Bible End Time is Islam

Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by VinceP1974

 

Anybody that quotes from MEMRI has no credibility, you might as well quote from a neonazi site.

Yeah those translators.. exactly like NAZIs. LOL.

Originally posted by VinceP1974
Um are Muslims Allah? Do try to read a little more carefully. I choose my words carefully and try not to characterize human beings as I do when describing the evil inherent in some spiritual forces and ideologies.

You seem to forget evil itself is a subjective topic. Many view your ideology as evil. I happen to view it as such because it spreads unwarranted fear in populations and causes people who would otherwise be peaceful to be hateful. You did say Allah was Satan however. By extension anyone who worships Allah would be worshiping Satan. One could also say any god's worshipers are his children therefor they could be called "sons", "spawn", "offspring" or what have you.

Then look for them yourself. I'm not your research department. Nor do I care if you disagree with my assertions. I am merely sharing my opinion and providing reasonable substantiation for why I formed them, I am not vested in any ones change of conviction.

Now you say this is just an opinion? Earlier you were telling me you could prove it. I tell you to prove it and all of a sudden you are telling me it's just an opinion. I'm sorry, did i paint you into the corner? I really don't think i have anymore to add here.

People stop living in fear!

Edit cause i forgot something

[edit on 2-1-2009 by antonia]

reply to post by VinceP1974


I am not remotely trying to get people to hate you, but I do indeed what them to hate the theory you have proposed. Denouncing the hundreds of millions of people who are followers of islam as the army of the antichrist and the bringers of apocalypse is hardly rational thought. Already in this thread, we have seen people agreeing with you and suggesting pre-emptive strikes on various countries. Strikes that would have no justification whatsoever.

Theories such as yours are dangerous, and provoke further discrimination in the minds of those who are already blurring the realms of morality. Most of my attack was on such people, not yourself. Either way I will not apologise, it is you that should be apologising to any muslims that may be unfortunate enough to come across this truly revolting thread. Perhaps I will write a thread that theorises Jesus as the antichrist and Christians as his army against good. Im sure I could find something in the Koran and use some pointless numerology or worthless code to link to the theory. Or perhaps ill do what ive always done, and ignore these religious texts that have corrupted the minds of so many and rely on my ongoing life experiences, conscience and irrefutable evidence to augment my beliefs.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by mrmanuva]

Originally posted by antonia
If Allah is Satan then it means Muslims worship Satan. There is no way to wiggle out of that.

If you'd include the rest of my reply on the topic you'd see I mention deceit (and Satan is the greatest deceiver of all time right?). I think that IF the topic at hand were to infact be accurate, and proven without a doubt to be true, a good number of those caught in deceit would realize the truth.
Basically to sum it all up.. worship by deceit and lies in my mind doesn't shape who they are. It's who they are after the lie is proven false in my mind... and then comes the time for forgiveness.
(this is all stated on the what-if motif regarding the topic @ hand.)

*edited for typo's


[edit on 2-1-2009 by n1zzzn]

(addendum: babel=gate of the water god (chaos-tiamat). also stated in akkadian as "Babilu" (note the ilu suffix and the ba prefix). the tower of babel (babilu) was the "gate of ilu" or to be more precise, the gate of the water god, or even more precise, the gate of the chaos (tiamat) water god.

the etymology of

Chaos

c.1440, "gaping void," from L. chaos, from Gk. khaos "abyss, that which gapes wide open, is vast and empty," from *khnwos, from PIE base *gheu-, *gh(e)i- "to gape" (cf. Gk khaino "I yawn," O.E. ginian, O.N. ginnunga-gap; see yawn). Meaning "utter confusion" (1606) is extended from theological use of chaos for "the void at the beginning of creation" in Vulgate version of Genesis. The Gk. for "disorder" was tarakhe, however the use of chaos here was rooted in Hesiod ("Theogony"), who describes khaos as the primeval emptiness of the Universe, begetter of Erebus and Nyx ("Night"), and in Ovid ("Metamorphoses"), who opposes Khaos to Kosmos, "the ordered Universe." Chaotic is from 1713.

www.etymonline.com...

Babel or Babylon = "confusion (by mixing)"

1) Babel or Babylon, the ancient site and/or capital of Babylonia (modern Hillah) situated on the Euphrates

www.blueletterbible.org...

