In social and personality psychology students learn that ordinary people walk around with illusions. According to Taylor and Brown three patterns of
these positive illusions emerge: people overestimate their good qualities, achievements, abilities; people overestimate how much control they have,
and they are more optimistic than warranted by objective circumstance. These patterns describe normal, well-adjusted people. Taylor and Brown also
suggest that the absence of these patterns is linked w/ depression and other forms of dysfunction.
Could it be that the people of ATS simply don't walk around with these illusions, and they actually construe reality as it truly is? Well to think
that could be naive realism. Perhaps us ATSers are best described as existentially depressed? I personally think that questioning the things we do
is probably more symptomatic of our sensitivity to what surrounds us.
The coming attack on ATS by MSM , page 15
reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 08:03 PM by Lifthrasir
Of course, has anyone seen the *big breath* Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007? It hasn't been passed by the
president yet, but it has been passed by the House of Representitives.
www.govtrack.us...
(buttons won't work on my browser! Mods, please fix this if need be!)
www.govtrack.us...
(buttons won't work on my browser! Mods, please fix this if need be!)
reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 08:04 PM by Yoda411
reply to post by pickles123
I see that as a highly possible hypothesis, and I thank you very much for contributing this information.
I very much concur that lacking these illusions, which ultimately are positive reinforcement, could be a contribution to depression.
[edit on 12/17/08 by Yoda411]
I see that as a highly possible hypothesis, and I thank you very much for contributing this information.
I very much concur that lacking these illusions, which ultimately are positive reinforcement, could be a contribution to depression.
[edit on 12/17/08 by Yoda411]
reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 08:15 PM by angel of lightangelo
Originally posted by blowfishdl
Did you really just link to another thread, which you created, surrounding this ABC article as evidence that ATS is under attack by MSM?
I find that statement of credible evidence to be completely absurd and bias.
You are completely right. I jumped there to get to the article and apparently had the wrong link on my clipboard. Thanks for pointing that out. try this
reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 08:21 PM by blowfishdl
Wow. You all need to read the post by Yoda411 on this related thread. Just wow, you need to read it to believe it. This is seriously the concrete
evidence which links the use of conspiracy websites to contribution to mental health issues.
Yoda finally did it!
Yoda finally did it!
reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 08:30 PM by antar
reply to post by Yoda411
yoda, you are very wise however which side of the fence are you truly sending energy to?
I 'had' to stop watching msm 'programs' long ago, they indeed were causing depressing effects, for instance after 911.
The only way I keep my sanity is by sites like this one. I do however have to take a break from time to time and that is why I am a document archivist. The reality of looking into the past somehow makes the present seem more plausible and easier to understand.
I recommend you take a deep look in the archives to see in retrospect what has happened and where we are now and the direction we are most definitely headed if we continue to ignore the facts.
yoda, you are very wise however which side of the fence are you truly sending energy to?
I 'had' to stop watching msm 'programs' long ago, they indeed were causing depressing effects, for instance after 911.
The only way I keep my sanity is by sites like this one. I do however have to take a break from time to time and that is why I am a document archivist. The reality of looking into the past somehow makes the present seem more plausible and easier to understand.
I recommend you take a deep look in the archives to see in retrospect what has happened and where we are now and the direction we are most definitely headed if we continue to ignore the facts.
reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 08:49 PM by angel of lightangelo
Originally posted by blowfishdl
Wow. You all need to read the post by Yoda411 on this related thread. Just wow, you need to read it to believe it. This is seriously the concrete evidence which links the use of conspiracy websites to contribution to mental health issues.
And then scroll down to where I put that to rest as well here
reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 10:19 PM by americandingbat
Okay, only one long catchup post tonight 
Before that though, I want to say how proud I am to belong to a site where an argument like this can go on (and on and on) and remain more or less on topic and if not quite civil, not egregiously offensive.
This post by JipStix was really great – I recommend rereading it to anyone who missed it. He/she discusses (from the perspective of a person with an education in journalism) how skew and spin can work in stories that remain “factual” or at least are not “lies.”
