papers tree hugger's go through in their lawsuits, flyer's, and propoganda's.

And why don't animal activist's fight to save the ugly repulsive creature's. Be Gay if you want to be Gay, just don't be a drama Queen and expect men to listen. We barely listen females who do, as it is, anyways.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

I would agree with the "it's a private school therefore they can burn witch" argument if it was the child who paid for their education, and choose the school, and if they were a free born citizen who led an independent life that they were in full control of. Because then it does indeed follow “it’s a voluntary club-school therefore its members are volunteers; therefore should be free to volunteer to any codes of practice they like.”

But some people seem to forget that you are MADE to go to school
That whilst you are free to get expelled you are not free to do so without your parents beating you over the head with a shoe, make you eat bread and water in you’re room, and pray with the bible until candle light.
Children don’t live free and independent lives; but instead a life where decisions are made for you and their are grave penalties for defying those decisions-efforts made on “you’re” behalf.

So my argument it is wrong to oppress adolescents sexual orientation; because firstly this creates psychological mess-ups, possibly even rapists.
Secondly it’s actually quite a futile exercise
Thirdly because it’s wickedly cruel
And 4thly because adolescents don’t lead independent lives; therefore freedom of lifestyle does not apply.

30 years ago it was uncertain whether sexual discrimination would be made illegal.
So I hope within another 30 year’s; cruel school environment like this, will also be prohibited.

That's a sneaky way of being able to kick you out of school because they don't like you, using the way you look as an excuse.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
And the world becomes even more insane with each passing day.

How exactly does one "seem" to be gay?
You either are, or are not. There is no "seem" about it.

It's a modern day witch hunt perpetuated by a group of religious fanatics no better than those who blow themselves up and take others with them.

The main lesson to all here should be, don't enroll your child in any religious institution or religiously-led education. If you do, you risk them hating you with a passion from the moment they are old enough to understand what you did to them.

Well done California, you steal the civil rights of a large group of people successfully and this is what happens; bigotry and hatred with a convenient excuse.
You take one right away, and all others are suddenly at risk too.

Shame on them.

Well said.

reply to post by lordtyp0


Apparently you have never heard of the 'auto-pass' called the first amendment. You know from that silly document the constitution that guarantees US citizens the right to freely associate and practice religion.

Like I said earlier, the post-christian modernist fails to see the need for religious freedom and is therefore the poorer.

I guess this is what Jesus would have wanted?

I say here, here! I hope 10% of the students at least end up seeming gay. Less money for the bigoted school and hopefully they'll get a real education somewhere else.

Edit:

My bad, I thought it said "Catholic" private school.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by mattifikation]

My only comment is that I really do not think the government should be able to come into the churches and regulate what there doctrine can be. Free exercise of religious beliefs is key, even if they are unpopular, or even vulgar, to other people.
Let there be freedom and then let the marketplace of ideas decide, if enough people find this detestable then there would be no churches left, by clearly that is not the case.

Originally posted by RFBurns
Unfortunately there is a federal law prohibiting discrimination. However since it is a private school, they can basically declare what ever rules they want.

I dont see the problem with it. Its a private school.

If it were a public school, thats a whole different ball game.

Not only do I completely agree with you, I also completely support this decision. Not because I am anti-gay, because I am not. But because I am pro-rights. There are guarantees of religious freedom in the 1st Amendment and this is the correct decision by the courts, whether or not I agree with the principle behind it, it is consistent with the constitution and I am always in support of that.

Funny how it works: Conservatives want to PRIVATIZE all schools AND they want to be able to expel gays from said schools.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pick up on the agenda, does it? It's unequal and unfair treatment like this displayed by private schools which underscore the very reason privatizing public schools is both a dangerous and irresponsible path.

The Public School system is what keeps this country from crumbling into a religio-fascist-corporate nightmare.