There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, page 2

reply to post by masonwatcher

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I was adding information to the thread. Doesn't mean I believe it. Doesn't mean these people deserve to die, but it includes some information that adds to the thread.

If you want to go talk about Zionism, please define it first in the thread that I made, since I think you're tossing it around a little loosely.

I don't care how this turns out, unlike some.

reply to post by ravenshadow13

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I have a little trouble understanding you too, can you please define the words you use like 'thread' and 'tossing'.

If we can't understand the words we use with each other, how can we begin to have a proper discourse without stagnating things with semantics.

The first word we need to establish a meaning for is 'existing' as in do Palestinians exist or is it a figment of our imagination. Once we agree what or who is dying in Gaza, we can move on to the next word.

reply to post by Founding

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This has already been debunked.
Acording to DNA and genetic testing palestinians living there today are the ones the lived there long ago before any jew was there.
Acording to well known historians that seems to be the case also.

You happen to miss out on the name and why the name is, to history and to the scientific research done over time.

reply to post by pepsi78

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You don't remember I posted in your so-called debunked thread. And the genetic evidence clearly states not. en.wikipedia.org...(Y-DNA) Palestinians share a closer bond with the local Arabs then they do with the Jews. Obviously not debunked.

reply to post by Wallachian

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First, because Gaza < > Amman = 150 km.

We're not speaking of the half nor the third of the whole arabian world here, but rather of something like O.5 % of what the late Ottoman Empire ever was... wherein nothing like "Palestine" never was spoken about.

Secondly because Al Husseini was the name of the so called Mufti of Jerusalem, which during WW2 a closed ALLIE to a certain Adolf Hitler was.

Third because Jordan Kingdom, while created as a consequence of WW2, is a HUGE country where all Palestinian could live perfectly well.

Fourth, 'cause letting a few millions of persons being sacrified in the name of the Husseini* dynasty's megalomania is just an endorsement of a/ the Martyr (spiritual - see "Palestinian" TV - as well as physical) b/ the hole ABSURD anti-zionism stuff and its very NAZI ROOTS.

Israël WAS CREATED BECAUSE OF THE SHOAH AS THE VERY RESULT OF 2000 yrs of euro-russian ANTISEMITISM (see Pogroms and Catholic propaganda) - period.

Israël just wants to be a peaceful Nation, whose goal is to develop a dynamic peace with its neighbours. Tis country is a way to propose these arab countries a model of true democracy (check it out if any doubt), and to initiate the trends and trades that would allow the whole region to fully collaborate to a peaceful development from Cairo to Baghdad, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan K., even Iran with some good will from both parts.

If peace was in the M-E, kilometers of desert could become a garden. Those morons of Husseini's just prefer billions $ hidden in Swiss banks and some kalachnikov for their so-called people.

The OP nails it on : Palestinians are Jordanians, and all the OLP stuff is just propaganda. A bloody one.

Doesn't that just mean that Palestinians are Arabs? Isn't that the point, why not call them native Arabs? Of course they would be in the area before Jews were, because the state of Israel wasn't founded until recently, and the last time they were there was thousands of years ago, when the Arabs were still there, too. The same Y-DNA that came from the Palestinians and was linked to a specific time period in the area was also found in many Jews.

The earlier study, led by Dr. Michael Hammer of University of Arizona, showed from an analysis of the male, or Y chromosome, that Jewish men from seven communities were related to one another and to present-day Palestinian and Syrian populations, but not to the men of their host communities.

The finding suggested that Jewish men who founded the communities traced their lineage back to the ancestral Mideastern population of 4,000 years ago from which Arabs, Jews and other people are descended. It pointed to the genetic unity of widespread Jewish populations and took issue with ideas that most Jewish communities were relatively recent converts like the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that embraced Judaism.

www.humanitas-international.org... imes.htm

It's like how dogs and whales had a common ancestor. The DNA everyone is talking about would link to that common ancestor, nothing more.