Tiamat

In Babylonian mythology[1], Tiamat is the sea, personified as a goddess,[2] and a monstrous embodiment of primordial chaos.[3] In the Enûma Elish, the Babylonian epic of creation, she gives birth to the first generation of gods; she later makes war upon them and is split in two by the storm-god Marduk, who uses her body to form the heavens and the earth. She was known as Thalattē (as variant of thalassa, the Greek word for "sea") in the Hellenistic Babylonian Berossus' first volume of universal history, and some Akkadian copyists of Enûma Elish slipped and substituted the ordinary word for "sea" for Tiamat, so close was the association.[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

Babel

capital of Babylon, 1382, from Heb. Babhel (Gen. ix), from Akkadian bab-ilu "Gate of God" (from bab "gate" + ilu "god"). The name is a translation of Sumerian Ka-dingir. Meaning "confused medley of sounds" (1529) is from the biblical story of the Tower of Babel.

www.etymonline.com...

the abyss is the bottomless pit.
so the serpent from the abzu or abyss, is the serpent from the bottomless pit, the void, the chaotic void, that somehow became associated with water, thus the abyss reference.

This is my first visit to ATS.What an excellent debate going on here.I want to thank JEMIMA for the suggestion concerning dispensational teaching in the church.I am going to check it out thoroughly.

I also want to say thank you to all of those who are posting in this thread.It has provoked much for me in examining why I believe what I do.I'm headed right back to where I left off.Again thanks to all who are posting here.

AnonatATS

Same old "My religion is good, yours is evil" BS

What you need to get through your thick skull is that they were all organized by the same party to control dumb crowds like yourself and it sure as hell did it's job.

Now to bring about a One World Government you also need a belief system and what better way of continuing with the ever popular fairytale(your religion) sequel.

Originally posted by SR
It does defintely make sense the end times in the bible merely talking and speculating the end times of the 'Christian' empire drawing on knowledge of empires rising and falling throughout the times and religions coming and going throughout the times before and during and the bible's completion.

It's funny that the end result...i.e. heaven... which i believe was one of the first concepts of everyone believing the same thing. The small number of people being saved in the onslaught againt the beast was it 100,000 or so and the rest of us meeting a sticky end and going to hell.

The same things are mirrored with the Koran everyone being muslim and the muslim caliphate.

I'm shaky with the Jewish stance on end times so i'll to research those later

I'm going to re-read relevations though thanks to this thread and think about it more.

A remnant of the Jews will be saved and enter the Kingdom of heaven(12,000 from each of 12 tribes is 144,000). The rest of us are called gentiles. Gentiles that receive Christ as Lord and Savior are grafted into the vine and become joint heirs in the Kingdom of Heaven with the 144,000 Jewish remnant.

The question arises, "how does one know whether or not they are one with God and have a place in His eternal kingdom?

If a man says he loves God yet he hates his brother, he is a liar and God is not in him. 1 John 4:20

To be one with God one's lost spirit must first be regenerated. I speak of the very spirit that all mankind lost at the fall and which lies dormant in our soul as a dried up seed of eternity. It is a spiritual seed which cries out from the depths of one's soul to be resurrected, regenerated and reunited with God the Father.

The lost spirit must be brought to life in us. It's life and growth requires nothing but for us to place our faith in the Divine nature of God and to desire our hearts and minds to be governed by it. To be like Christ one must put on the new man and seek to have his heart governed by the Divine Nature of God: Humility, Meekness, Patience, and Love for all that flows from the Divine Creator himself. And then your battle begins because your fallen nature of covetousness envy pride and wrath is contrary to the Divine nature of your regenerated Spirit. But by turning to one nature you will be turning from the other, just as sure as walking east puts your back to the west.

Meditate on these things and at the appointed time the Day Star will rise in your heart and all things will become clear.

So we regard the words of the prophets as confirmed beyond all doubt. You're doing well by paying attention to their words. Continue to pay attention as you would to a light that shines in a dark place as you wait for day to come and the Day Star to rise in your hearts. 2 Peter 1:19.

In other words, the bible(words of the prophets) gives us direction and a glimpse of what is to come(the Spirit of God). When the Spirit of God comes and unites with your spirit, old things pass away and all things become new. The Spirit of God brings to our spirit a higher consciousness, higher faith, and a higher awareness of God.

Hopefully one can see how universally simple the way to true enlightenment and the Kingdom of Heaven is for all.

Originally posted by VinceP1974
After doing a reexamination of key parts of Daniel and Revelation many of us have realized that the end time will witness a Revived Islamic Caliphate and the Antichrist will be the Islamic Mahdi.

Let's see if this stands up to scrutiny then, :-) .

When you compare Islamic and Biblical Eschatology you find extremely similar events described except that in Islam the Muslims are doing the things that are described as the bad guys in the Bible.

List the 'extremely similar' events please.

100% of these nations are Muslim countries today.

