Are you a Christian or a Paulian?

Originally posted by mystiq
True service means, not judging, sharing all our worldly goods, and being helpful. It means being the firefighter who rushes in to save the baby at the cost of his own life, and anyone who helps another out of their own substanance versus their surplus. It means living a life that is unconcerned with self. It is the opposite of our capitalistic society.

To "judge not" is to give one's judgment up to the Holy Spirit to judge what is what. In this way, "Christ" is the "judge of the world". It is Christ who has judged the god-of-this-world to be a false impersonator. It is Christ who has judged that this world is not true...not real...has no stable foundation...will end.

When you align with these kinds of judgements, you are not anymore using the same judgment that brought you into the world, wandering around in it. You are not judging when you accept these judgments as your own. To exodus this world, give up more and more of your judgmental thinking to Christ, who will let you know what to think about what. Jesus told parables as he let Christ tell him what to think about the symbols of the world. As you look differently at the world, as you look at it the way Christ looks at it, you will be able to see beyond it...you will be able to see Christ, that is, a world that reflects Christ as much as can be reflected in realms of perception [not knowing].

As you lay down your judgments, Christ will tell you what is the difference between "sheep" and "goats" and between "wheat" and "tares". Sheep and goats look the same to one who judges without discretion. One who judges falsely judges between good and evil. A true judge judges between true and false.



Christ!

Originally posted by mystiq
True service means, not judging, sharing all our worldly goods, and being helpful. It means being the firefighter who rushes in to save the baby at the cost of his own life, and anyone who helps another out of their own substanance versus their surplus. It means living a life that is unconcerned with self. It is the opposite of our capitalistic society.

Here is a true judgment of Christ:

Everything your eyes see is not real or true.
Everything you see is a symbol.
The best a symbol can do is reflect truth by parable, parody, or miracle.
A symbol can point to truth.
A symbol cannot be the truth.
Therefore, make not symbols "truth" or "reality" by judgment [private interpretation of symbols].


Here is another judgement of Christ:

Only truthful thoughts can be shared.


This is because only true thougths can be shared by giver and reciever, without sacrifice of anything.
The giver of the true thought keeps the thought.
The reciever of the true thought also keeps the thought.
This is true sharing.
Nothing in the world is sharable.
If you give one dollar to another, you no longer have the dollar.
So this is not "sharing".
This is sacrificing.
You are teaching sacrifice.
This does not mean that you should not do what you think you need to do at any given moment.
Whatever you can do to reduce suffering is commendable, for the path of Christ is a path of no suffering, mercy, and comfort.
What appears to be a "test" is not of Christ.
The "test" is you, testing your own freedom.
Christ is not about tests.
Christ would lead you away from suffering, away from dreams of death.

What you think you need to do at any given moment, and what the Holy Spirit knows will be helpful, may be two different things.
In other words, you really are not able to "judge" what you should do or not do in terms of helpfulness.
The sooner that judgment is given up to Christ, the sooner your salvation will be realized.

If you give confusing thoughts, you are not really giving anything. And you will recieve as you give. Give true thoughts and you will be given more.

Christ!


[edit on 29-11-2008 by Christ!]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by Christ!]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by Christ!]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by Christ!]

Originally posted by mystiq
reply to post by Grandma

 

Due to those tying him in with Egypt, and Hoagland tying Egypt in with Mars, I believe Jesus represents an off planet, universal savior.

This is an example of "judgement" that does not serve the mind of Christ in terms of salvation. This is not reflective of the truth about Jesus, and so makes his message meaningless. This kind of judgement make your thoughts about Jesus true...when they are not. At this point, you may safely doubt all your thoughts about Jesus and salvation. Learn to doubt them, and open your mind. Then wisdom may come as asked.

Jesus was representative of anybody and everybody. Everybody thinks they are a "man" a "woman" ect. Everybody thinks they are "a carpenter"..."joe sixpack"..."joe the plumber". This is simply not true.

Jesus woke up to the truth by loving the true GoD with all his heart and mind. Jesus prioritized the truth. As he did so, the truth spoke to him. As the truth spoke to him, he allowed truth to speak through him. He taught as he was taught by the Teacher...until he knew himself as the Teacher...as the Master. At that point, he made exodus of the world, and returned to *Our Father*. This is the way. The world is not a place to stay. It is a place to wander and wish. It is a place of experience. It is a place which satisfies curiosity about what is not real. Planets are not real. Other dimensions are not real. It is all magic. The Kingdom of God is not of the world of magic. The Kingdom of Christ is beyond what is an appearance, what is an hallucination, what is a dream in the mind of a sleeping Son of God.

