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There is no such thing as a Palestinian people

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posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
My many posts on this subject goes along with the OPs post in if the "Palestinian people" had legal rights to claim Israel as their home land they could also claim just about any of the countries around Israel too since they were all created the same way.

Israel is the size of Jersey, but this just happens to be the place the "Palestinian people" say is their home when their real home is 1/2 the Middle East already.

They may all be the same but not identical, each group shares a bond but they also are apart from other.It's in the first chapter of this thread, go ahead and look at it.Each group mixed with another group from another tirbe depending on the area of the arabian peninsula.
There is a difference betwen palestinians, syrians, jordanians and so on.
As for palestinians they are a mix of the area , mixed with the local inhabitants that lived on the coast.




posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 


The end or the Turkish empire was more of an offshoot result of WW I. The Middle East was not that important at that time, and their oil resources were not coveted. The world at that time did not know how much world demand for oil would grow.

www.country-studies.com...


Abd al Aziz ibn Abd ar Rahman Al Saud, the first king of Saudi Arabia, had not gained control of the western part of the country when he granted the first oil concession in 1923. A British investment group, the Eastern and General Syndicate, was the recipient. The syndicate gambled on the possibility that it could sell the concession, but British petroleum companies showed no interest. The concession lapsed and was declared void in 1928.


Middle Eastern oil did not become that important until the late fifties, and even then there was great optimism that massive oil reserves around the world were still to be discovered.

In addition, the politics of the Middle East have always been a huge drag on business. Once Middle Eastern oil is gone, the world will be better off.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
There is a difference betwen palestinians, syrians, jordanians and so on.


Sure, if you believe in "magick".....the difference is only in semantics and modern borders. I don't know how anyone could think of any real differences after looking at a bit of history.

For a while, the region looks like this.....


Then for some time like this....


Then, yet again a change....


Still yet, another change....


Until finally we have what we see today as a result of WWII. So, just who exactly has any historical claim to what?

Incidentally, the UN didn't create Israel.....they created a 'partition' with the intent of providing land for both Arab and Jewish inhabitants. The Jewish people declared independence, fought for, and established the State of Israel.

Images from NPR



[edit on 11-1-2009 by MrPenny]



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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How can there be no "Palestinian" if people identifies themselves as "Palestinians"?

This is just like the Taiwanese who says "We are the real Chinese." People just go "wth" are you talking about.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 


The end or the Turkish empire was more of an offshoot result of WW I. The Middle East was not that important at that time, and their oil resources were not coveted. The world at that time did not know how much world demand for oil would grow.

www.country-studies.com...


Abd al Aziz ibn Abd ar Rahman Al Saud, the first king of Saudi Arabia, had not gained control of the western part of the country when he granted the first oil concession in 1923. A British investment group, the Eastern and General Syndicate, was the recipient. The syndicate gambled on the possibility that it could sell the concession, but British petroleum companies showed no interest. The concession lapsed and was declared void in 1928.


Middle Eastern oil did not become that important until the late fifties, and even then there was great optimism that massive oil reserves around the world were still to be discovered.

In addition, the politics of the Middle East have always been a huge drag on business. Once Middle Eastern oil is gone, the world will be better off.


I have said this in numerous threads here so I will not bother typing it in again. Believe in the tooth fairy if you like but the cause of WW1 was that both the Royal Navy and the German Navy switched from COAL to OIL. That oil was discovered in Iran and Mesopotamia (now Iraq). The Germans intended on building a rail line and bought the mineral rights. etc...



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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Aho brothers and sisters....all my relations...

we can argue all day about who is who and what is what. But at the end of the day all of this is irrelevant. We all circle around the same sun on the same rock and have the ability to get along with one another.

Suffering is no stranger to anybody and you cannot measure suffering.

