ZZzzzzz same crap about bible said this and bible said that..

BIBLE AND KORAN ARE COPIES. Period

Originally posted by VinceP1974
The Bible predicted that the Jews would under an exile after teh Babylonian exile, And that this exile would be extraordinary long.

Can you prove those assertions were made before that event occurred?

So you see, I did test the Bible.. everything God has said about the Jewish return from their long exile is happening.

No, you didn't prove anything. You are once again quoting from source material which has been edited numerous times. You cannot prove it's true.

All that's to happen next is for Israel to lose all its allies (We're their one), Israel to seek peace with Antichrist, and then the Muslim attack on the world.

And you don't need to be religious to know the Muslims are on a global mission of conquest.

This isn't about helping anyone for you. That's what's so disgusting about it. It's about spreading fear of Muslims and their religion. To lump all Muslims together and proclaim they are on some mission to convert the entire planet is xenophobia at it's highest. Furthermore what makes Christians any different? Methodology, that's all.

The Atheists today sure are uppity. They're lucky they were born in a Christian-influenced society. It was the Protestant values of individual conscience that led to secularization of society.

I'm not an atheist. Calling atheistic people "uppity" is so very insulting. I'm sorry, it's "uppity" to question beliefs?

Originally posted by St Udio

from OP:

THe 6th empire at the time of John is Rome. We're told the 7th Empire does not yet exist at that time. Every Empire conquers the previous one and controls Israel.

The next empire to seize Jerusalem and destroy the preceding Empire.... The Islamic Caliphate

the main contention i have with this reasoning is that
we are told that the last kingdom will be unlike the others, it will be diverse ...

The End Time Empire will be a compsoite of all the past empires.


I made two diagrams to help visualize this.

The first diagram lists the 8 Empires down the column along with the Capitals, and I highlighted the proper subdivision of the Greek and Roman Empires that that the empire chain folllows.

I then associate the empires to their sequence given in Rev 17, and to Daniel 2 Statue Prophecy, And Daniel 4 Beasts






This chart here shows the geographic reach of the various empires. Just like Rev 16 stress multiple times that Rome isnot the End Time Empire.. this chart shows that Rome never consisted of all the past empires. The End Time empire must consist of Babylon, Perisa and Macadonian.

The Caliphate does this. Rome doesn't.


[

having a desert religious/caliphate sure is not an uncommon enemy-antigonist kingdom to the Hebrew/Israelites/Jews...

Rev 17 makes it clear that the 8th Empire is from one of the past 7.. thus it would never be uncommon or unknown. I think what you're referring is the description that the violence of the Empire is distinctive and new.. and yes it will be.. it will be traditional Islam COMBINED with direct involvement of the Devil as if Islam wasn't brutal enough.

A coalition of the willing, led by an American-Israeli-Anglo confederation,
would also fit the bill as the 'feet & toes' of Daniels statue...
rather than a inherently conflicted Caliphate which will surely self destruct
because of the infighting between the Suni-&-Shia sects

No , it wouldn't. You just can't aim for one prophecy if you're looking for an innovative explanation. It has to fit within all the prophecies. The Rev 13 Beast (which is the same as the Rev 17 Beast) shows that it's a composite of Persia, Babylon, Greek/Macedonian)

we have been warned that even the elect would be deceived...,
what better deception than the loudest sponser for humanitarianism, freedom, liberty...
would continue to be undiscerned as -> the Beast of Revelations
who does crush and trample nations and peoples over the world.
(the USA has troops stationed at more than 117 nations over the globe)


cheers in 2009

A better deception will be the Muslim Jesus who purports to be the real Jesus. In this thread I did a line by line break down of Rev 13 (this introduces the Antichrist and False Prophet).

You should see what I wrote for the False Prophet. What the mission of the Muslim Jesus is. I believe that could be the great deception.

I dont think God is concerned about fooling Americans regarding government principles.


The beauty of the Islamic Paradigm is that a lot of these wild speculations aren't required.

You also need some sort of methodology to follow. I really don't know how anyone would reach the view that America and UK are part of the Babylonian Statue from reading the Bible alone.

The way I type is sometimes lacking in expressing that even though I'm fairly confident in my opinion, I don't mean to imply that I am Correct and everyone else is wrong. So when i say things like you "You have to..." "You also need ....". Im just stating in my opinion. Everyone is free to believe what they want.

