Planned Parenthood offers gift vouchers, page 3

Originally posted by americandingbat
reply to post by Rintendo

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I wonder if the extent that Planned Parenthood doctors emphasize safe sex and the dangers of STDs might vary depending on what part of the country they're in.

As a woman who has had a lot of my routine gyn checkups at Planned Parenthood clinics in Connecticut, Oregon, and New York, the doctors at the clinics have always asked me about what precautions I take, and emphasized the need for condom use even if I'm in a monogamous relationship and using another form of birth control.

And I'm talking about probably a dozen visits over the course of almost 20 years.

Granted I don't know if they do the same for women who are there for abortion, but I'm sure that they do at the post-surgical checkups (assuming the woman goes, which is not really something they control).

Hi. All GYN exams involve a discussion of methods of birth control. That is not in dispute, and I hope I did not state that they do not discuss the various types of birth control.

What I said was that they fall short in health advocacy.

I have been to Planned Parenthood several times with friends who either couldn't get an appointment quick enough with their own doctor and needed the old "Day After" series of pills (They now have Plan B and pharmacists can give it out), and I went once with someone who needed a pregnancy test (and, yes, was pregnant).

They asked about birth control and suggested condom use in a rather perfunctory manner. As someone who teaches part-time Latin at the high school I can vouch for the listening skills of teens. Suggesting delicately that you use a condom is going to do absolutely nothing to make them use one.

Explaining about the rising rates of HIV/AIDS and other STDs with actual numbers, relating it to Russian Roulette, etc. You know, being a smarty pants and lecturing them makes a greater impact than just saying: we recommend it.

If you are trying to save someone's life, really trying, you need to pull out all the stops.

That is my point. They will spend gazillions of dollars to support Roe v Wade, a case already decided and upheld several times, not to mention turn out en masse for marches that imply that the goal is to save women's lives, but minimal funds to support programs that target teens at risk for sexually transmitted diseases that could take their life quite easily.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

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Okay, you and I are going to have to respectfully disagree. Please understand that I have spent the better part of a decade working with HIV/AIDS patients, so...bear with me. I simply believe as Hillary once said, that it takes a village. It is the responsibility of parents, of teachers, of healthcare workers to educate the young.

It isn't my business to stop you from crossing the street if I saw a bus coming around the corner, but I would. I would do it because I wanted to save your life.

Planned Parenthood does not just model themselves a series of clinics. They have placed themselves in an advocacy position. They submit periodicals all the time about reducing the risk of breast cancer. They choose not to put the same time and devotion into safe sex, I think, because they feel that involves a judgment of some kind.

History will judge us for what we haven't done in the fight against AIDS.

I am not trying to be offensive to you, nor have I said that PP is a corrupt organization as have some. I believe that their intentions are to help women, specifically with their reproductive choices.

My original post was that I wish they would do more to advocate smart choices made by women because an unwanted pregnancy has ceased to be the worst consequence of unsafe sex.

Honestly, I am not trying to talk smack about them, or diminish what good they have obviously done for you. I just see teenagers making reckless choices that will effect the rest of their lives and it pains me.

reply to post by chickenshoes

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I don't believe in hell either as I am a witch. It was just a figure of speech.

I really don't know why I posted with an anti-abortion stance.
I think I was looking to pick a fight. I'm being an idiot. I don't truely believe in an anti-abortion position and I was just being a jerk because lately I have been crapping all over myself about the past with this issue.

I feel guilty that I forced a girl to have an abortion. When I saw her in a store by chance a few months ago with her daughter I felt like s#t. Her daughter was beautiful. I wonder what my daughter/son would have looked like. She even reminded me of how I forced her to have to abortion when I talked to her. Imagine that.... 22 years later she crapped on me about it.

My mom's talk with me about me being an potential abortion in conjunction with the fact that I adopted two babies (who are 10 and 11 now) who could have been abortions is also playing on my mind.

I still tell people that I think early term abortions should be legal as the "fetus" can't survive without the mother and are still parasites at that point.

This is the one area in my life I have no ethics, and have no ground to stand on. I have been listening to a lot of concervative talk show hosts, like Wilkow and Hanity who have been guilting me out. Hanity has been talking about these gift certificates for two days straight calling everyone who has abortions murderers. I guess I have gotten to the point where I feel like I'm a murderer whereas my mother and the woman who gave birth to my two children are not.

I'm guilting myself out and becoming my own enemy and trying to be other people's enemy due to my own guilt.