Love Jews and Palestinians alike and promote a mindset of peace and acceptance rather than the frame of division and scrutiny of differences...

we need to unify and come together without being forced to do it. We don't need no stinkin baby sitter or nanny to come down(be it jesus, ufos, NWO, Obama) and wipe our asses. Its time to recognize that independence and individuality are the tools to uplifting ourselves from the quagmire that we now find ourselves in.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by MrPenny
 


The European Jews that migrated to Palestine and over ran it created Israel from a book of fables.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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Benny Morris Professor of History at the Ben Gurion University of the Negrev in Be`er Sheva, Israel , being interviewed by Ari Shavit.




That was the situation. That is what Zionism faced. A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population. It was necessary to cleanse the hinterland and cleanse the border areas and cleanse the main roads. It was necessary to cleanse the villages from which our convoys and our settlements were fired on.



Ari Shavit in response ; "The term “to cleanse” is terrible".

Benny Morris reply..



I know it doesn’t sound nice but that’s the term they used at the time. I adopted it from all the 1948 documents in which I am immersed.




source



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 




No. Speaking of Arabs living currently WITHIN the State of Israel as plain, simple, constitutional citizens. Also with special rights as from muslim origin - the language as an official one, for example.

Edit : Or the right to worship in muslim faith, as much as for christian citizens, as evoked above.



[edit on 11/1/2009 by Netzar]

Removed large quote and rep[laced it with reply to
Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 11-1-2009 by GAOTU789]



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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Until finally we have what we see today as a result of WWII. So, just who exactly has any historical claim to what?

Just because there were empires it does not mean that a group of the population does not trace it's roots from a specific seed.
Maps showing there is just recent history, you need to go way back.

It may apear that they are all the same but as you can see the total is different, they were all the same at first, Stone age man from the arabian peninsula.So stone age man migrated and formed tribes, tribes in poximity mixed with another tribes giving it a distinctive path of what today is jordanians, palestinians and so on.

It's just the proximity of the area, when you leave and go further from that area people change as shown in the results.

I have studied this source in an intense maner in the last 24 hours for my understanding and knowlege.For me it's fascinating.There are some clear things.

www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...
Genetics.


Distribution of Y Chromosome Haplotypes in Six Middle Eastern Populations



Total 79 78 99 95 143 32 526


Even jews share the same Y Chromosome.Arabs are EU10 Jews are EU9

E10 can also be diferent from it's self, this making each group different.


Eu 10 was the most frequent haplogroup among Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin (table 1), with a low haplotype diversity (h=.82) in both populations. Forty-two percent of the haplotypes and 47% of the chromosomes in Eu 10 were only observed in the two Arab populations. Palestinians had ~42% of their Eu 10 chromosomes in common with Bedouin but had only 11% in common with the other four populations. The commonalities with the other four populations resulted from the sharing of low-frequency haplotypes. In contrast, in all the other haplogroups (except Hg 7, which was observed in only two Palestinian individuals in the present study), Palestinians shared 20%–46% of their chromosomes with the four non-Arab populations. Thus, the genetic distinctiveness of the Palestinian Arabs is mainly seen in the presence of specific high-frequency Eu 10 haplotypes not found in non-Arab groups.


Also E-10 and E-9 share a close relation on a secondary level from an overview since they share the same Y Chromosome.When everything is taken apart then they all become distinctive groups.



Incidentally, the UN didn't create Israel.....they created a 'partition' with the intent of providing land for both Arab and Jewish inhabitants. The Jewish people declared independence, fought for, and established the State of Israel.

This is all hocus pocus new stuff.It's not related to scientific data, and it's not related to ancient history.


[edit on 11-1-2009 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by Netzar
 


Do you mean these Arabs protesting in Israel??

Whoops those are ISRAELIS protesting uuuuuuuuu themselves!!!



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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Yes they did - thats exaclty how it occured - fact.

Further i can present maps of the Roman, Mongloan, German or even english empire - but none of these negates the existence of say Germany, China, France or Australia - what a nefarious presentation - just ridiculous.