So? You're assuming the end times are now. Granted many may think so, but this does not mean it is. Many also though it at 999 AD.

What about approx 300 years after Jesus death? Constantine made the empire christian. meaning, all those lands you speak about where christian then. Going by your hypothesis, back then we coulda said the same about christianity. So, whether many nations are one religion at this moment, indicates nothing.

The Antichrist is called the Assyrian, Prince of Tyre, King of Babylon, Pharaoh of Egypt, Gog. The KJV in Isaiah call his master , Lucifer. In other versions he's the Shining One, Son of the dawn. In Hebrew he's Helel Ben Shacker.. In Arabic that's Crescent Moon and Morning Star (symbol of Islam).

The Muslims will call Antichrist: Imam al Mahdi.

oh really? Hmm. Who has told you of this? Firstly, the anti-christ in Islam will be called Dajjal. And he is described in great detail.

Source: www.islam.tc... .

Secondly. Imam Mahdi is to be the saviour of Islam. To deliver them from Roman Christianity. Now, just because a person is not muslim, or is a Christian, doe snot mean Imam Mahdi is the anti-christ. In fact, it makes no sense at all. Imam Mahdi will lead a war, which will only end when Jesus comes back.

Source: www.islamicweb.com...

About the crescent moon & star. you are alluding, that is means the anti-christ. Well, there is no proof of that. The symbol for Islam was adopted properly with the Ottoman empire, around 1400 AD. It has roots dating back many 1000's of years, probably to celestial meanings. It doesn't follow it is anything to do with any anti-christ. It predates all that stuff considerably.

Source: islam.about.com...

In almost every OT book, there's End Time prophecy of some nations getting judged. They are always the same ones.. all of them Muslim.

Yes, if it came now. However 1700 years ago it would be Roman Christian. you have no way of knowing when the end will come, so current religious demographics mean little. Scaremongering aside. Unless of course, you have intimate knowledge of the end. :-) .

What is wrote here is largely inaccurate, and is conjecture, every little bit of stuff that ostracises another group, leads to more negative views, and is becoming a self-fullfilling prophecy.

And before anyone starts about Islamic terrorists. Just remember, what is a terrorist. In this sick society, we in the west think it's acceptable to bomb countries 1000's of miles away, killing countless innocents. Some governments may even kill their own people apparently. and use that as a platform to kill countless hundreds of thousands. Perhaps the real anti-christ is far closer to home than we realise, or the media gives us a chance to think about. We should stay of the flouride in our toothpaste, and try to be more objective. Imo, of course. :-).

Take care
Wayne







[edit on 2-1-2009 by reiki]

The bible references those nations because it was the cradle of civilization and effectively at that time the center of the of the known world.

The vast majority of Muslims in this world are peaceful god fearing people just like any other religion and they live everywhere. I thought the ATS motto was Deny Ignorance? It is extremely ignorant to bunch a whole group of people into a group because of a handful of extremists. Shall we judge Christianity based on the Crusades or Germany for Hitler and the Holocaust?

It's sickens me that people will take a historic and beneficent work like the Bible or Koran and then interpret it to suit their bigotry, then condemn the other for doing the same thing.

Wake up and stop spreading hate.

this is all fine and dandy but as soon as you study the bible BEFORE the age of christ you will realize that a majority of it is taken from the age before ours.

such as the egyptian "laws" that are the basis for our 10 commandments etc...

the bible been around a lot longer than christ was and as soon as you see they use this "relgion" to steer our course through the better!

religion is control my friends.

think for yourself and see the walls become sand beneath your feet..

Originally posted by VinceP1974

I advocate attacking Iran now.. before they get the bomb. I advocate massive attacks onthe Palestinians. I would pursue just the opposite of what the Bible says the future is like.

IN case you dont know this, HAMAS has declared war on the US. And once they finish thier Israel business, they intend on moving on to the next target.

Iran: Since even the questionably interpreted quotes from a questionable source you posted don't contain anything much more blatant than talk of "opposing American hegemony" and "supporting those who are against America", your claim is weak....I don't see anywhere in there where he says "I'm gonna pre-emptively nuke America", period.

Hamas is not going to "finish their Israel business" and move on to a new target. The only "finishing of business" they will do with Israel is dying. Casualty levels are massively disproportionate...Israel's military technology is vastly superior. Hamas is no real threat to Israel, nevermind to the United States.

Also, while I've heard plenty of assertions about a "Muslim war of global conquest", I know of no nations which are currently under a foreign Muslim occupation. I do however know of a few Muslim nations which are currently under western military occupation. Who's running the war of conquest?

