There is no such thing as a Palestinian people

Now what country does the Belfour declaration refer to? No mention of "Israel" here.

There is no such thing as Israeli people. They're European migrants from the other side of the world. People, who cover up the truth with lies.

The Balfour Declaration
Foreign Office

November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,

Arthur James Balfour

It's your article stating that.

We propose that the Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area and additional lineages from more-recent population movements.

1 It states that most Palestinians are neolithic inhabitants.
That is what the genes say.


2And people from arabian peninsula migrated there early, that is what history states.


There you go, that is history and genes for you.

Are you now saying they did not come from there?

It's your article stating that.

We propose that the Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area and additional lineages from more-recent population movements.

1 It states that most Palestinians are neolithic inhabitants.
That is what the genes say.


2And people from arabian peninsula migrated there early, that is what history states.


There you go, that is history and genes for you.

Are you now saying they did not come from there?
Genes don't lie ya know.


[edit on 11-1-2009 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Founding
Just because they shared a weak link during the stone age does not make up for a huge genetic and cultural shift of Arab genes and cultural/language.

What makes you so sure they only shared a "weak" link in the distant past? Were those genetic tests around then to prove your statement?

To rely on genetic samples of only the last generation or two is hardly any solid proof that they cannot be related.

In fact, that analysis would only confirm of the diversity of today, not of 100 years go or 1000 years ago and further back.



Cheers!!!!

reply to post by RFBurns


Thank you that is one of my points. The most recent genes are from an Arab influx. Here I have a history date that is common fact for when the Arab genes converted the people you see today as the so-called Palestinians.

Historical records describe tribal migrations from Arabia to the southern Levant in the Byzantine period, migrations that reached their climax with the Muslim conquest 633–640 a.d.; Patrich 1995).

The point that Pepsi conveniently tries to confuse is a a claim to the land. When we first argues he said the claim came around the time of Judea. But I clearly disproved that. So now he goes even further back to a STONE AGE claim. I am arguing that maybe some genes from the stone age exist in some of the so-called Palestinian people. But the Arab genes are dominate by genetics, history, language, and culture. Today's people of the west bank and Gaza have no claim to the land; they are identical to the people of Jordan,Syria, and Egypt.

The point that Pepsi conveniently tries to confuse is a a claim to the land.
When we first argues he said the claim came around the time of Judea. But I clearly disproved that.

In no way it does that.

So now he goes even further back to a STONE AGE claim. I am arguing that maybe some genes from the stone age exist in some of the so-called Palestinian people. But the Arab genes are dominate by genetics, history, language, and culture.

All it does is show where the original inhabitants were from.
If you look at my dna you will not be able to tell what languege I speak.Only where I'm from, that is done by comparison with other people near me.

1The geans show they are from the arabian peninsula.
2The history provides there were migrations from arabian peninsula there.
3Your article even state that they are neolithic pepeople.
4Arabs living in the arab peninsula have the same geans because they were the same people.

Anf finaly number 5 You do not know how to lose.

Today's people of the west bank and Gaza have no claim to the land; they are identical to the people of Jordan,Syria, and Egypt.

They are identical because they all migrated from the same area so what is your point?Some groups migrated in Syria, some in Egypt some in what is today Israel, and it was all done early.

Your article provides that.I'm sure your article would not call them Neolithic inhabitants if they migrated as modern day arabians.
History refrence provides that also and states the same.
Bolth sources state the same.

reply to post by pepsi78


Would you like to open a debate?

I'm not trying to win, I'm trying to show they belong there.
If you refuse the fact that today palestinians are Neolithic inhabitants as your article states then you are refusing facts from your own article.

Neolithic inhabitants=arabs

We propose that the Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area and additional lineages from more-recent population movements.

It's clear , black and white.It states the majority are just that.

I don't get it, why are you trying to rip off people? Is it not enough they are being masacred there?

reply to post by Founding


Well there is considerable recorded history going back to 1300 B.C. as noted at this site, Middle East Israel-Palestinian Conflict Timeline.

About 1/4 down the page, the timeline noted begins at 1300 B.C., there are links in some of the noted timeline entries that include maps. There is one map in there link that has a remarkable resemblance to today's layout of Israel and Palestine, around the time of Jesus.

