There is no such thing as a Palestinian people

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posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by Founding
 


You trully are ignorant.
There are people coming forward , people with knowlege of history, historians and scholars that say that the palestinians are part of the heritage of ancient civilisations that lived in what today is Israel.


[edit on 10-1-2009 by pepsi78]




posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Ignorant is you still not backing down in face of GENETIC evidence. I am sorry but what more can I say to you. The facts speak for themselves. The people currently living in the westbank and gaza are Arabs politically and genetically. Would you like me to re-post the GENETIC EVIDENCE for you again? And I do not appreciate your ad hominem attacks they are pathetic and hypocritical.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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You refuse facts and don't understand who arabs are or better put who arabs were.
www.frontpagemag.com...



People in the Arabic world have forgotten who they are. The people of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and even some "Palestinians," are not Arabs at all. Instead, they are descendents of very ancient peoples, with different cultural and ethnic origins.
Militant Arabs invaded these lands in the 7th century A.D. and forced "Arabic" culture on their ancestors. Mohammad’s new religion of Islam sought world dominion through coerced unity, crushing cultural diversity. But this doesn’t change the original history of the region and its inhabitants’ true, non-Arab ethnic identity.




[edit on 10-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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The people that the Palestinians, and Arabs, descended from are the same people that the Israelis descended from. Those people lived in the area being discussed today.


[edit on 1/10/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13
The people that the Palestinians, and Arabs, descended from are the same people that the Israelis descended from. Those people lived in the area being discussed today.


[edit on 1/10/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Yes they are the same people, they just separated and have different customs, religion and so on.Same thing same deal, Israelies are just another form of arabic heritage, their languege , writings resemble arabic.
It's just some are too ignorant.



[edit on 10-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


You sure do love logical fallacys. What your doing right now is called strawman: building up a false argument then disproving it. As the genetic evidence states the people living in the west bank and gaza are related to the peoples south of the fertile crescent. Now politically those people are called Arabs. I do not care whatever you culturally call them. But they are known in modern day terms as Arabs. Anything else?



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13
The people that the Palestinians, and Arabs, descended from are the same people that the Israelis descended from. Those people lived in the area being discussed today.


[edit on 1/10/2009 by ravenshadow13]


Exactly. They are ancesetrial 'cousins', blood realatives that have fought each other for over 2000+ years. A very long, and very old family feud that should have ended 1999+ years ago.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


This is what WAS commonly thought...in light of new genetic evidence it is clear that the people living in the west bank and gaza are closer to Arabs then to Jews.


In conclusion, the present study shows that the Middle Eastern populations we analyzed are closely related and that their Y chromosome pool is distinct from that of Europeans. Genetic dating performed in the present study, together with age estimates reported elsewhere (reviewed by Bosch et al. 1999), suggests that the major haplogroups observed in our sample are much older than the populations in which they are found. Thus, the common genetic Middle Eastern background predates the ethnogenesis in the region. The study demonstrates that the Y chromosome pool of Jews is an integral part of the genetic landscape of the region and, in particular, that Jews exhibit a high degree of genetic affinity to populations living in the north of the Fertile Crescent.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by Founding
 


Modern day arabs are tribes or ancient population that lived in that area, jews the same, jews are not native to that area, no one is so get that in your head.Philistines and other groups migrated there, some did not.
There is a mix in general of the population living there, jews and modern day palestinians.


Please provide the link to your source, you posts articles without links?


[edit on 10-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:47 PM
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Isn't the only reason Palestine got its name was because the Romans changed it to Palestine from Judea to embarrass the Jews?



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Under that false assumption than it doesn't matter who migrates to the land. Hell a bunch of Eskimos could set up camp


You are very naive and uneducated in your assumptions. There are two claims to the land, one from the Jews the other from so-called Palestinians. If you had read my original post I said to view the so-called Palestinians as an extension of Israel's Arab neighbors. Meaning the people living in the westbank and gaza could just as easily go back to the neighboring Arab countries. Because as it stands they have no historical, political, or religious claim to the land. They are the invaders and occupiers and the truth be it genetic, historical, and religious says so. Please come back when you have some factual evidence.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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This whole atrocity is another prime example of the inability for humans to grow up and live together as one. Sadly, we will always be sneetches counting stars.

This will continue to be an issue as long as populations increase: one people or another will decide who basically had dibbs on the land first and to hell (literally) will anyone else.

Selfish disgusting lots we all are really.


I try to remain hopeful that our leaders will one day lead us to adulthood of understanding we all need to take care of eachother and our planet together or it just will not work. However, sickly embarrassing moments in "humanity" like this takes me back a few steps.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Jews lived in that area thousands of years ago. The temples were in Israel. Where do you think Israel is located near? They resided in all that land, before there were maps of the area with divided countries and things.

Where do you think Jews came from? Russia?

Modern day Palestinians have just as much right to live there as modern day Jews. For a long time, Palestinians did NOT live in that area.

jam- Good call, and on target.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:03 PM
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Here is the fertile crescent.
en.wikipedia.org...


The Fertile Crescent is a region in the Near East, incorporating the Levant and Mesopotamia, and often extended to Egypt. Mesopotamia is considered the Cradle of civilization and saw the development of the earliest human civilizations and is the birthplace of writing and the wheel.

It's a large area and does not refer to a specific region.
Your article "THAT HAS NO LINK" provides zero evidence that they were in a specific area.All that is does is shows that the modern day jews were around that area just like modern arabs were.