This view has also been expressed by several other posters – I just chose this one to quote because it was the first one in the part I was catching up on.
It is true that the MSM (including non-news media like movies, TV shows, etc) have long portrayed conspiracy theorists as “nut jobs.”
They have not long portrayed conspiracy theorists as clinically mentally ill people who are being exploited by others who run “online conspiracy empires” which may lead people into paranoia and even insanity.
In other words, the image is no longer a goofy, harmless, dude who stands on the corner in his tin foil with a sign while he tries to tell people that he was born on Jupiter.
Instead, the image is directly linked to clinical illness, even schizophrenia, to a public trained to believe that the only answer to mental illness is medication and in extreme cases institutionalization and sedation.
That’s a big difference, and it taps into the modern fear that mental illness will strike us or a loved one without warning.
Again, this was brought up by several people.
But the ABC article didn’t mention ATS – if it had, I would be less convinced that it was pure propaganda.
It provided links to two “conspiracy sites” – David Icke’s and one I’m unfamiliar with that is apparently a support site for people who believe that they are victims of “mob stalking”.
No link to, say, Alex Jones’ Information Wars site (although I don’t like him, I like the title of the site and think it’s accurate in terms of what’s going on).
No link to ATS.
No link to web sites about UFOs or the Federal Reserve/U.S.Treasury stuff.
The only examples used in the ABC article are on the fringe edge of even what’s accepted here at ATS.
That says “spin control” to me.
Exellent post. I’m mostly just putting it here so people who missed it have another chance to check it out
1) The way ATS advertising works is such that companies do not directly contract with the site for ad space. Rather, they contract with a middleman called (dang, I forget. The link is at the bottom of every page. Media Mayhem maybe?). That company in turn packages ads and buys space on ATS for them. So MSNBC may have no idea that ATS is one of the hundreds or thousands of sites that Media Mayhem is running their bits on.
Even if they do, advertising on your rival’s space is always a good call – that’s why networks don’t sell ad spots to each other.
2) It’s an interesting theory that ABC (it’s not NBC, btw) was trying to start a conspiracy theory with this story. I don’t think it’s that plausible, but I’m willing to consider it.
That theory though acknowledges what I’ve been arguing all along which is that the story had an ulterior motive and is not the innocent fluff news piece it pretends to be.
This point is also raised in this post by Yoda411 and this post by Yoda411
Another excellent post. I’m really impressed that this topic is still getting such quality thought here
Okay, I went and read the post. And followed the link to the thread started by the ATS member in question.
This is gonna be kind of hard to discuss, because I do not want in any way to minimize the harm done by an individual, but I also don’t want to judge or denigrate someone whose life ended in such tragedy.
Using this boy as the poster child for harm caused by ATS however just won’t work.
Yes, he was a member; yes he posted here with possibly delusionary statements; yes he even mentioned here that he was suspected as a possible school murder/suicide candidate by school officials.
At least in the thread that Yoda linked to, he does not give any cause to believe that such a tragedy is imminent – if anything, he gives the impression that the school officials should have such a scenario in hand.
During the course of that thread, he is offered derision by one poster (who later recants and apologizes) and support by many. Some do support his assertion that seeing a white owl might be connected with death or ill luck; but one can hardly blame the tragic end of his life on that connection.
I don’t know what sort of reception his ideas had on other sites, or what the nature of those sites is (I don’t think nazi.org is what ABC had in mind as a “conspiracy theory website). But ATS is certainly not implicated in that crime.
(edited to tame bbcode tags)
(edit to add link to Virgin Media to test Net Neutrality thread in Breaking News Forum today)
[edit on 12/17/08 by americandingbat]
Before that though, I want to say how proud I am to belong to a site where an argument like this can go on (and on and on) and remain more or less on topic and if not quite civil, not egregiously offensive.
Original post by JipStix
I have a degree in Journalism. I thoroughly know how "fact-checking" works, and also know how the industry works. You don't have to lie or falsify information in order to shape someone's opinion. All you have to do is present the information in a certain way that would evoke a certain response.
