Originally posted by Mynaeris
Can you explain how my whining is injurious to your health? Your smoking affects everybody in your environment not just you. Smokers always feel it's their rights that they are protecting. You're depriving me of my rights to be healthy.

If you live anywhere other than within a forest, you are breathing in airborne toxins. So if you want to breathe in air that isn't polluted by man (and I do too, and I smoke), give up your automobile and every manmade object that pollutes the environment with its production, and go live in the forest. Seriously. And then if, after you've completely reformed your life, decide to give back to the Earth instead of just taking from it, you will be entitled to that clean, forest air. And fear not! If, by some chance, you happen to catch a glimpse of someone sucking on a coffin nail in your forest domain, Smokey The Bear will take care of him, swiftly and harshly!

[edit on 1/28/2009 by pjslug]

Originally posted by Mynaeris
I think thats a good start - there are more if you would like me to continue.

I'm not entirely sure why you started in the first place, to be honest.

Has nothing to do with the video posted, to which BlesUTP was commenting on in regards to the fact she started smoking herself, and then continued to smoke after the diagnosis. She alone is to blame for her demise.

Who's fault is it that someone does what they choose to do, with their own body?

And to Formanator, I say Yes. Legalize all the vices that are out there. If someone see's the lifestyle of a junkie and finds it a great way to live, then they'll be using it regardless.

Id rather see THEIR money from taxing their product be put back into the system for them, than see MY tax money spent on incarcerating people.

Originally posted by foremanator
And I don't hold kids accountable for doing stupid things. Its a right of passage. Thats why they are not tried as adults in court. Its called being young and dumb.

So which is it?

Is it the tobacco companies specifically targeting children that is the reason why children start smoking, or is it a rite of passage that is the reason children start smoking?

Can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I think that it's time to make tobacco illegal.

Think how much it would improve the health care crisis here in the US.

Because making vices illegal is working out just great, so far !

The argument of increased cost in socialistic ideas does not fit well with american democracy.

We should make it illegal because these programs are more expensive for others? Don't get me wrong- I can see the logic here. But the ultimate point is this: Stay out of my business. If a smoker blows smoke in your face, punch him one. If their smoke is getting in your face by accident move or say something. If not, leave him and his cigarettes the hell alone. So long as this is somewhat the america it was before, let people do some things that maybe you wouldnt do yourself while realizing that how other people live their lives is none of your business.

How many hundreds of thousands of people die from cigarettes each year? Or alcohol?


Has there been a person yet who has been proven to have died directly from marijuana?


Just goes to show that the government's war on drugs wasn't created to protect the welfare of the people. If protecting the public's welfare is a legitimate excuse to control what drugs people can take into their bodies, then cigarettes would be illegal and marijuana wouldn't.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by username371]

I don't know of a non-smoker amongst my friends who is exposed to the amount of smoke that some in this thread claim they are exposed to.

My non-smoking friends live with non-smokers , there children are non-smokers, so there is no exposure at home or in the car.

Smokers cannot smoke inside of office buildings, shopping centres, restaurants, bars or any enclosed space. So there are already laws to protect non-smokers in the workplace and in eateries. No second hand smoke there.

Smoking is banned on trains and buses, in taxis, on airplanes.
All modes of transport that conveys the public.

So the only time a non-smoker would come in contact with second hand smoke is the occasional whiff from a passing smoker walking down the street or standing at a set of lights. Walking down the street or standing at a set of lights will expose you to more toxic chemicals from passing cars than the odd smoker does.

I believe that non-smokers over exaggerate the risk by miles.

How many non-smokers own SUVs that pump out toxins that others have to breathe in?
How many non-smokers have BBQs that pump out billowing smoke that is effecting your family and children and your neighbours?
How many non-smokers have a fireplace that they use every winter with billowing smoke flying out the chimney chocking everyone else and indoor fumes that can effect your kids?

I could go on and on....but I think you get the drift.

What are non-smokers going to do when Marijuana is legalised and someone lights up on the street and blows second hand smoke your way?
Oh don't worry, you'll be too stoned to care.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith

To those of you who are defending your "right" to smoke, do you realize that you are costing the rest of us in increased insurance costs, increased medical costs, and increased prices of goods and services not associated with smoking because of the extra time you have to take off because of smoking related illnesses?

Show us one shread of proof that us smokers are a direct result of YOUR increased insurance costs, increased medical costs, and proof that us smokers make the price of YOUR particular goods and services so expensive that you say are not associated with smoking. Also provide the proof that us smokers take "extra time off" because of "smoking related illnesses".