The Teacher of Jesus is Christ...or, true Self [not "higher self"]. There are no "higher self". There is Self. All else is a self-concept, a magical manifestation of another will other than the one will of Self. To "know thySelf" is to know thySelf as Christ. Christ is above and beyond experience in the world. Christ is the totality of everything real, and Lord of all that is real and unreal. To not know thySelf as such is to be "lost", having "lost" your identity. Christ saved a mind that thought it was "son of man"..."ben Joseph"..."a carpenter". Saved, that mind knew itself as Christ.

This is "the way" of Jesus. It is a way that anyone can "follow" if willing. Other ways are not followable because they come from different ways and go different ways. They go to heirarchy. Jesus goes to equality. They go to less than totality. Jesus goes to the whole totality...as Christ is accepted as true Identity. All else is a mask over the face of Christ. All else is a masquerade.

Christ!

[edit on 29-11-2008 by Christ!]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by Christ!]

reply to post by Grandma


Hello, Grandma,

You wrote to mystiq, yet I hope neither you nor mystiq mind my trying to give you my thoughts on your questions.

If it is an all or nothing sort of thing, why then did Jesus come to be born and then teach us wonderful spiritual knowledge and train his disciples (as he knew he was about to die) to be able to spread the gospel as far as they could travel.

I too believe that it is an all or nothing sort of thing. It is the plan for all to return to God.

Jesus came not only for the reasons you list, but specifically for those who belong to the Father, which in my opinion is the Ancient of Days.

Those Jesus came for had become lost... forgetting their mission.

You see, Israel was supposed to be the priest to all the nations... to bring the knowledge of the one true God to all. Jesus alludes to this in John 4:22: You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Anyway, back to the lost ones. Things became corrupted, which should be no surprise seeing how the teachings of some are not understood today as they were meant and intended. People are people and the lost ones forgot their mission.

Jesus was born to be crucified on the cross so by his sacrifice we can reach the Father and be forgiven for our sins.

I don't necessarily see it this way because of what I've already written and because of Jesus' prayer.

In Jesus' great love for humanity he prayed. The entire chapter of John 17 is his prayer I refer to, but there are a few parts specifically that shows his willingness to be responsible for more than just those he came for, he prayed that his disciples:

15 "I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.

16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.

18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.

19 "For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

20 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;

21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

It is in verse 20 that it is revealed Jesus' desire that His mission be expanded to include all those who came to know the Father through their teachings of him.

So either we can be forgiven,
Or it doesn't matter is we sin because we won't be punished by it.

I can understand that this "all or nothing" could be understood this way, but it doesn't exactly work that way because...

As the saying goes we will be living eternity in one of two neighborhoods, it is up to us to decide which neighborhood we end up in.

While this is true in some respects, it neglects to consider what the plan is for those who don't "make it in" this time. It is God's will that none perish and that all will come to know him.

So, our understanding can become limited when we don't also remember what God's stated will is.

I know there are other texts that do not talk about a day of judgment and that would be great. It's just that there would have been no point to Jesus' death and resurrection if we did not need to be SAVED and he needed to defeat DEATH so that we might be able to also.

There will be a day of judgment. When the time comes for the prophesy to be fulfilled for heaven being on earth, those who cannot withstand being in the presence of God's purity (since it consumes as a fire all that is not pure) they will have to go elsewhere for the completion/healing of their souls.

Jesus' life has brought many, innumerable, souls to the Father's presence. Due to that his life has not been in vain.

I would like to see it the way you do, believe me, that would be wonderful but my heart and my spirit tell me something different.

God's love, what can I say... it's boundless.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by L.I.B.]

reply to post by Deaf Alien


The thing that you are forgeting is that people also misunderstand Paul.

Romans 14:14 states that there is nothing inherently good or evil, only to those who believe it to be so. And to those who believe it, it truly is.


That's not relativism, but it is stating that as a Christian, we will run in to plenty of people who believe something to be a sin that we don't. Likewise we will run into people who believe something not to be a sin, that we do! But in the end, it doesn't matter. What matters is walking in Christ and respecting your Brother and his beliefs.

I'd like to see this applied to the Church vs Gay relationship today.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


But they won't. Instead they will quote another verse in Romans.

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, THAT THEY WHICH COMMIT SUCH THINGS ARE WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, BUT HAVE PLEASURE IN THEM THAT DO THEM.