This post by JipStix was really great – I recommend rereading it to anyone who missed it. He/she discusses (from the perspective of a person with an education in journalism) how skew and spin can work in stories that remain “factual” or at least are not “lies.”
Original post by pieman
holy crap, the MSM is saying conspiracy theorists are nut jobs, jebus h cripes, thats a shock. i can't believe it, no-one has ever said anything like that before!!!!!!
it hardly makes a difference what the MSM say, it's looking more and more like the tinfoil hat wearing crazies on the corner were pretty much bang on, so the time for exposing conspiracies is almost passed one way or the other.
propaganda is obsolete, but media isn't much good at anything else. this stuff is just the last fart of a dying bohemeith
This view has also been expressed by several other posters – I just chose this one to quote because it was the first one in the part I was catching up on.
It is true that the MSM (including non-news media like movies, TV shows, etc) have long portrayed conspiracy theorists as “nut jobs.”
They have not long portrayed conspiracy theorists as clinically mentally ill people who are being exploited by others who run “online conspiracy empires” which may lead people into paranoia and even insanity.
In other words, the image is no longer a goofy, harmless, dude who stands on the corner in his tin foil with a sign while he tries to tell people that he was born on Jupiter.
Instead, the image is directly linked to clinical illness, even schizophrenia, to a public trained to believe that the only answer to mental illness is medication and in extreme cases institutionalization and sedation.
That’s a big difference, and it taps into the modern fear that mental illness will strike us or a loved one without warning.
Originally posted by dhunter
Just a thought - but what if by MSM mentioning ATS and this type of website - more people of like mind show up and register - and create an even bigger demonstration of "we're not gonna take it"?
Again, this was brought up by several people.
But the ABC article didn’t mention ATS – if it had, I would be less convinced that it was pure propaganda.
It provided links to two “conspiracy sites” – David Icke’s and one I’m unfamiliar with that is apparently a support site for people who believe that they are victims of “mob stalking”.
No link to, say, Alex Jones’ Information Wars site (although I don’t like him, I like the title of the site and think it’s accurate in terms of what’s going on).
No link to ATS.
No link to web sites about UFOs or the Federal Reserve/U.S.Treasury stuff.
The only examples used in the ABC article are on the fringe edge of even what’s accepted here at ATS.
That says “spin control” to me.
Original post by jefwane
The MSM is on the defensive. Despite their recent success in helping their chosen cadidate win the Presidency, they know that their credibillity and abillity to influence the more educated masses is waning. Though not as much of an anachronism as the newspapers are their traditional role has been usurped by the internet with it's myriad of multiple-link sites, blogs, and "conspiracy sites".
*snip*
Non-traditional sources of information are biting into the relevance and profitabillity of the MSM. You can probably expect attacks against non-MSM news sources of all types to intensify.
Exellent post. I’m mostly just putting it here so people who missed it have another chance to check it out
Originally posted by Yoda411
If there is an actual attack on ATS from NBC and the so called "Main Stream Media" wants to promote internet censorship, then tell me why one of ATS' biggest sponsors on the website is MSNBC?????
I will tell you why in a reiteration of why I believe they posted this article.
They posted this article to start their own conspiracy; that NBC is after all of you. They just totally played off of all of our paranoid fears in order to gain hits on their website, and increase ad revenue. If you search Google for conspiracy theory websites which link to this article, you will see it is all of them. They all are all swarming with people hissing about how this article was wrong, and therefor flocking the masses of so-called "underground media" over to NBC's website.
In a sense, they proved how paranoid and impressionable conspiracy theorists can be. Therefor, they pulled the right trigger to set off this emotional bomb on this website and others. Who fell for it? All of us.
While the argument for the past several days has been whether or not the article is true, we have completely become enemies within the same cause and overlooked the bigger picture which I have attempted to outline here.
In the end, ratings are the #1 goal of a news website because this translates into revenue.