I have known non smokers who take time off because of a toothache or a stubbed toe and us smokers are right there still at it, and taking up the slack.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
Do you realize the pain you are going to put yourself and your loved ones through when you die from cancer, emphysema or end stage COPD. Not only will you be a burden to your loved ones, you will be a burden to society.

My great grandmother, who lived to be 114, smoked most of her life. Guess what...she didnt die of emphysema or end stage COPD or cancer. She died of old age.

Another example, a famous comedian, George Burns, who smoked cigars his entire life, lived to the age of 100 and died of...old age.

There is far more evidence of deaths caused by alergic reactions to all this chemical filled food and additives and medicines people graciously fill themselves up with. Do we see commercials plastered on TV about lawsuits over deaths due to cigarettes more than we see commercials about lawsuits over deaths due to some new drug that came out the year before?

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
If you wind up on a ventalator, and can't be weaned off, your spouse or one of your children may well have to make the decision to "pull the plug."

Show proof that those who end up on a breather is the result of smoking.
I bet your going to find more evidence that they use a breather for other reasons than because they smoked or hung around a smoking area.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
I lost three family members to lung cancer. My father was the first to go. He was 56. That was 30 years ago. I still miss him, and there are life lessons we learn from our fathers well into our 30's and 40's if we are lucky to have them around. I wasn't that lucky. The next one to go was his older brother. Chain smoker. Kool cigarettes. Then his sister, my favorite aunt, the one who was beautiful, sophisticated, always full of life, and yet never forgot her country ways.

I sympathize. Tragic to loose any loved ones. But some people are more sensitive to getting lung cancer than others, and that cause is not necessarily from smoking, however when you got someone who 'chain smokes', that very well could be a reason.

Unless you got direct proof that everone dies from cigarette smoke, your using it as an excuse to ease the burden of loss, when that is only giving you a false fasad of emotional pain relief. Your only kidding yourself.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
Those of you who keep talking about your right to smoke have no idea how many lives these 3 people touch. You have no idea how many people still, after all these years come up to me and say "I knew your dad(uncle, aunt)and then tell me some little story about them that lets me know how special they were to people. Do you have the right to rob your families and friends of the experience of having you around, healthy, and active?

If I were you, I would step away from the preaching podium before someone throws a pew bench at you. Dont EVER say people who smoke have no idea or do not feel emotion when loosing a loved one. Be thankful this is a forum and not a room becasue I would be the first one to get up out of my chair, and fold up my chair, and give it a good swing and toss it at you!

Its quite ironic that some would declare smokers having no emotion or feeling or heart. Your statement makes me quite angry and see this little emotecon...I inhale and exale at you with

Someday I may decide to quit...when "I" decide. Not you, not all you non-smoking wanna take my right away Nazi's. Yes thats right, Nazi's. Or commies or whatever, its all the same.

Go complain to congress and see if they will make your pipe dreams come true.

At the same time, dont forget to shout it out loud about beer and liquor, which cause more deaths due to DUI's than anything else.





Cheers!!!!

[edit on 28-1-2009 by RFBurns]

To any and all of you who suggest that someone hasn't killed THEMSELVES by smoking is simply crazy.

YES, the tobacco companies try and get you to buy their products, and sell to minors, and put the evil chemicals in their cigarettes.

But, to say it's not the person's fault for smoking the cigarettes and saying its all the big bad tobacco companies fault is simply inane.

YOU STUCK IT IN YOUR MOUTH

YOU LIT THE LIGHTER

YOU SUCKED THE SMOKE IN.

You're the one who killed yourself.
Now, are the tobacco companies accomplices?

OF COURSE they are.

And that should be your argument.

But to suggest that smoking is anything less then YOUR responsibility just goes to show how whacked out everyone's priorities are these days.

i wont bother to read all the posts here as this is too touchy a topic to subject myself to all the ridiculous points of views


the fact is, tobacco and cigarettes are deadly

for decades if not centuries tobacco was encouraged by everyone even doctors

it is only relatively recently that the negative effects have been so widely known, and by then, its already too late for those who have been addicted their entire life, many people dying in old age of this horrible disease

cancer is truly devastating beyond words

the fact that cigarettes and tobacco increase cancer risks as much as they do are plain and simple facts

there is no conspiracy on this issue anymore, it is widely held knowledge

it is society and the public views that continue to make tobacco use so dangerous

people are either ignorant to the fact there are dangers, some are ignorant to the complicated process of quitting, many young people start in the beliefs they will only smoke momentarily relative to their own life, yet end up dying with a cigarette in their hand 50 years later