Here is the link with greater detail of the very early timeline of both Israel and Palestine.

The historical record states that the land now known as Israel, has always been a land of many tribes that came in and made their claims, including a tribe led by Moses.

This one quote is interesting, taken from the page last linked.

Map of Palestine under the Caliphs - Christian Palestine fell first to the Persians, in 614. It was reconquered briefly in 629 by Heraclius. However, with the rise of Islam, the Middle East, and with it Palestine - Israel - Canaan - was conquered by Arabs. Jerusalem fell in 640. The Jews were willing allies of the Arabs, as they had been of the Persians. The Land was divided into a Southern Jund (district) of Filastin with a capital in Al-Lud (later in Ramleh), and a northern Jund of Al Urdunn with its capital in Tabariyeh (Tiberius).

Point here is that there were so many peoples comming and going in and out of the territory, that it is most plausible that early mixing of the tribes occured from the years 1300 B.C. to 1000 B.C. on up to the time of Jesus and byond that.

Its not byond reality that today's Israeli peoples and today's Palestine peoples are distant cousins and most likely, if it were possible to trace family lineage, to find many of them fighting each other right now, are fighting their own relatives, and it would not surprise me one bit that they too realize that..both the Israeli's and Palestinians.



Cheers!!!!

reply to post by pepsi78


Are you not getting it!!!! I will explain it barney style (for a dumb person).

We propose that the Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area and additional lineages from more-recent population movements.

Here are the additional lineages:

Historical records describe tribal migrations from Arabia to the southern Levant in the Byzantine period, migrations that reached their climax with the Muslim conquest 633–640 a.d.

The people that inhabited Israel during the stone age where not Arabs. I don't know how many times I have to keep re-posting that. You are just confusing the situation and making it almost impossible for anybody to seriously grasp the situation. How long do you want to keep this up?

The people that inhabited Israel during the stone age where not Arabs.

But they became arabs, and those that came after were already arabs.
Genes say so.

I don't know how many times I have to keep re-posting that. You are just confusing the situation and making it almost impossible for anybody to seriously grasp the situation. How long do you want to keep this up?

I'm not confusing anything.You are denying facts.

What you are denying is simple here it is.

1 Some people migrated there in early in history.
2 By genetic research it is concluded that"
Point A) Neolithic inhabitants from arabia peninsula that migrated there early are the same people as today palestinians.
Point B) People from the arabian peninsula are the Neolithic inhabitants.


Refrence in agreement with your article.

the Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area and additional lineages from more-recent population movements. The early lineages are part of the common chromosome pool shared with Jews. According to our working model, the more-recent migrations were mostly from the Arabian Peninsula, as is seen in the Arab-specific Eu 10 chromosomes that include the modal haplotypes observed in Palestinians and Bedouin... The study demonstrates that the Y chromosome pool of Jews is an integral part of the genetic landscape of the region and, in particular, that Jews exhibit a high degree of genetic affinity to populations living in the north of the Fertile Crescent.[92]

What it does explain.
1 It explains the Jewish people were inhabitants of that region.
2 It explains the Palestinians derive from Neolithic inhabitants.
3 It explains that recent migrations are from arabian peninsula.


What it does not explain.
1 It does not explain that Palestinians are not Neolithic inhabitants.
2 It does not state that palestinians are not part of the initial inhabited area.


Further more.
en.wikipedia.org...

The following countries either are now, or at one time have been, considered part of the peninsula:

Bahrain, an island nation off the east coast of the peninsula.
Iraq
Israel
Kuwait
Lebanon
Oman
Palestinian Territories
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Jordan
United Arab Emirates
Yemen, the sole republic on the peninsula.

Around 3500 BC, Semitic-speaking peoples of Arabian origin migrated into the valley of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in Mesopotamia, supplanted the Summerians, as the Akkadians (see Babylonia and Assyria). Some archeologists argue that another group of Semites left Arabia around 2500 BC during the Early Bronze Age Amorites and settled along the Levant mixing in with the local populations there. These Amorites eventually became the Arameans and Canaanites of later times Bernard Lewis mentions in his book The Arabs in History:

What you get is people migrating.
Further more Israel is part of the arabian peninsula or still is.