I just had this used against me because I stuck up for gay peoples rights, telling the person to love thy neighbor.

He started going off saying I was as guilty as they were for sticking up for them, and that I gained pleasure in what they do.

This was also after the person thought it was possible I was hiding that I was gay for sticking up for them(I'm married with kids).

Paul is the devil. Anyone who follows Paul doesn't understand Paul.

reply to post by badmedia

I just had this used against me because I stuck up for gay peoples rights, telling the person to love thy neighbor.

He started going off saying I was as guilty as they were for sticking up for them, and that I gained pleasure in what they do.

This was also after the person thought it was possible I was hiding that I was gay for sticking up for them(I'm married with kids).

Paul is the devil. Anyone who follows Paul doesn't understand Paul.

ROFL !!!

Thank you for the comedic relief!

Come on, admit it... you love getting these accusations, don't you?

Either that or the understandings of the universal laws weren't given to you. In which case, I should probably retract my laughter.

But still... all your talking about the hypocrisy of not following Jesus!

Ho! Too funny!

Originally posted by L.I.B.
ROFL !!!

Thank you for the comedic relief!

Come on, admit it... you love getting these accusations, don't you?

Either that or the understandings of the universal laws weren't given to you. In which case, I should probably retract my laughter.

But still... all your talking about the hypocrisy of not following Jesus!

Ho! Too funny!

Love getting them? I'd say not. But they do allow me to point out where they are wrong. I do enjoy breaking peoples stupid stereotypes. If everyone agreed with me, I would leave and go where people didn't agree with me.

Of course I am talking about the hypocrisy of the church and paul. Yes, I realize it's part of gaining understanding, yes I realize that without evil you can never understand good, yes I realize polar opposites are required. And so on. But those things are only to gain understanding, not the actual understandings or truth themselves. While nothing makes a white dot stick out more than a black background, the black background is still NOT the white dot.

I don't really get what is so funny about it.

I have followed this thread a bit, but declined to post until now. I view all of this talk against Paul as rubbish. Saul had a powerful salvation experience on the road to Damascus, and became a fervent advocate of Christ as the Apostle Paul until the day he died. The remaining eleven Apostles chose Matthias, but Christ chose Paul.

2 Peter 3

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I have followed this thread a bit, but declined to post until now. I view all of this talk against Paul as rubbish. Saul had a powerful salvation experience on the road to Damascus, and became a fervent advocate of Christ as the Apostle Paul until the day he died. The remaining eleven Apostles chose Matthias, but Christ chose Paul.

So apparently, when Jesus said do not do these things, he meant everyone except Paul. Paul is special, and we should take what Paul says to do over what Jesus says to do? Because we can't understand Jesus if we don't understand Paul.

So when Jesus says the only way to the father is through him, what he really meant is the only way to the father was through Paul and the church/bible, then to Jesus and then to the father.

And clearly, when Jesus talked about the people being the authority, he meant only the Christians. So when the Christians are in authority, thats when things are right. Those other people who took things literally and built physical churches in place of spiritual churches - they were wrong, but not Paul, he is right to do those things. So long as a Christian tells you to sin in the name of Jesus, thats ok. No, it doesn't matter that Jesus didn't do these things, it doesn't matter that he told you not to do these things - as long as you do it in his name, and in his image - well thats AOK.

I guess I'm just a fool for following Jesus's example. Obviously Jesus was meant to be a sacrifice so that Paul and the church could rise to power. How could I have not seen that before.



[edit on 2-12-2008 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Did you catch the part of verse 16 above that goes

in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

?
I think that pretty much explains it.

Your adversarial, divide and conquer approach is familiar to me. Its a favorite of the defeated foe. The work is finished, the devil lost. Time is short for him, so he tries to sow all the doubt and fear he can in what's left. A thousand years chained in the pit before a final plunge into the lake of fire isn't much to look forward to.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I think that pretty much explains it.

Your adversarial, divide and conquer approach is familiar to me. Its a favorite of the defeated foe. The work is finished, the devil lost. Time is short for him, so he tries to sow all the doubt and fear he can in what's left. A thousand years chained in the pit before a final plunge into the lake of fire isn't much to look forward to.

So if the work is finished and the devil lost, then why is there still so much evil in the world? Why are people being controlled by fear rather than a free people with understanding?

Why can nobody tell me WHY I am supposed to ignore the faults of the church, the wide path it tells people to follow when Jesus and my own understandings tell me that is how I will know who is true and isn't? I'm not supposed to look and see who runs around in the name of Jesus, I'm supposed to look at their fruits/actions.

