Mass confusion of Citizenship Rules: Obama is Legit, page 5

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reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 02:45 PM by OldMedic

Whether or not Obama is a citizen does not matter.

What matters is, is he a natural born U.S. Citizen? If he had been born abroad, he would NOT be a natural born US Citizen, and would not be eligible to become the President of the US (unless he was born to a US Serviceman serving overseas in the Panama Canal Zone).

Only a person born in the USA, its territories or possession is considered to be a Natural Born Citizen./

Of course, this does not apply to Obama, since all the evidence (not opinions but real evidence) shows that he was born in Hawaii.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 02:56 PM by coven

reply to post by DarrylGalasso

Please do ask again, as opposed to assuming feigned ignorance.

Methinks perhaps I missed the question. Sorry for you thinking that it was done intentionally.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 02:57 PM by coven

I just wanted to add thanks to Danx for the thorough explanations in my absence.

It's nice to know I'm not the only one researching these rumors for myself!

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 02:58 PM by PlatNuMonk

reply to post by coven

I thought this was common knowledge. How can those balking call themselves Americans when they don't even know the laws of naturalization and citizenship. Maybe that's how Bush destroyed the Constitution.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 03:05 PM by coven

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso

Originally posted by coven
reply to post by DarrylGalasso

that said, he has no liability to answer to any one citizen or organization.

Are all of you people in politics so bold as to think that we mean nothing and you do not have to answer to us?

Edited for grammatical correction

[edit on 12/1/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

This question? I'm sorry I thought it was rhetorical.

First... I'm not a politician. I work for politicians to get them elected...

Second... They shouldn't have to answer to all of you. You should follow proper procedures and PETITION the government. If Obama had to answer Each and every one of you... well All that time spent showing off his Birth Certificate would really detract from the four years he's supposed to be serving as president.

If you really feel this issue is precedent, do more about it than complaining.
Organize, Get your numbers together with signatures on paper and Petition the Office of the president Elect, the Congress, and The Supreme Court to address it. No one is above the law, BUT no one is required to answer to any one person either, by constitutional law they ARE REQUIRED to answer to the halls of Justice.

Welcome to America, As president he still has the same rights as you...

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 03:21 PM by danx

Originally posted by OldMedic
What matters is, is he a natural born U.S. Citizen? If he had been born abroad, he would NOT be a natural born US Citizen, and would not be eligible to become the President of the US (unless he was born to a US Serviceman serving overseas in the Panama Canal Zone).

Your choice of location and situation is quite interesting. However, I don't think you are correct in your assessment regarding the Panama Canal Zone.

Section 303 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (of 1952) rules this matter regarding the Panama Canal Zone, and it's two clauses are as follow:

(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

(b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.

People who were born in the Panama Canal Zone (after 1904) are not US citizens at birth - they are declared US citizens (naturalized).

In my opinion, that doesn't fall under the category of "natural born" citizen, because if it would, every other naturalized US citizen would be able to run for President, and as some other member has pointed out, Arnold, who falls under that category, cannot.

I have no doubt that this is why the Senate introduced a non-binding resolution saying that John McCain is a "natural born" citizen, because they know that legally that is not the case.

Of course, this does not apply to Obama, since all the evidence (not opinions but real evidence) shows that he was born in Hawaii.

I also believe this is the case.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 03:21 PM by Gregarious

[ However, for this to happen, a Constitutional Amendment would have to be added.

edit: fixed link

[edit on 1-12-2008 by danx]
...OR intense sneakyness, lies, and deception! There are those who so claim that this is the case with one Baraq Hussein Mohammed Obama. Now, everyone knows that to be a lawyer, you have to go to law school, where you are taught the fine art of dissolution, prevarication, and innuendo, or deception without actually stating a mistruth. Almost all politicians are lawyers, and the best (or worst) at lies attain political office. The facts are, concerning Baraq and his Chicago gang affiliation, merely concealed and covered up by the socialist press. And with his alleged non-citizen status, they are also remaining silent about this SCOTUS case to make it real easy for the judges to simply ignore it. But they already have demanded a birth cert as of TODAY, and are having a meeting in two weeks to discuss this, which bodes well for truth and justice within our SCOTUS. I am rather sceptical of anything like truth and justice coming from our 'legal' system, but perhaps they will. But I wouldn't bet on it. I think we are all in for a surprise, perhaps today.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 03:29 PM by danx

Originally posted by Gregarious
...OR intense sneakyness, lies, and deception! There are those who so claim that this is the case with one Baraq Hussein Mohammed Obama.

There are those who also claim the Moon is a hologram. Welcome to the Internet.

And with his alleged non-citizen status, they are also remaining silent about this SCOTUS case to make it real easy for the judges to simply ignore it. But they already have demanded a birth cert as of TODAY, and are having a meeting in two weeks to discuss this, which bodes well for truth and justice within our SCOTUS. I am rather sceptical of anything like truth and justice coming from our 'legal' system, but perhaps they will.

I'm guessing that if the Supreme Court rules that Obama is a "natural born" citizen, you will scream foul? And if they don't, justice as been served, right?

You either believe in the Supreme Court, or you don't. If you don't, perhaps you would have more credibility if you presented any bases or legal arguments on why you claim Obama is a non-citizen.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 03:46 PM by Walkswithfish

Don't be fooled people, if these issues could have disqualified Barack Obama it would have happened before the November election.