People migrated, mixed, and were there early, same for jews same for today palestinians.

Let it go, you can't win something that is no winable.

All your article states is that bolth groups are from the same area.

I had the source all along, I just wanted to see how far you would go.


[edit on 11-1-2009 by pepsi78]

reply to post by RFBurns


I've decided to ignore pepsi. I asked him to a debate. He backed out, it is pretty clear who the troll is.


Burns I am not fighting the shift of one empire over another. The point is that the populations of gaza and westbank are nothing more than Jordanian refugees. If you look to my very original post, I said that to understand the so-called Palestinan population of today you had to think of them as an extension of the nations boarding Israel. People view the so-called Palestinians as a separate cultural and national identity. This is not true and genetics and history prove that. They are identical in every single way and are Arabs.

Burns I am not fighting the shift of one empire over another. The point is that the populations of gaza and westbank are nothing more than Jordanian refugees

That is your opinion.

This is not true and genetics and history prove that.

It proves the contrary.

They are identical in every single way and are Arabs.

Yes from the arabian peninsula that is and was part of Israel.
, like your article states.They are from the arabian peninsula, from curent day Israel.



[edit on 11-1-2009 by pepsi78]

I honestly don't see how any of this matters.

Is it that big of a deal whether or not they descended from Jewish people. I for one don't think it matters. I'm sure there are much better things to argue about instead of arguing over who descended from who and things of that nature

reply to post by RFBurns


Here is what you might have missed.

The late Faisal Husseini, Arafat's Jerusalem representative, a man who was cultured, sophisticated and considered the most moderate of all the Palestinians, shortly before his death on May 31, 2001, expressed his true feelings in an interview with the popular Egyptian newspaper el Arav. Husseini said: "We must distinguish the strategies and long-term goals from the political-phased goals which we are compelled to accept due to international pressures." But the "ultimate goal is the liberation of all of historical Palestine." Explicitly he said: "Oslo has to be viewed as a Trojan Horse."

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said: The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

Originally posted by masonwatcher

Zionist belief is based on a myth. The occupiers of Palestine are mainly Eastern European Ashkenazis with little connection to the Western European Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

Survivors of the Holocaust get their compensation ripped off by the Eastern European Israelis.

Hey, incorrect one,

Remember Poland, first country the Nazis took? And Austria, like .. the 2nd? And all of those Baltic states of the former Soviet Republic? All of these had their Ashkenazi Jewish populations deported. Infact, more Eastern European Jewry died in the Holocaust than Western! So what are YOU talkin' about?

[edit on 1/11/2009 by runetang]

reply to post by mazzroth


i have no sympathy what so ever for gazza people. they voted for hamas, so hamas could luanch rockets at israel, all the time knowing israel has huge amounts of much bigger weapons. now gazza has the full attention of israel why are they complaining ??. they asked for it !!!.
as for palistine existing or not there are now a buch of misinformed poeple that see them selves as palestinian, so i see todays problem as theres, they want peace then stop being violent towards israel, they refuse to make peace then live with israel bombing them often.
how much of this conflict has its roots in islam ?

The OP has quoted a piece which refers to the fact that there is no Palestine today - there is no Palestine as it has been taken over by Israel - thats his point -

Further there is a Palestine - sorry - go buy an atlas. Is the saddest part of Zionism that has ever been.

There was a British protectorate from the early 20thC and before that PALESTINE - the Zioinists, the UN, the British and even the Nazis all referred to Palestine as the area in which the jewish state was to be formed.

QED.

reply to post by runetang

Hey, incorrect one,

Remember Poland, first country the Nazis took? And Austria, like .. the 2nd? And all of those Baltic states of the former Soviet Republic? All of these had their Ashkenazi Jewish populations deported. Infact, more Eastern European Jewry died in the Holocaust than Western! So what are YOU talkin' about? [edit on 1/11/2009 by runetang]

Hey, incorrect nothing,

Those countries are Eastern European. Even Austria is in the east but is considered to be the east most central European country.

Poland and Baltic state are right next to Russia. Where do you suppose is Eastern Europe?