the fact that anyone can say that the person brought upon themselves the pain of cancer and deserve nothing else disgusts me at the ignorance of humanity


it is blatantly shameful that we have spent the trillions of dollars on the drug war yet we still allow cigarettes yet prosecute pot heads...ive personally experienced the lifestyles of different people living with every type of drug addiction their is, i have seen none worse then the addiction of cigarettes except for meth and heroin (2 things that can be easily eradicated)

the fact we havent found a cure for cancer or at least better treatment is a true shame on humanity


my thoughts go out to all those suffering with this horrible disease

they also go out to all those ignorant and in-compassionate enough to not care for they are the ones who are truly worse off


edited just to clearify i myself have not used every drug i spoke of, yet i have known a diverse group of individuals many of whom fall into each of the separate categories of drugs, there are things i personally would never do or try, but that is my own personal belief that i dont force upon others

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Dramey]

As I stated before..it is our choice..just as it was your choice to poke up on heroin, and deal with those effects, and your choice to quit...as it is our choice to quit cigs if we want.

Thats the whole point..it is our choice, not anyone elses.

(lights up another)




Cheers!!!!

one last thing i must say

instead of spending the ridiculous amounts of money on lawsuits fighting tobacco and all other drugs

why not do the change that so many speak about??

decriminalize drugs and use the money spent to fight the war and eradicate them in this futile effort and instead use the money to "perfect" these drugs eliminating their negative effects

we can change these drugs with todays technology EASILY by using the completely absurd amount of money we are spending on a war we will NEVER win, unless we do what i recommend, end the war, think outside the box, truly change things


just by thinking outside of the box we can much cheaply "perfect" these things and create jobs and thriving economies easily while ridding the world of horrific pains

this is really the last thing


i just quickly read the old broken read reply

"its your choice"

ever heard about 2nd hand smoke affecting almost all of the people of the world?

it is not the choice of the person who doesnt smoke to get cancer from 2nd hand smoke

people need to stop preaching the same broken record and learn to think outside of their box of ciggs

Then why don't we ban alcohol for all the 2nd hand drunk driving accidents?



THE SAME REASON.

Leave the people the # alone.

IF they are causing 2nd smoke for OTHERS who DO NOT WANT IT, then the person who DOES not want it NEEDS TO SPEAK UP.

When i was 6, I remember DISTINCTLY telling my father (who smokes) to get away from me.

I was 6, i figured it out.

And my father listened, from here on out he has smoked outside.

And to those of you who suggest that not all people are like that.

Then that's your problem, not the cigarettes yourself.

I DON'T EVEN smoke.

It doesn't mean I don't fight for people to have the right to do it (even if it does kill you).

Originally posted by Dramey
one last thing i must say

instead of spending the ridiculous amounts of money on lawsuits fighting tobacco and all other drugs

why not do the change that so many speak about??

decriminalize drugs

we can change these drugs with todays technology EASILY by using the completely absurd amount of money we are spending on a war we will NEVER win

The reason why the so called drug war will never be won is because drug use is not just by the druggie bums on the streets. Its done by people in the professional arenas, white collar realm, blue collar realm, everywhere all across the board.

The demand for those drugs far exceeds anyone's belief that its just the drug addicts.

Once that is fully understood by the entire public, then the public will see that it makes no sense to be spending billions on an effort to thwart a massive demand.

Doesnt matter to me if drugs are legalized, I think they should. Control it and tax it just as the do with cigs and alcohol.

In the end, its all a matter of personal choice. Start to regulate my freedom to choose and I will come out fighting..as will millions of others who will fiercely defend their rights to choose as well.

We have already "stepped aside" and take our smoking outside, gave up our right to light up in bars, in resturants, among other things. There is a line in the sand that you simply cannot, and we will not..let you cross.



Cheers!!!!


(lights up another)

simply put just to play devils advocate its feasible to just require car makers to install the breathalyzer test on all cars that wont allow the car to start without a sober person activating it


parents are already putting cameras in the cars of the kids to watch their every move behind the wheel, why not go one step further and do that

like i said, think outside of the box, there are simple solutions to everything


you can argue the cost of installing this in all cars would be astronomical, but like all things over time and the more its used the prices go down

right now few people must use that technology, if its mandatory and all must use it, greater demand, more development will occur and prices will go down

just like it does in the computer industry always improving and growing

or even the emissions and miles per gallon requirement is steadily going up


just gotta jump out of the box and the answers are right there