[edit on 1/10/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by masonwatcher

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LOL, im happy this guy is selling books but that doesnt mean he is right. He is wrong...

reply to post by Founding

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Masonwatcher is not off topic at all, to quote from the posted article:

"It is not taught in Israeli schools but most of the early Zionist leaders, including David Ben Gurion [Israel's first prime minister], believed that the Palestinians were the descendants of the area's original Jews. They believed the Jews had later converted to Islam."

This puts a very interesting new twist on the whole story.

reply to post by Netzar

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We're not speaking of the half nor the third of the whole arabian world here, but rather of something like O.5 % of what the late Ottoman Empire ever was... wherein nothing like "Palestine" never was spoken about.

Titre du document / Document title The Scythian invasion of Palestine Auteur(s) / Author(s) MEDVEDSKAYA I. N. ; Résumé / Abstract Herodotus' account of the Scythian invasion of Palestine echoes three events of the 7th c. BC. This is, in the first place, some threat from the North to the inhabitants of Syria and Palestine, mentioned in the earlier prophecies of Jermiah (620ies BC). The data of cuneiform sources and the analysis of geopolitical situation in this region make it possible to assume that under the northern threat the prophet meant the threat of Cimmerian intrusion. In 670-640ies the Cimmerians were active at the western borders of the Assyrian power.

cat.inist.fr...

And masonwatcher throws a solaplex move.

Zionists always need to erase the truth to make their position palatable.

Interestingly enough, the only accepted physical evidence of Solomon's Temple is a small fragment of pottery about 5cm long owned by a chap called Shlomo Moussaieff in London who says that it was from an antiquities market in Jerusalem.

Proof Of King Solomon's Temple? -- Pottery Fragment May Hold Oldest Mention Outside Bible By David Briggs AP NEW YORK - A recently discovered piece of pottery, recording a donation to the "House of Yahweh," may contain the oldest mention outside the Bible of King Solomon's Temple. The 3 1/2-by-4-inch artifact is nearly 3,000 years old, dating to a time when kings sent messages inscribed on pottery. It is unclear where it was discovered and how it made its way into the antiquities market and later to London collector Shlomo Moussaieff. But extensive testing has convinced several scholars of its authenticity. "This doesn't prove the Bible, but it does vividly provide a context and a reality to the world of the Bible," said Hershel Shanks, editor of the Biblical Archaeology Review, which reported on the find in its November-December issue. "It just provides a reality that is somewhat stunning in its way." Solomon's Temple was generally believed to have been built sometime in the 10th century B.C. It lasted for four centuries until it was destroyed by Babylonian soldiers. The Bible frequently refers to the temple by the Hebrew term for "the house of the Lord." But that term has been found complete in only one inscription other than the Bible: a faded shard of sixth-century B.C. pottery from Arad, an ancient town now in modern-day Israel, Shanks said.

community.seattletimes.nwsource.com...

On top of this immigrants from Eastern Europe make claims to a continues connection to the ancient Israelites. What if the Palestinians are their direct descendants, will they return to Krakow?

Originally posted by Founding
reply to post by pepsi78

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You don't remember I posted in your so-called debunked thread. And the genetic evidence clearly states not. en.wikipedia.org...(Y-DNA) Palestinians share a closer bond with the local Arabs then they do with the Jews. Obviously not debunked.

You are lucky I can't quote you from another thread where you state that Jews and local Palestinians are the same water.Since it's against the rules here on ATS I won't.

Where you state that both jews and arabs do have a genetic link to ancient isreal.Instead you provide a link without explaining anything.
As hard as it is to swalow it, Palestinians belong there.

The issue here is not if Jews were not there in case you did not notice, the issue is equal share of the land.

You provide I explain.
From the source you provided in our last beloved thread where you called me pathetic.

There you go that is genetics for you.

en.wikipedia.org...