While the other empires you mention were political entities, Islam is a religion. No unified Islamic empire yet exists, and the flexibility with which you interchange Islam as a religion and the physical geography in which that religion dominates seems critical to your argument.

Unfortunately, rather than anything particularly clear, our prophets seem to have provided us with a lot of vague imagery that's open to interpretation, and startlingly devoid of any geographical or political knowledge that wasn't available at the time of writing.

Originally posted by bignick
Same old "My religion is good, yours is evil" BS

What you need to get through your thick skull is that they were all organized by the same party to control dumb crowds like yourself and it sure as hell did it's job.

Now to bring about a One World Government you also need a belief system and what better way of continuing with the ever popular fairytale(your religion) sequel.

One's God is that which one obeys and everyone resembles(in character, disposition, nature, etc.) the God they understand.

Religion with all it's rituals, practices and piety serves only to build a wall between God and man unless it points us in the direction of the Spirit of God.

I follow the way of the Divine Spirit of God that is free and can only manifest as an unchangeable immutable will to all that is good, honorable, and just.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by John Matrix]

reply to post by PocketRevolution

Unfortunately, rather than anything particularly clear, our prophets seem to have provided us with a lot of vague imagery that's open to interpretation, and startlingly devoid of any geographical or political knowledge that wasn't available at the time of writing.

i believe part of the problem with that is translation error. english is better at explaining symbols and some of the older languages are better at layered symbollism.

I have been following this thread from the beginning and one thing is clear... People don't like their beliefs to be called evil. That being said, end time prophesy can be interprated many ways and we will just have to see who indeed is correct, if any of us are. I have been following biblical prophesy for sometime now, and it seems to me that it is extremely reliable. Those who would say it is just a story don't seem to grasp the true intention of its writer. It is the inspired word of our creator and His plan to bring us back to Him through His Son. The end time prophecy was given to help us understand what age we are in.
I can see how the OP came to his conclusion and so far I have to agree based on my own research. When I began my research, though, I thought differently.

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by bignick
Same old "My religion is good, yours is evil" BS

What you need to get through your thick skull is that they were all organized by the same party to control dumb crowds like yourself and it sure as hell did it's job.

Now to bring about a One World Government you also need a belief system and what better way of continuing with the ever popular fairytale(your religion) sequel.

One's God is that which one obeys and everyone resembles(in character, disposition, nature, etc.) the God they understand.

Religion with all it's rituals, practices and piety severs only to build a wall between God and man.

I follow the way of the Divine Spirit of God that is free and can only manifest as an unchangeable immutable will to all that is good, honorable, and just.

Fancy words though it's coming from someone who is "battling evil forces in the heavenly realms" and is eagerly waiting for judgment day

The problem with all of this reasoning is that it could actually take away from the real meaning of anti-Christ, and side-track people with a thought that may have no relevance, or one with an entirely different message, and it could detract you.

As Byrd pointed out on AshleyD's thread; it can produce the opposite of what is wanted. And even perhaps a very negative one at that!

Here is an option that no-one talks about: supposing the anti-Christ is actually a good thing and one promoted by God? Perhaps this composite being or individual is a metaphor for a huge change and one that may even be positive?

It supports my argument that the Bible was written for different reasons with an entirely different message. Perhaps the anti-Christ needs to be viewed inside out, or the opposite of what man has been taught, or thinks?

Originally posted by bignick
Fancy words though it's coming from someone who is "battling evil forces in the heavenly realms" and is eagerly waiting for judgment day

Thank you for that. The evil forces can best be described as thoughts that are at enmity to the Spirit of God. The "battle" is to not allow evil thoughts to take root in one's mind. Evil thoughts come by two ways.

1. From following other people who have allowed evil thoughts to shape and control them,

2. directly from the realm of the fallen angel Lucifer.

So the Spirit of God is my gatekeeper and sword against the evil thought realm.

Any other Gatekeeper is built on the thoughts of man and Lucifer and is a delusion. Such a delusion will burn to ashes on Judgement Day, when there will be waling and gnashing of teeth.

reply to post by VinceP1974


You astound me, really. You know about as much about Islam as a brainwashed Muslim extremist does about Christianity because you yourself are a brainwashed extremist. Unless you grew up with Islamic culture or speak some form of arabic please don't try and convince me you do, you will just embarrass yourself.

If you don't believe that a positive idea/religion can be misinterpreted to serve a negative agenda, please read your first post. Christianity has been condemned just as harshly by others who didn't know better and here you are committing the same crime.

reply to post by John Matrix


What exactly is an evil thought? Oh wait there is no such thing as an evil thought.