I'm going to stay out of these conversations in the future because I really have no idea how I feel about this topic any more. I'm confused and depressed about it for the first time in my life.

I'm sorry to crap on you.... I was lecturing myself which is wrong and I should have never posted.

reply to post by chickenshoes

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I have one or two more things to add. What I meant about 3rd world countries was pure sarcasm. It really cost nothing to have a kid, just a healthy kid. One doesn't have to see a doctor. One doesn't have to go to the hospital to give birth. But in our 1st world country view, we must, since infant mortality without those advancements is huge. I was just being a dick by saything that without going to the hospital it wouldn't cost you anything but if the kid died then so what you were gonna kill it anyway. It was a #ty thing to say and a major dig.

I did mean what I said though that adoptive parents to pay the bills for your though.

I made my decisions when I was single. Now that I have kids I don't know if I could have an abortion (yes me talking the girl into it makes me just as responsible... if not more so since she wanted to have it but I'm a very pursasive person at times.) I don't know if I could give one up for adoption either. At least if it was never born I know it isn't out in the world being abused or something. Wow... I just blew my whole adoption thing out the window with that remark.

Anyway, it does shock me that you leave that option open given that you have kids. I suppose everyone should be able to make up their own minds but Wilkow does make a good point. What about the liberties of the unborn. It's easy to ignore that until you're listening to someone rant about how you're a murderer. My mind has never been more messed up on any other topic.

I have clear, consistant, and unwavering views on every topic I post on, on ATS... but this one makes me nuts and is confusing as heck.

reply to post by americandingbat

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I hear you and I am glad that they provided you with all the appropriate information that you deserved from someone in the healthcare profession. I have observed differently, thus my concern.

Understand that I am jaded on this topic because I have had to work in disease outbreak prevention, as well as, having done my stint on the hospice side of the house.

I don't believe in judging someone in the sense of "good" or "bad", but I do believe in saying that someone is an idiot if they don't use a condom. If that makes me a "bad" person...so be it. I'd rather you, your cousin, your husband, your aunt, you best friend from college...everyone think I am a judgmental freak than to think I don't care about you and your life. I want everyone to live as long and healthy a life as possible. I don't need to be cool, to be anyone's friend. I just want to save lives.

And I have heard from teenagers that I did make them think, and I didn't do it by saying that they ought to use a condom. I did it by scaring the crap out of them with pictures I took in Africa.

I am content with all of you thinking I am terrible, but all of the periodicals we put out with "if you care about your partner, you'll wear a condom" or "if you care about your partner, you'll ask them to put on a condom" did not make a dent when we had auditors review our statistics. However, the Russian Roulette ads did.

Fear, unfortunately, works. I wish it didn't. I don't like having to say this stuff to teenagers. It is a total buzzkill for all of us, but having tried it the other way for years and did not see any STD stats come down in our region.

Anyway, please go back to fighting over abortion. Sorry to interrupt with my soapbox and steal the thread with talk of HIV. It was OT and not well done of me.

Take care all!

Originally posted by Rintendo
reply to post by americandingbat

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I hear you and I am glad that they provided you with all the appropriate information that you deserved from someone in the healthcare profession. I have observed differently, thus my concern.

I understand, and that's why I hypothesized in my original post that it might depend on the particular clinic. Or maybe I've just had good doctors.

I don't believe in judging someone in the sense of "good" or "bad", but I do believe in saying that someone is an idiot if they don't use a condom. If that makes me a "bad" person...so be it

Wow, that would be kind of ironic, wouldn't it? Labeling you a "bad person" because of my concern that your message, coming from a doctor, might make the patient feel like they're being judged? On the contrary, I think that HIV education (and yes, scares even) is very important – I just don't think that Planned Parenthood has an obligation to address it beyond what is owed by a doctor to a patient – clear, accurate information.

Anyway, please go back to fighting over abortion. Sorry to interrupt with my soapbox and steal the thread with talk of HIV. It was OT and not well done of me.

Actually, I think arguing about whether PP does an adequate job of patient information is at least as germane to the subject of the original post as arguing the morality of abortion. After all, the article was about PP offering vouchers for medical service – the quality of that service is on topic.

reply to post by JonInMichigan

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One last thought and then I am really, really going back to alien stuff...

To those that do not believe it is "human life" it is a choice. To those that believe it is "human life" it is not a choice, it is life.

I don't believe that the women who argue to keep abortion legal believe that is a baby, nor do I believe that they think that baby feels the pain of the abortion in the manner that the Pro Life groups argue they do. I think women who argue for a safe and legal abortion believe that is it a cluster of cells without conscious thought and without nerve endings.