It is idotic, and frankly ridiculous theories, such as this, that have caused much of the current conflicts in the world. To call Islam the end times is a joke. The bible is a book of stories, stories that are designed to give moral lessons. The bible is no different to the old parables and fables, its aim is to teach what is right and what is wrong, nothing more, nothing less. To take the words literally and come to conclusions such as those displayed by the op, is completely insane.

There are people here talking about attacking the middle east, because of this conjecture, it really is scary. The bible is a fairytale, it says nothing explicitly about the future, which is intentional, because then foolish people can attribute anything that happens to what really is just mindless drivil. Most of you that are talking about attacking the middle east don't even know what is really going on, you don't know the facts of the situation, yet your infantile belief in the greatest story ever told, leads you to come to irrational conclusions.

I really am starting to think that people who spend their time trying to work out what the bible is predicting are nothing more than demented sociopaths. A bunch of mad scientists that should be locked away. If you assume nothing, read between the lines and bend things enough, you can fit nearly any theory to the bible, just as you can nearly any story.

There is nothing literal to be taken from supposed bible prophecy, it is ambiguous, and always will be, because it was written by normal people, not divinely inspired prophets. The bible is just an old book, when you accept that, you will stop worrying about stupid things and get on with living an enjoyable, fulfilling life. The only way anything like this will come true, is if people make it happen, not because it always was going to happen, but because crazed christians want it to happen so desperately, to prove that worthless pile of paper is the word of god. There have been so many extremist christians and muslims rearing their ugly heads recently, that it wouldn't surpise me.



[edit on 2-1-2009 by mrmanuva]

Originally posted by antonia

Can you prove those assertions were made before that event occurred?

There is no dispute that the Old Testament was completed before the Jewish Revolt in Roman Times.

No, you didn't prove anything. You are once again quoting from source material which has been edited numerous times. You cannot prove it's true.

Well , actually I paraphrased the source material. You want me to prove that the Jewish people's experience since Rome expelled them is in line with the prophecies that were long since written down and not changed by then?

Lets do an experiment.. pretend the prophecies that I mentioned above about the long Jewish exile aren't true prophecies and someone wrote the Old Testament last week. Has the past 2000 years of Jewish history been in line with what was written it would be? Yes it is.

There's your proof. You choose not to believe it. So be it. People are free to think whatever they want.

I dont go onto threads that other people start about the things they want to discuss and totally start attacking his very basic interests and hobbies.

This isn't about helping anyone for you. That's what's so disgusting about it. It's about spreading fear of Muslims and their religion. To lump all Muslims together and proclaim they are on some mission to convert the entire planet is xenophobia at it's highest. Furthermore what makes Christians any different? Methodology, that's all.

Wow. I never heard someone say that before. Not. This is the typical boilerplate of someone who doens't know Islam at all.

I am not Politically Correct. I speak my mind. And the Islamic religion is a prison for those born and trapped in it, and a torture for those who it comes against.

The Islamic religion calls for all the things that I said. If a Muslim decides not to them, then I wasn't talking about them obviously.

Just because you lack the common sense to handle a generalization, don't impose this disability on others. Everyone familiar with Islam and Jihad knows that not every Muslim chooses to adhere to it. It goes without saying.

But since you know nothing about it, you don't even know that. And yet you pretend to preach to me what I can or cannot say about it?

As far as other religions go.. say whatever the hell you want. I don't care. Start your own thread. This one isn't about your precious need to defend Islam.

'm not an atheist. Calling atheistic people "uppity" is so very insulting. I'm sorry, it's "uppity" to question beliefs?

Fine, I retract applying "uppity" to atheists. That wasn't my intent. The intent was to call you uppity and I had assumed you were an atheist.

As far as insulting goes... I was just reacting to yours. Maybe next time you should try to make a less divisive first impression.

Originally posted by mrmanuva
...
[edit on 2-1-2009 by mrmanuva]

So my speculating about what a book hypothetically says about something that might or might not even happen in some unknown future time and is totally out of my hands regardless, that means I am as sociopath.

You trying to instill into others a hatred of me, an individual in real life because of an Internet message isn't being a sociopath?