It's as if people are holding onto this dream wide path of just accept and all is ok, rather than walking the narrow path of the example by Jesus. Is that not deception?

Tell me, is it not true that the rich man who approached Jesus, to which Jesus told him it was easier to get a camel through the head of a needle than to get a rich man into heaven not going to get in according to the church? Does Jesus not tell this man to go give away his riches and walk the path? And is it not true that this same rich man, if he goes to the church, they will tell him to just accept Jesus and all is forgiven. So why does Jesus teach 1 thing, and the church teach another. And why am I supposed to ignore this?

And what of the wars the church has committed in the name of Jesus? All the killing, all the destruction. Do the dark ages ring a bell? Where does Jesus teach this is the way to spread things? Never. Not a single time. Am I to believe that Jesus would do anything other than point them out for the hypocrisy they committed by breaking the commandment of thou shall not kill? God himself comes to earth and never once breaks a commandment, shows people the example. And yet I am supposed to believe that those who hypocritically break commandments are true followers? Those who do the very things Satan is said to try and get people to do?

Sorry, but I reject that. These people are the modern day pharisees. The same people who killed Jesus. Paul says Jesus appears to him on the side of the road, as L.I.B. pointed out to me, Jesus says he will appear as a vision and in dreams to people.

How does the church even gain all the power it has during the time when true Christians are supposed to be persecuted before the 2nd coming when we are told Satan has all the power on earth.

Is it not the goal of Satan to bring about a 1 world religion, and is it not also the goal of christianity to do the same? And how has the church gone about getting this done in the past? By understanding and spreading truth? No, by killing anyone who didn't go along. This is not the way of Jesus.

So many contradictions between Jesus and Paul.

The truth can't be divided. Only manipulated and distorted with additions. The only reason is even possible to divide the church and Jesus is because the teachings do not match. In this case, I have to believe and have faith that Jesus/God and my own personal experiences/teachings are the correct way.

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.


19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

The entire chapter is relevant here. Tell me does the church not do exactly these things?

Why does the church lead people on paths of destruction?

How does the good tree of Jesus bring forth the corrupted fruit of the church?

Why am I supposed to over look their fruits?

Does the church not do many works in his name, but actually do so in sin because it kills rather than enlightens?

And we can even keep going, this is just the highlights reel. A few more to add is the image of Jesus not following description and being replaced by someone they think looks physically beautiful. Guess Jesus wasn't perfect enough for them. Guess God made a mistake there. Wouldn't want people to get the idea image isn't important would we. Or hey, how about the inquisitions or WW2. Oh yeah, that was surely following the path of Jesus.

Don't see people going to church being persecuted, the president of the US claims to be christian. But we sure do see people who actually try to teach and promote peace and the things Jesus actually stood for trampled on.

The church is going to have it's house blown down because it is not built on the rock of truth. It has distorted the message, lead people away from Jesus and on a path of death, destruction and servitude from day 1.

And why am I accused as being bad because I say Jesus is the true path, and by getting people to follow his example? What have I said that goes against Jesus?


[edit on 3-12-2008 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


The church is made up of sinners. Sinners sin. Christ knew this, and knew what was to come. Railing against it and rejecting the church and the Bible isn't going to change anything. Neither will blaming Paul. The whole Bible points to Jesus. So did Paul. The sin nature of man, under the influence of the devil, is to blame for all the evil done throughout history, for whatever reason it was claimed to be done.

Matthew 7:21-23, which you quoted above, should be all you need to know to understand what I'm getting at. The church will be sifted according to the parable of the wheat and the tares.

Btw, it was God's will that Jesus die on the cross. God allowed Jesus to be killed, His own Son, so that we might be saved.

Matthew 18

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

[edit on 3-12-2008 by Icarus Rising]

reply to post by badmedia

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by L.I.B.
ROFL !!!

Thank you for the comedic relief!

Come on, admit it... you love getting these accusations, don't you?

Either that or the understandings of the universal laws weren't given to you. In which case, I should probably retract my laughter.

But still... all your talking about the hypocrisy of not following Jesus!

Ho! Too funny!

Love getting them? I'd say not.

I don't really get what is so funny about it.

Really? You don't get what's so funny about it? Humor is never quite so funny if it has to be explained.

It is fortunate for you though. It is far more frequent for people's karma to play out at such a distance from their actions that they don't know why what is happening to them happens.