Basically, I believe their intentions are good. They aren't trying to kill babies or supporting the killing of babies. Simply, they don't believe that the fetus is a baby.

They want to help women, and helping people is good.

I don't believe that those that are Pro-Life want to restrict the choices of women, I believe they want women to make the choices prior to conception occurring. I believe that they want to save the life of a human being, and saving human lives is good.

Both sides can be hypocritical. Both sides can be nasty. BUT...both sides can also be noble.

There is a lot of anger on both sides because each feels that they are saving lives. Anger can lead to name calling, and vitriol and that is what you did.

Still, I think you are a good person who has regrets. Good people get angry. Good people want to take back their mistakes. You have a powerful story and people should listen to the whole story and look at the whole individual when making their counter argument to you. I, too, was almost aborted and am pretty glad it didn't go that route.

I'll put it out there. I am Pro-Life. I think the way we treat meat animals is deplorable, insane, and cruel. I think the way we treat the environment is evil. I think war is evil. I think the taking of life in the womb is a breaking of the sacred hoop of life. I think that the death penalty is state sanctioned murder. I think that when rich nations let poor nations suffer in disease and malnutrition we are breaking our sacred contract with humanity.

OT for a sec...,I think life support systems are anti-nature and wrong.

My point is that I want to be in the business of promoting life in all its forms.

However, I recognize that not everyone will agree with me, and I recognize that they have their reasons. So, I will love the people that don't have abortions and I will love the people that do.

Mostly...people are good. I believe this. Where am I going with this? Ummmm.

Yeah. Be kinder to yourself and be kind to others. You made a mistake, and unfortunately, it is one that you cannot take back. However, you are trying to repent and you have adopted two children that needed parents, so whatever else you think of yourself over this matter...you are trying, and who can ask for more of you?



[edit on 3-12-2008 by Rintendo]

I would have replied sooner, but life, you know...happens.

Finn1916:
My comments about the "meaning of Christmas as it applies to the faith" is just that. Christians celebrate the day as the birth of Christ. I think I also dismissed my religious beliefs leading into that. It is as much their right as a 3000 year old faith, or cult, or whatever you want to call them, to worship and believe as it is my right not to follow them. It does not mean that I dont respect the reasons my father gives when he bows his head to pray over the Christmas feast. I have made my religious beliefs clear throughout this site, just as I have made my respect for anyone that chooses to follow.

chickenshoes:
I didnt miss of dismiss any news. I did read more than one site on this news though, because I dont blindly follow just one media outlet. I even posted multiple sources for the story.

The nation's leading provider of abortions has caused a stir by offering holiday gift certificates that cover the basic health-care services offered at Indiana's 35 clinics, as well as "the recipient's choice of birth-control method."

source

So, when you ask

Not to go on and on, but could you also explain to me how you derived from this quote from the article that Planned Parenthood is promoting Christmas abortions [or even abortions, period]?

I would reflect a similar question back to you and ask why you didnt read both sources? Does it say "for abortions"? No. Does it say "leading provider of abortions"? Yes. So, when the "leading provider of abortions" starts handing out gift certificates for "the recipients choice of birth control methods", I simply do the math and 1+1=2.

--------------------------------------

To continue to respond to the rest of the thread, abortions have always been a hot topic for discussion and argument. It is debated in schools and offices, in politics and breakrooms. Pro-Life or Pro-Choice? It always comes down to choosing sides. After Roe v Wade, it became an explosive topic. Political candidates have made and lost offices on this topic. Pharmaceutical companies make fortunes on pills like the Morning After or Mirena IUD.

There are choices and there are decisions that often haunt people, like JonInMichigan.

I stated in my first reply that I understand some circumstances where an abortion is a life saving or critical medical choice. I understand those. I do not understand killing an unborn baby for convenience, though. Outside of something life threatening, to include rape victims and teens to young to physically birth, the rest of the choices are selfish. You had fun getting pregnant, but all too often the most fun today hurts the worst tomorrow. To quote the adage, "if you do the crime, you do the time".

Looking at the statistics for PP, it is clear to me that they are very much a good outlet of health and well-being for women everywhere. This is a good thing. However, they are most known for and most represented by the reputation for...abortions. So, unless you have gotten a breast exam, PAP, health screening, or anything else they offer, I highly doubt that getting a gift certificate is going to make you think..."oh yea, cheap ob/gyn visit for Christmas."

Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) is the nation’s leading women’s health care provider, educator, and advocate, serving women, men, teens, and families. For more than 90 years, we’ve done more than any other organization in the United States to improve women’s health and safety, prevent unintended pregnancies, and advance the right and ability of individuals and families to make informed and responsible choices.

Planned Parenthood

So, right there is there "about us" statement, they are advocating abortions. Dont tell me that the actual word is not there. This goes along the lines of every other news forum that we have in the matter of reading the truth of the story within the story. "Preventing unintended pregnancy" is just a fancy spin for abortion. Its who they are, what they are about and why they exist. Everything else came later to add a rosey smell to an unwashed garbage can.

Originally posted by wheresthetruth

Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) is the nation’s leading women’s health care provider, educator, and advocate, serving women, men, teens, and families. For more than 90 years, we’ve done more than any other organization in the United States to improve women’s health and safety, prevent unintended pregnancies, and advance the right and ability of individuals and families to make informed and responsible choices.

Planned Parenthood

So, right there is there "about us" statement, they are advocating abortions. Dont tell me that the actual word is not there. This goes along the lines of every other news forum that we have in the matter of reading the truth of the story within the story. "Preventing unintended pregnancy" is just a fancy spin for abortion. Its who they are, what they are about and why they exist. Everything else came later to add a rosey smell to an unwashed garbage can.

Sorry, but I really disagree with your interpretation there.

"Preventing unintended pregnancy" does not mean "ending unintended pregnancies."

It means what it says – that they give access to birth control (including condoms, birth control pills, IUD). They would much rather prevent the pregnancy than the birth – as would any pro-choice person.

It is true that they are the best known advocate for protecting our right to abortion choice – that is part of their original mandate, and it has never stopped being a crucial and resource-draining fight. Despite having been upheld over and over again, anti-choice activists bring attacks against Roe v. Wade and the constitutional right of a woman to make the choice regarding her own body.

But it's not a popular cause – it's emotional, and it's hard to fight for something everyone would rather was unnecessary. So Planned Parenthood has put themselves out on the frontlines on the issue.

Being the nation's largest provider of abortions does not mean that abortions are the larger part of their practice, though. It just means that they (with hundred of clinics throughout the US) provide more abortions than any other single group.

Nor does it mean that people don't know that they provide other services – how do you think that those of us in this thread who have described getting routine care via a Planned Parenthood clinic got there?

They are primarily health care providers for sexual health. Providing and ensuring access to elective abortion procedures is a crucial part of that mandate, not vice versa.

reply to post by Rintendo

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Thanks for the offer, we're working on it. And, thanks for the info on plan B, it is helpful. Unfortunately, many pharmacists in our area refuse to sell it to women.

We're grown people, not a couple of irresponsible teenagers who need to be admonished to use a condom. We use birth control religiously, but birth control can fail. Our son was the result of birth control failure, so please don't attempt to chalk up my pregnancy concerns to a lack of responsibility on anyones part.

We are a long time married couple with small children, and we don't often have an opportunity to have sex. Please don't tell me that you expect my 40 year old husband to abstain from his wife, and visa versa, in order to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.

And, yes many counties in the US have health departments where you can pick up free birth control, but not mine.

They did away with their women's health clinic several years ago. I went there for a while, and one of the older nurses there told me what was to happen. She seemed angry, and I was too.

The county in which I live has an extremely high percentage of Catholics, so i can't help but think that this must have had a bearing on whether they stayed open or not. I don't know that for a fact, but it seems suspicious to me.

Originally posted by JonInMichigan
reply to post by chickenshoes

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I feel guilty that I forced a girl to have an abortion. When I saw her in a store by chance a few months ago with her daughter I felt like s#t. Her daughter was beautiful. I wonder what my daughter/son would have looked like. She even reminded me of how I forced her to have to abortion when I talked to her. Imagine that.... 22 years later she crapped on me about it.

Well, that's a tough situation, and I feel for you. Anyone forced into any situation they don't want to be in may suffer repercussions later on. Evidently, she is experiencing at least some similar feelings to yours. Perhaps you could write her a letter expressing your regret and your apology. Just a thought. It might make you both feel better. I could be wrong.

My mom's talk with me about me being an potential abortion in conjunction with the fact that I adopted two babies (who are 10 and 11 now) who could have been abortions is also playing on my mind.

Totally understandable. I think it would affect me pretty sharply as well.

I still tell people that I think early term abortions should be legal as the "fetus" can't survive without the mother and are still parasites at that point.