I would say you're the deranged one..considering how much you wrote and the provocative language chosen specifically to make me, a person, an object of people's contempt. I would say what you did is far worse. You should apologize.

Originally posted by whiteraven
Also, Islam's god , Allah, is really the crescent moon god of war.

When Abram lived in Ur, Ur's chief god, Sin, was the Babylonian chief god of the crescent moon. Allah is Satan.

I find it amazing how many people overlook that little bit of information that stares them in the face. Islam and other submissive religions will say, "We should get along, after all, its the same god we worship!"

No its not! They are worshiping the Moon God, Satan. BIG Difference their.

Want proof, look it up yourselves for a chance, thats the only way you will be convinced anyways. Any post you get here wont change your minds. Go read a book, like 'Prophet of Doom'.

In the prophecy, the Anti-Chris, is Anyone who is against Christ. That is a huge confusion with end times Christians right now. And the rapture, No such thing. All the good people are going to remain on earth when this happens. See what happened after Jesus was crucified. Did all the good people vanish? No, they hung around didnt they. Dont be confuse by the 'Being lifted up in the heavens to greet the Savior' and Rapture, all good people being snatched out of their clothing. Their is a big difference between a massive kidnapping and a handshake.

The Beast who's head was wounded and then healed. Hmm, sounds a lot like Germany to me. Its head was darn near decapitated, then healed, wouldn't you say? Twice that I can think of.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by arcnaver]

Originally posted by mrmanuva
It is idotic, and frankly ridiculous theories, such as this, that have caused much of the current conflicts in the world.

Well ,someone had to say it
It seems to me that all this mythology inspired 'end times' fanaticism is inspired more by narrow minded religious bigotry and agenda driven subjective interpretation than anything else.
No doubt if it does occur it will take the form of hysterical cultists enacting out a self fulfilling prophesy by throwing nuclear warheads at each other (with every other reasonable,rational person caught in the middle).

Originally posted by karl 12

Well ,someone had to say it
It seems to me that all this mythology inspired 'end times' fanaticism is inspired more by narrow minded religious bigotry and agenda driven subjective interpretation than anything else.
No doubt if it does occur it will take the form of hysterical cultists enacting out a self fulfilling prophesy by throwing nuclear warheads at each other (with every other reasonable,rational person caught in the middle).

Iran says it's their role in this world to start a nuclear war. And it's been shown that Iran is deceitful negotiator but that is moot because Iran says the issue is not up for any more diplomacy. The question is.. what does one do about that?

Everything I've said about attacking Iran was is from my basic human self-defense mechanism and nationalism.

That I spent time organizing this thread about my theory about Islam has no bearing on that.

It seems to me that folks who are saying things similar to you have a very limited and shallow ability to analyze he thoughts and motivations of the people you think you do.

So again, let me happoly clarify for you:

My policy advice of destroying the Govt of Iran as well as militarily destroying the will of the "Palestinians" is not informed by nor motivated by nor in service to any religion.

Originally posted by VinceP1974


Iran says it's their role in this world to start a nuclear war. And it's been shown that Iran is deceitful negotiator but that is moot because Iran says the issue is not up for any more diplomacy. The question is.. what does one do about that?

Can you prove the Iranian government has made such claims?

Thanks to the OP for a good discussion & read.

I personally believe as a Christain it is considered a responsibility of mine to try to understand/discern what is written in the Bible, which would include discussions amongst all people.(whether Christain, Agnostic or none of the above)

I think it would be very rash and very detremental to one's self to act upon anti-Muslim feelings or those that could be derived from this thread (which just screams weak minded).
There doesn't seem to be a direct emphasis on discrediting or attacking Islam, the thread topic seems to have held true to the orignal hypothesis of Islam relating to Revelations.

To discredit the idea by attacking the topic as Anti-Muslim or the like doesn't really seem credibile.
And to refute something I saw earlier regarding the Bible and authenticity, you say it cannot be proven true based it may have been edited.
I offer you this in direct relation to the comment: you can't prove it false either.

Originally posted by VinceP1974
I really believe it's a matter of time before some Muslim force somewhere destroys the US. If Iran doesn't do it, someoone else will.. eventually.

Please list every threat Iran has ever made towards the US.

I rather go down fighting then sit on my hands waiting to be vaporized. I hope you can understand.

What would Jesus do?