This is all about creating doubt, a pathetic attempt by the ultra-right who are terrified of Barack Obama, they know what a successful term for him will mean for their ultraconservative agendas and party's future.

Doubt is all they want you to have with or without real proof, with that they can build on in the future, don't fall for it or play their games.

In time the open minded, intelligent people will see enough proof to convince them and move on, then a few will try to keep this going and ultimately find themselves disappointed and completely embarrassed.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 03:56 PM by danx

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Don't be fooled people, if these issues could have disqualified Barack Obama it would have happened before the November election.

Not so fast. While I believe Obama is a "natural born" citizen and eligible for the Presidency, I don't think John McCain is, and he was allowed to run.

I think, regarding this matter in particular ("natural born" citizen), no one checked if the candidates were eligible or not.

For example, in one lawsuit, it is claimed that the Socialist Workers Party Candidate, Roger Calero, was born in Nicaragua.

While I have no doubt that Roger Calero is a US citizen, if he was born in Nicaragua he is not a "natural born" citizen, and yet he was on the ballots - in New Jersey at least, as this lawsuit pertains to that State in particular.

edit:

Róger Calero (born 1969 in Nicaragua) is a Nicaraguan American journalist and one of the leaders of the Socialist Workers Party. (...)

In the 2008 presidential election, Calero was on the ballot in five states, where he received 7,209 votes. (source)

[edit on 1-12-2008 by danx]

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 03:56 PM by jd140

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Don't be fooled people, if these issues could have disqualified Barack Obama it would have happened before the November election.

This is all about creating doubt, a pathetic attempt by the ultra-right who are terrified of Barack Obama, they know what a successful term for him will mean for their ultraconservative agendas and party's future.

Doubt is all they want you to have with or without real proof, with that they can build on in the future, don't fall for it or play their games.

In time the open minded, intelligent people will see enough proof to convince them and move on, then a few will try to keep this going and ultimately find themselves disappointed and completely embarrassed.

And what if they are right?

would it matter to the ultra left?

Get used to it. People have been saying for the last 8 years that Bush should not be the President. Now its Obamas turn.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 04:01 PM by Walkswithfish

Originally posted by jd140

Get used to it. People have been saying for the last 8 years that Bush should not be the President. Now its Obamas turn.

Thank you very much for making my points perfectly clear.

I rest my case.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by Walkswithfish]

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 05:26 PM by christianpatrick

I have read the entire thread and have noticed that after the pertinent official documents re US citizenship law are cut and pasted with links to the original so they can be checked upon, some people still make claims that are contradictory to the official guidelines. Are they too lazy to read, unable to easily understand english, or do they just think that other people are?

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 05:50 PM by JohnnyR

reply to post by Walkswithfish

What case? Just produce the damn birth cert., why is it so hard? Man our country has become a bunch of cowards. And once again, in the span of a decade we're going to have the SCOTUS possibly rule on a Presidential election.

It took me 30 sec to pull out my birth certificate. I just don't understand why Obama won't just put this to rest. Our citizens deserve it, and there are much more important issues to deal with right now.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 06:00 PM by ConservativeJack

Originally posted by JohnnyR
reply to post by Walkswithfish

What case? Just produce the damn birth cert., why is it so hard? Man our country has become a bunch of cowards. And once again, in the span of a decade we're going to have the SCOTUS possibly rule on a Presidential election.

It took me 30 sec to pull out my birth certificate. I just don't understand why Obama won't just put this to rest. Our citizens deserve it, and there are much more important issues to deal with right now.

you are dellusional and acting like a child.

throwing a month long tantrum because you didn't get your way.

at least that's how it looks like to independents or non biased people like me

screams sour grapes

somebody get these people some "WHINE"

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 06:02 PM by CharlesMartel

Does anyone seriously believe that if it were possible to prove that Barack Obama was not eligible to be President, Hillary Clinton would have done it?

If the Clintons could have played this card, they would have!

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 08:07 PM by coven

reply to post by CharlesMartel

and here we have the final answer to the question. The harshest Political family in the world didn't bring this up. Hillary would have been a shoe in if they did. No Clinton's mentioned it... it must not be substantial.

reply posted on 1-12-2008 @ 08:09 PM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by Evisscerator

Perhaps someone already beat me to the punch on this but this debate seems to be getting out of control for no reason. Some simple examination of the US Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5, will clear things up.

Now this part of the Constitution states that "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President"

What this means is that to be President you need to have been born in a United States Territory, such as a State, a US territory like Puerto Rico, or Guam, a US military installation anywhere on Earth (such as John McCain), or a US Embassy in any country. All of these example are considered US soil and anyone born within these territories is considered a natural born citizen.
Now if you weren't a natural born citizen, you could still be President if you were a citizen of the US ( like arnold schwarznegger), but only if you had resided in the USA for 14 years and were a citizen AT THE TIME OF THE ADOPTION OF THIS CONSTITUION.
So... It wouldn't matter if Obama was the son of Uncle Sam and Betsy Ross. Unless he was established as a non-natural born citizen of the United States by 1787, his only other choice would be to be a natural born citizen.
So the question is simple, was he born in Hawaii, or Kenya? That is the only question that needs answering.
It is undeniable that Obama is a citizen, and if he was born in Hawaii the question of dual citizenship with Indonesia is moot because he is a citizen who was born on US soil.

I think this may help some, but if anyone feels I have made a mistake or neglected some facet of this issue, please don't hesitate to bring it to my attention.