How about that link?
Are you afraid that there is something in that article that would ruin it for you?Or are you a troll? please provide a link.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Another strawman thank god I reply quickly or people might actually believe you and your pathetic trolling. I have posted the link to that article twice already and I will again because it seems you have issues with something that is clearly obvious.

(here I have it bookmarked)

www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...

n conclusion, the present study shows that the Middle Eastern populations we analyzed are closely related and that their Y chromosome pool is distinct from that of Europeans. Genetic dating performed in the present study, together with age estimates reported elsewhere (reviewed by Bosch et al. 1999), suggests that the major haplogroups observed in our sample are much older than the populations in which they are found. Thus, the common genetic Middle Eastern background predates the ethnogenesis in the region. The study demonstrates that the Y chromosome pool of Jews is an integral part of the genetic landscape of the region and, in particular, that Jews exhibit a high degree of genetic affinity to populations living in the NORTH of the Fertile Crescent.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by pepsi78
 


Jews lived in that area thousands of years ago. The temples were in Israel. Where do you think Israel is located near? They resided in all that land, before there were maps of the area with divided countries and things.

Where do you think Jews came from? Russia?

Modern day Palestinians have just as much right to live there as modern day Jews. For a long time, Palestinians did NOT live in that area.

jam- Good call, and on target.

I'm not contesting that, what I'm arguing for is the fact that the arabs that are now there were also there in another form.

en.wikipedia.org...


Canaanite Period (Bronze Age) 3300–1200 BCE
The use of the term Canaanite can be confusing. Archaeologists use it to refer to a long period of time (the entire Bronze Age) and a wide geographical region (ranging from modern Israel to the entire Levant). Thus all of the people in this time and place can be called Canaanites.Philistia,The Philistines(known today as Palestinians) were people who lived in Canaan along the Mediterranean coast at the time the Israelites sought to occupy the land. They were centered in five cities called the Philistine Pentapolis: Ashkelon Ashdod Ekron Gath and Gaza ... and their presence is mentioned in the Bible and Ancient Egyptian texts.[1]




en.wikipedia.org...



Thus all of the people in this time and place can be called Canaanites.Philistia,The Philistines(known today as Palestinians) were people who lived in Canaan along the Mediterranean coast




www.newsflavor.com...


The Palestinians are the modern day descendants of two ancient civilizations - the Canaanites and the Philistines. According to early history and the Bible, the present day land was called the Land of Canaan and the Canaanites ruled the area. Their society was fragmented with a city-state-like structure where each area or city had it own king with political and religious duties. The Canaanites came to power at around 3,000 BCE but their kingdom systematically fell to invasion from ancient Israelis freed from their bondage in Egypt.





en.wikipedia.org...

American historian Bernard Lewis writes:


Palestinians, like most other Arabic-speakers today commonly called Arabs, are said to combine ancestries from those who have come to settle their respective regions throughout history and the pre-existing ancient inhabitants; a matter on which genetic evidence described below has begun to shed some light.[63]


en.wikipedia.org...


"Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine..."[64]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Ravan please refer to the genetic study I posted. It clearly shows that the people living in Gaza and the Westbank have only a small connection to the land of Israel.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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You are twisting articles in your own way.


n conclusion, the present study shows that the Middle Eastern populations we analyzed are closely related and that their Y chromosome pool is distinct from that of Europeans. Genetic dating performed in the present study, together with age estimates reported elsewhere (reviewed by Bosch et al. 1999

Well I got a newer study , how abot that.(My way of being sarcastic)
It's not about the study, or the year, it's about the fact that you are twisting articles around.


en.wikipedia.org...




DNA and genetic studies


Palestinian coffee house in Jerusalem, c. 1858
Palestinian children in NazarethResults of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim in 2000 matched historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[70][71] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", albeit religiously Christianized and later largely Islamized, then both ultimately becoming culturally Arabized.[72] Referring to those of the Muslim faith more specifically, it reaffirmed that Palestinian "Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan." Geneticist Michael Hammer praised "the study for 'focusing in detail on the Jewish and Palestinian populations.'" [73] The study proposes that:

...More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years...found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.[74]

While both the Palestinians and the world's distinct Jewish populations have mixed with invading and host populations respectively, Oppenheim's team found "that Jews have mixed more with other populations, which makes sense because they were more likely to leave the Levant.".[75]

There you go, the full explenation bud.

Making this without a doubt the modern day palestinians land lords of the ground, just like the jews are.



[edit on 10-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 


Looks like I'll have to re-quote myself. I will gladly keep on disproving you because frankly now that the truth is out it is soooo easy.


That's where you and I were wrong to be so optimistic. The genetic study you quote takes the genetic similarities when comparing Jews and Palestinian Arabs to the Welsh So you can see why they were at first thought to be closely related. In fact as it stands Jews are from the north of the fertile crescent, modern day Israel, while the Palestinian Arabs are to the south. Meaning Palestinians are closer to the Arab nations bordering Israel than to Israel itself.


That is the older study which was clearly disproved. It used the Welsh as a third party to compare both Jews and Palestinian Arabs.

Everyone who is just joining us it has been officially proven that the people living in the westbank and gaza are not from the land but Arabs.

Link: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...


Pepsi I am getting tired of your BS. If you are not a troll you will contact a mod and schedule a debate between ourselves so we can put this topic to bed.



posted on Jan, 10 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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No group is going anywhere.
The idea that Israelis will pack up for the U.S or that Palestinians will move into Jordan Egypt etc is ridiculous.
They are living in each others shadows and will have to come to a settlement eventually.





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