[edit on 12/17/08 by Yoda411]
1) The way ATS advertising works is such that companies do not directly contract with the site for ad space. Rather, they contract with a middleman called (dang, I forget. The link is at the bottom of every page. Media Mayhem maybe?). That company in turn packages ads and buys space on ATS for them. So MSNBC may have no idea that ATS is one of the hundreds or thousands of sites that Media Mayhem is running their bits on.
Even if they do, advertising on your rival’s space is always a good call – that’s why networks don’t sell ad spots to each other.
2) It’s an interesting theory that ABC (it’s not NBC, btw) was trying to start a conspiracy theory with this story. I don’t think it’s that plausible, but I’m willing to consider it.
That theory though acknowledges what I’ve been arguing all along which is that the story had an ulterior motive and is not the innocent fluff news piece it pretends to be.
This point is also raised in this post by Yoda411 and this post by Yoda411
[reply to post by Kratos1220
I can definitely see the possibility that this is the beginning of MSM's attempt to belittle conspiracy theories, the websites that promote the discussion of them and the people who believe in them. I think they are testing the water to see how people react to this idea and that will determine if and how they proceed with this. I don't think it's nothing, though.
Another excellent post. I’m really impressed that this topic is still getting such quality thought here
Originally posted by blowfishdl
Wow. You all need to read the post by Yoda411 on this related thread. Just wow, you need to read it to believe it. This is seriously the concrete evidence which links the use of conspiracy websites to contribution to mental health issues.
Yoda finally did it!
Okay, I went and read the post. And followed the link to the thread started by the ATS member in question.
This is gonna be kind of hard to discuss, because I do not want in any way to minimize the harm done by an individual, but I also don’t want to judge or denigrate someone whose life ended in such tragedy.
Using this boy as the poster child for harm caused by ATS however just won’t work.
Yes, he was a member; yes he posted here with possibly delusionary statements; yes he even mentioned here that he was suspected as a possible school murder/suicide candidate by school officials.
At least in the thread that Yoda linked to, he does not give any cause to believe that such a tragedy is imminent – if anything, he gives the impression that the school officials should have such a scenario in hand.
During the course of that thread, he is offered derision by one poster (who later recants and apologizes) and support by many. Some do support his assertion that seeing a white owl might be connected with death or ill luck; but one can hardly blame the tragic end of his life on that connection.
I don’t know what sort of reception his ideas had on other sites, or what the nature of those sites is (I don’t think nazi.org is what ABC had in mind as a “conspiracy theory website). But ATS is certainly not implicated in that crime.
(edited to tame bbcode tags)
(edit to add link to Virgin Media to test Net Neutrality thread in Breaking News Forum today)
[edit on 12/17/08 by americandingbat]
reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 03:03 AM by mike dangerously
reply to post by Max_TO
The MSM is being displaced as peoples main source of info Max_TO it's not surprising that ABC and the other networks are trying to discredit ATS and sites like it well aware,outraged and informed people do not make good consumers or mindless drones as for the coming attempts to censor us I say let them come.
The MSM is being displaced as peoples main source of info Max_TO it's not surprising that ABC and the other networks are trying to discredit ATS and sites like it well aware,outraged and informed people do not make good consumers or mindless drones as for the coming attempts to censor us I say let them come.
reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 09:12 AM by Nimrod
reply to post by Yoda411
Master Yoda,
I didn't say stop looking MSM because they manipulate you. I suggested to boycott products annouced in MSM, that call us mentally ill people.
Master Yoda,
I didn't say stop looking MSM because they manipulate you. I suggested to boycott products annouced in MSM, that call us mentally ill people.
reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 09:24 AM by Jkd Up
reply to post by angel of lightangelo
Damn Bro! Now you're but schoolyard bully! I never thought you were that bad... Just misunderstood and VERY vocal..
We're just a few poeple who don't claim to be bad... But the bad don't mess with us...
Good seeing you!
Damn Bro! Now you're but schoolyard bully! I never thought you were that bad... Just misunderstood and VERY vocal..
We're just a few poeple who don't claim to be bad... But the bad don't mess with us...
Good seeing you!
Their OWN words tell the story (Shadow Government, The FED, One-World Government)
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