Simply drawing the boundaries of empires as some sort of eradication of nationality, or even sovereignty clearly implies you have no idea between nation state, sovereign state, kingdom, principality or really any other notion of international relations - but you have access to the internet so who knows what other grand schemes of intellectual FUBAA you may come up with........

[edit on 11-1-2009 by audas]



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 



Read my posts, dude.

These are, as said in the vid, israeli left-wing protesters, as well as arabian-israeli citizens, indeed.

What is your point ? Israel is a democracy.

Note : this arab girl speaks of being taken as a traitor, but she's the only one who cries this out...



[edit on 11/1/2009 by Netzar]



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Netzar


Read my posts, dude.

These are, as said in the vid, israeli left-wing protesters, as well as arabian-israeli citizens, indeed.

What is your point ? Israel is a democracy.

Note : this arab girl speaks of being taken as a traitor, but she's the only one who cries this out...





Ah so then you agree that Israel has gone "MAD DOG"



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Read my posts.

Cheers.




posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Alpha_Magnum
 


And that's different from the migration of untold others, globally and historically, creating nations and sovereignty......how?

What moral grounds does anyone have to specifically single out any group for creating a nation, regardless of the ideology involved? Why are the Jewish singled out for doing what has been done on a global scale, for the entire history of mankind?



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by audas
Further i can present maps of the Roman, Mongloan, German or even english empire - but none of these negates the existence of say Germany, China, France or Australia - what a nefarious presentation - just ridiculous.

[snip]

but you have access to the internet so who knows what other grand schemes of intellectual FUBAA you may come up with........


Trim your quotes. And the snottiness isn't needed.

I think you may have missed the point, yet unwittingly strengthened it. That being.....what group has any historical claim to any modern Middle East boundaries, given their artificial creation? Does any time in the regions history negate the modern existence of Israel?



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
They may all be the same but not identical, each group shares a bond but they also are apart from other.It's in the first chapter of this thread, go ahead and look at it.Each group mixed with another group from another tirbe depending on the area of the arabian peninsula.
There is a difference betwen palestinians, syrians, jordanians and so on.
As for palestinians they are a mix of the area , mixed with the local inhabitants that lived on the coast.


I agree, but just what makes an independent state? The Jews came out of Egypt 1000s of years ago, and all the Jews of Europe that went back were direct descendants of that area anyways. How many countries today are based on the first indigenous population that lived there? How many countries won their independence through wars, or new lines were drawn because of wars? Your post suggests that neither the Palestinians nor Jews have a right as an independent state.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by audas
Yes they did - thats exaclty how it occured - fact.


I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here....but just to clarify;


Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in Part III of this Plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in Parts II and III below.Source


That is directly from UN General Assembly Resolution 181. The nation, state, or sovereignty of an entity called "Israel" is not mentioned. Specifically described are Arab and Jewish partitions in Palestine.

The State of Israel was declared by David Ben-Gurion in 1948; nearly a year after the implementation of the 1947 partition plan.

I wonder why we don't see threads excoriating the United States for its declaration of and subsequent independence?

[edit on 11-1-2009 by MrPenny]



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


Hat tip to pepsi78 above for the PubMed cite re: genomes specific to Palestinian Arabs and to Jews; further,

www.cohen-levi.org...

www.simpletoremember.com...

www.khazaria.com...

all tend to confirm that there is an actual series of genetic markers which link certain families of Jews to the Middle East; some markers are more specific to some regions than others.

Specifically, the kahanim, the priestly tribe of Levi, can be identified very specifically by a few genes they have been found to share. I'd say that took the racial identity of the Jewish people out of the "myth" category.

The last of the three references and the cite pepsi78 located, also indicate genes held in common by Palestinian Arabs, so that both the "Palestinian" and "Jewish" human strains are identifiable by their DNA.

I'd say that this shows both Palestinians and Jews are more than just mythically linked to geographic areas within the Middle East.

Obviously, more research is needed. For all the money spent in munitions NOT proving or disproving anything, some real answers could have been gotten in laboratories to these questions.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Murky]



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