Mixed ancestry
Palestinians, like most other Arabic-speakers today commonly called Arabs, are said to combine ancestries from those who have come to settle their respective regions throughout history and the pre-existing ancient inhabitants; a matter on which genetic evidence described below has begun to shed some light.[63]

American historian Bernard Lewis writes:

"Clearly, in Palestine as elsewhere in the Middle East, the modern inhabitants include among their ancestors those who lived in the country in antiquity. Equally obviously, the demographic mix was greatly modified over the centuries by migration, deportation, immigration, and settlement. This was particularly true in Palestine..."[64]

(Y-DNA) Palestinians share a closer bond with the local Arabs then they do with the Jews.

Y-DNA needs half of the land because it was always there.

For you not to miss.

Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, explains:

"Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Jebusites, Canaanites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabateans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and European crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and Mongols, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."[65]

[edit on 10-1-2009 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Netzar
reply to post by Wallachian

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Secondly because Al Husseini was the name of the so called Mufti of Jerusalem, which during WW2 a closed ALLIE to a certain Adolf Hitler was.

(...)

Fourth, 'cause letting a few millions of persons being sacrified in the name of the Husseini* dynasty's megalomania is just an endorsement of a/ the Martyr (spiritual - see "Palestinian" TV - as well as physical) b/ the hole ABSURD anti-zionism stuff and its very NAZI ROOTS.

Some of the Husseini family :

Amin al Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hitler's allié.



Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini, aka Yasser ARAFAT founding father of Fatah and PLO

Leïla Shahid, P.A. spokewoman


Funny or not, "Shahid" means Martyr.

Jews have the same Y-DNA that Palestinians do. So people with Y-DNA should get all the land. Back to square one.

www.cjp.org...

The Jewish families' origins are in Galicia, Podolia, Crimea, Belarus, Lithuania and Latvia -- the Pale of Settlement; five are Levites. In Puerto Rico, one recently learned of possible Jewish ancestry; those from Germany and Hungary suspected it, but do not consider themselves Jewish. Today, the families live mostly in the United States and United Kingdom.

The families share rare Y-DNA anomalies as well as the 37 "markers," making a common ancestor a virtual certainty, company founder Bennett Greenspan says.

Huebscher "has applied the genetic genealogy breakthrough in exactly the way I dreamed. He broadened his approach, cast a wide net and found a tight group of genetic cousins," Greenspan says.

Y-DNA, carried only by males, doesn't change except for minor mutations. This Y-DNA is transmitted by father to son, for thousands of years.

If you have a problem with this being from a Jewish site, let me know and I'll find you another source proving that Jews have Y-DNA from the same area and time period, too.

reply to post by ravenshadow13

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Meaning if they can't live in peace they should divide it.

They can't get along, bolth sides have the right there, the only solution is to divide the area.



[edit on 10-1-2009 by pepsi78]

reply to post by jatsc

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I TOTALLY SAID THAT!!!
The other day I told my mom "let's just make it a world heritage site or a desert preserve or something, where no one group of people can "own" the land"

reply to post by ravenshadow13

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Y-dna is not an apt description. You mean mitochondrial dna?

reply to post by pepsi78

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That's where you and I were wrong to be so optimistic. The genetic study you quote takes the genetic similarities when comparing Jews and Palestinian Arabs to the Welsh So you can see why they were at first thought to be closely related. In fact as it stands Jews are from the north of the fertile crescent, modern day Israel, while the Palestinian Arabs are to the south. Meaning Palestinians are closer to the Arab nations bordering Israel than to Israel itself.

However, Nebel et al. (2001) report that Jews were found to be more closely related to north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks,Iraqis and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors.[89][90] While the Arabs were found to be related to Arabian Peninsula.[91]The study proposes that ...the Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area and additional lineages from more-recent population movements. The early lineages are part of the common chromosome pool shared with Jews. According to our working model, the more-recent migrations were mostly from the Arabian Peninsula, as is seen in the Arab-specific Eu 10 chromosomes that include the modal haplotypes observed in Palestinians and Bedouin... The study demonstrates that the Y chromosome pool of Jews is an integral part of the genetic landscape of the region and, in particular, that Jews exhibit a high degree of genetic affinity to populations living in the north of the Fertile Crescent.[92]

www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...

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