It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?
The animals do what they have always done and nothing more.
Mankind is different, always striving to attain some higher state than His present one.
Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?
Why? Why? Why?
Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by John Matrix
I don't understand how someone can say their "old" spirit has died. The way I see it our spirits only grow and change forms, the "old" is still here, it is not dead, but it is not the exact same as it once was. This is just like say a mother dies and her child is wondering where its mom is, but it's mom is gone, she is not there any longer. But say the mother changed something about her, the child understands that it is still the same mother and doesn't say that it is a new mother. When you say rebirth of the spirit, this would mean every time we had an epiphany of some sort, our spirit would have to die and be reborn new, a completely different spirit. I do not understand how that can be.
Originally posted by Luciferdescending
HUH? This implies that anything is a deviation from the truth of christ. Are you serious? Why is Christ the default position for you?
P.S. Animals are not doing as they have always done. they were once single celled. They once could only swim. There was a time when they could not fly...etc. The times, they are a changin'.
Originally posted by John Matrix
I do not believe in the "from goo to you, by way of the zoo" theory of evolution. An infinite number of years of nature left to it's own workings can not produce life from non life matter.
No one observed creation or evolution, so neither can be proved or disproved. I weigh the evidence from both sides and make an informed decision. That is all any intelligent creature can do. Most people that believe in the theory of evolution do not believe in God, therefore their own prejudice against God is the fuel for their belief in the foolishness and ignorance of such a theory.
Originally posted by Luciferdescending
Well, thanks for clearing that up. I do not believe in the "man wrote a book about an imaginary friend, his son, and their pet ghost. They are all real and true because man wrote that book and many men have retranslated and changed it to fit what they like, so Jesus must be the answer to everything because thinking hurts and reading and being told what to do is easier" theory of anything so thanks for clearing that up.
Huh? You do realize how many people think believing in imaginary friends is foolishness and ignorance right? It is not nice to toss around such words because it is not what you believe. I am fairly certain that if you really read that book, you will see that you imaginary score keeping friend has an issue with pride. You should keep that in check, lest you end up spending eternity next to me.
Originally posted by John Matrix
One does not need to read the bible to learn about Jesus. There are plenty of historical accounts and evidences. Believing in the theory of evolution, without proof, while denying the historical evidence of Jesus in the next breath, is sucking and blowing at the same time. It's absurd!!
I take it you have a problem with one putting their faith and trust in the Divine characteristics of Humility, Meekenss, and Patience and Love for God and fellow man?
Yes!...serving God has to be in the equation, otherwise putting on Humility, Meekness and Patience becomes a counterfiet and self serving.
You may find me beside you in eternity! Then what?
Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by Luciferdescending
There are historiucal accounts of Jesus apart from the bible. They have been discussed many times on ATS. Do some research on the historicity of Jesus.
I have assumed nothing. You made your position clear. Your Avatar and words boldly portray your message.
You said and asked: "HUH? This implies that anything is a deviation from the truth of christ. Are you serious? Why is Christ the default position for you?"
Only someone who is anti-Christ would would make the statement you made and list the two questions as you did.[/quoute]
Uh huh. I am pretty anti-sant claus and anti easter bunny too. I give gifts and eat chocolate, I just do not believe in imaginary characters. I can do good deeds with or without your Jesus. Why can't you?
You asked: "Why can I not be meek, patient, and have humility without your god?"
Because you would be doing it for a false God.
That is the problem. You think we need a god to do these things. That is a pretty messed up thing to say for someone so meek and humble isn't it? But then again, I already pointed that out too and you are good at avoiding the things I said that you can not answer.
You must want me to be with you, otherwise you would not attack the path I choose. Don't frett, you will have plenty of company.
I never once attacked your path. I am attacking your assumption that your god is the only way anyone can be a good person. I am attacking your assumption that anyone who does not accept Jesus as a savior can not be a good person. Did you miss the thing about judging others?
Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by Luciferdescending
Actually, I like your avatar. You could use a bit more muscle size and definition, but with some modifications in your diet and training you could pump it up in a year or two.
Have a nice day Lucy.
Originally posted by Luciferdescending
So you respond to me asking you explain why you can judge and assume by mocking the physical definition of a very well built female picture?
I knew you did not have anything to back up all that nonsense and I should have known you were just another ATS faux-christian. I guess if you have no answers for the crazy things you espouse...then what can we do.
Originally posted by John Matrix
You miss the point. It has nothing to do with whether I can prove the OP. It cannot be proven nor can it be disproved.
Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by cancerian42
What I mean is that animals do what they seem to be programmed to do and never anything more. I've played some computer games and I started to see that, if you take any animal, they always act the same way, a lot like the Artificial Intelligence programing in some computer games.
OK, have a good laugh, I don't mind. If I can make you crack a smile, then I will take it as a good thing.
If it's a predator, they hunt, kill, eat, sleep, drink, that same way all the time. If a Cow, it does what cows always have done. Pick any animal, they do as they always have.
Surely the same can't be said for mankind who is obviously always looking for some higher state of being, and bettering for himself. Sure, some things in mankind's nature never change...such as his deceitfulness, even deceiving himself quite often etc.
Supercomputers have the potential to solve deeper questions, but fail to do so because the scientists that design them lack insight, speakers at the National Science Foundation supercomputer symposium have said.
Originally posted by John Matrix
But intelligent observation of people and how they interact and how they are prone to destruction, murder, cereal killings, suicide, rape, stealing, cheating, lying, falsehood, delusions, ignorance, willful ignorance, self exaltation's, destroying the environment, warmongering, etc. etc. etc. These all tell me that we are in a fallen state, need a redeemer, and have rejected the redeemer.
Originally posted by Luciferdescending
Originally posted by John Matrix
You miss the point. It has nothing to do with whether I can prove the OP. It cannot be proven nor can it be disproved.
Stop, shhhhhhhhhh. Read. I never asked you to prove the OP. I asked you to back up the things you were saying about me. I guess we can cross reading comprehension off the list as well.
Originally posted by John Matrix
I'm sorry, I did read it, but I am not going to allow you to force me to write an essay for you, because it would be a waste of time.
???
You miss the point. It has nothing to do with whether I can prove the OP.
By the way, you do look hot!! So please don't take my criticism too hard. You could do without the devil wings and pointed tail though.
Originally posted by Luciferdescending
Originally posted by John Matrix
But intelligent observation of people and how they interact and how they are prone to destruction, murder, cereal killings, suicide, rape, stealing, cheating, lying, falsehood, delusions, ignorance, willful ignorance, self exaltation's, destroying the environment, warmongering, etc. etc. etc. These all tell me that we are in a fallen state, need a redeemer, and have rejected the redeemer.
Not like 100 or 1000 or 2000 thousand years ago when there was no rape or murder right? Care to produce some stats on this?
Originally posted by Luciferdescending
I knew you were into hooves.