My feelings are similar to yours.

This is the one area in my life I have no ethics, and have no ground to stand on. I have been listening to a lot of concervative talk show hosts, like Wilkow and Hanity who have been guilting me out. Hanity has been talking about these gift certificates for two days straight calling everyone who has abortions murderers. I guess I have gotten to the point where I feel like I'm a murderer whereas my mother and the woman who gave birth to my two children are not.

One very good example of why no one should be listening to Hannity and Wilkow.

I'm guilting myself out and becoming my own enemy and trying to be other people's enemy due to my own guilt.

Happens all the time. Guilt is often used as a weapon, and imo, one of our worst enemies. It causes us to act in ways we would never ordinarily even dream of.

I'm going to stay out of these conversations in the future because I really have no idea how I feel about this topic any more. I'm confused and depressed about it for the first time in my life.

I'm sorry to crap on you.... I was lecturing myself which is wrong and I should have never posted.

I definitely didn't feel "crapped on". I could see that you feel very passionately and strongly, and there is nothing wrong in that.

Edited to add: As for adoptive parents paying for the birth, well, that's all fine and good, but at my age, I really don't want to have to wait to find out. Pregnancy takes a very large toll on the body, and is nothing to take lightly. My children were born by C-section. Had I gone out in the wherever and attempted to give birth alone with no intervention by a doctor, neither I nor my kids would be here right now. My daughter and I would both be in a grave, with my husband visiting and putting flowers on our headstones.

[edit on 12/4/2008 by chickenshoes]

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
reply to post by Frankidealist35

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I just dont agree with a Christmas promotion that supports rampant abortion "just because".

I'm a mother of two.... I've had two abortions.

In my life I have NEVER met a woman who would have an "abortion, just because". Regardless of the fact that PP are handing our certificates it wont make pregnant women go "Hey, I can get that abortion for free so I will!! HOORAY!"

Women don't just get abortions for no reason. They don't wake up and go "meh, reckon I'll just abort this damn thing". I'm sure there are some women that do... but there are also some women that punch kittens.

What these "gift certificates" will do, is make services that would be otherwise unavailable to a percentage of the population accessable. And remember, PP don't ONLY do abortions. They offer many services regarding fertility and sexual health.

Whilst I think the term "gift certificate" is probably distasteful, it is the easiest way to quickly describe what PP is proposing.


ETA
Sorry that this was late.. and I realised most of this was covered. That comment just got to me and I couldn't NOT say something.


[edit on 5/12/08 by hexvenus]

reply to post by chickenshoes

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Hi, sometimes I post to more than the intended receiver. If I offended you, I apologize. I was not trying to admonish you. I have this need to put info out there. It is a knee jerk reaction from me at this point. I have witnessed first-hand people dying from AIDS related complications, and I have also had to work on the side of the house where we get to tell people that they have HIV, so if I push condoms...I can't help myself. I really can't. I don't want to see anyone die.

For anyone in need: Plan B is now available at any CVS. It is a company wide policy. So don't think you can't get it at the local drugstore because you live in a conservative town. Call CVS headquarters and they will confirm this. Whether or not it is in stock is variable, but most have ample supply.

Also, since people don't always know (not necessarily you) birth control and anti-biotics don't mix, so double up on protection. Plain latex condoms are the best, and they only protect you from pregnancy, HIV, Hep, and non-contact STDs. You can still get herpes and HPV (which can cause cervical cancer) using condoms.

Sex is not without its risks and most people, unfortunately, don't like to talk about them. Some communities more than others.

On another note...I have had to work with low-income women who do not have the ability to get public health and are in that low income yet too high to get aid gray area. If you or anyone else need information about cheap health care send a U2U.

Now, as for the original OT...I think gift certificates for health services are a bit questionable from a group such as Planned Parenthood where your reputation is based upon (for better or for worse) as an abortion provider. Whether or not you have other services is besides the point. That is what Planned Parenthood is known for.

Campaigns are PR events and they should have known that this would have been spun in such a manner. I don't know who does marketing for them but they should be fired. Of course someone would say: Get your loved one an abortion for Christmas! as a joke.

They should have waited until Breast Cancer awareness month or wrap the PR event around Global AIDS Day, not Christmas. This is just feeding the fire in a country still splintered by partisanship.

Without commenting on the "rightness" or "wrongness" of gift certificates for health services (there is a promotion at the local plastic surgeon's too that is also laughable: get new boobs for Christmas!) it is still a marketing disaster.

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