Let's see, you were commiserating about an accusation received. (It's not the first time this commiserating on accusations received has been done.)

Yet, immediately after your complaint, you again placed an accusation and judgment.

Make an accusation, receive an accusation, make an accusation, receive an accusation.

See how that works?

So, you must love receiving accusations. Otherwise you wouldn't keep making them. Especially in the light of my knowing that you do know that the accusatory spirit is satanic. At least you have said so.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Really? You don't get what's so funny about it? Humor is never quite so funny if it has to be explained.

It is fortunate for you though. It is far more frequent for people's karma to play out at such a distance from their actions that they don't know why what is happening to them happens.

Let's see, you were commiserating about an accusation received. (It's not the first time this commiserating on accusations received has been done.)

Yet, immediately after your complaint, you again placed an accusation and judgment.

Make an accusation, receive an accusation, make an accusation, receive an accusation.

See how that works?

So, you must love receiving accusations. Otherwise you wouldn't keep making them. Especially in the light of my knowing that you do know that the accusatory spirit is satanic. At least you have said so.

Is there no difference between false "accusations" and true ones now? I had false accusations pushed on me, I based my opinions on what has been said and the level of thinking.

Am I no longer supposed to have an opinion on what things are now?

Was Jesus wrong to call the pharisees hypocrites? Is that the reason Jesus had the accusations pushed against him? After all, if he had not pointed out the truth and accused them of being wrong, they would have had no reason to kill him would they?

There is a big difference in having an opinion and judging others.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
The church is made up of sinners. Sinners sin. Christ knew this, and knew what was to come. Railing against it and rejecting the church and the Bible isn't going to change anything. Neither will blaming Paul. The whole Bible points to Jesus. So did Paul. The sin nature of man, under the influence of the devil, is to blame for all the evil done throughout history, for whatever reason it was claimed to be done.

Matthew 7:21-23, which you quoted above, should be all you need to know to understand what I'm getting at. The church will be sifted according to the parable of the wheat and the tares.

Btw, it was God's will that Jesus die on the cross. God allowed Jesus to be killed, His own Son, so that we might be saved.

It was not god's will that Jesus die on the cross exactly. That is not a false statement, but the point of it all was not for him to die on the cross.

Jesus came to be the example of how to live without sin, so that those who follow in his path could find the way to heaven. He did so knowing he would die on the cross doing so, and in dieing on the cross he also fulfilled the life without sin. Only by following in his example are you saved, which are what people tell him.

But the church tells people all they have to do is believe that Jesus is god and lived without sin. They do not tell people the important thing was to live by his example. Even worse, they have used the false idol of Christ/Cross as a way of leading people away from example.

The pharisees is the key to all this. These were people who followed the law completely. They were very moral people and some were even killed for their beliefs. But they lacked understanding of what it meant to follow the laws. And because they lack understanding they inadvertently broke commandments themselves. For example, killing people who sinned. They only focused on the sinner, and did not realize that they were sinning by their own actions. This is why Jesus called them hypocrites.

So god so loved the world that he came in the form of Jesus to show people how to live. So that you might be saved by following his example. He did so knowing full well how he would be treated. That is the true glory of Jesus.

The real church is inside people. It is built with knowledge and understanding. And that knowledge and understanding will be present in both heaven and the earth. It is the only thing you can "take with you". The physical church is not the true church. The church of Paul takes everything Jesus said and did into the most literal and basic meaning, and puts the focus on the physical rather than the understanding the example. They worship the idol Jesus, rather than the path he showed, and have replaced that path with a path that requires to only believe Jesus = God.

As a result, a lack of understanding of Jesus has erupted against the church, against Jesus and so on. And those in the church are generally hypocrites in their actions(supporting wars, and such). The whole "just war" christian theory is a lie. Jesus showed people there was never an appropriate time to kill, even when faced with death himself. He said do not fear those who are powerless after death, but this entire "just war" deal is based on fear of those who have power.

If you kill evil, you do not rid the world of evil, you simply replace the evil with an even greater evil in yourself.

So when you say those things, yes they are true. But that isn't the issue. The issue is the understanding of why those things happened the way they did, and it surely was not just to fulfill some prophecy, it was done because it needed to be done.

We surely aren't perfect, but over time we can walk that path. We will have to. We may fall in the ditch from time to time, but that is ok - you will be helped and picked back up. You are forgiven the moment you learn the lesson for your mistakes and do not make them anymore, because at that point it is no longer an issue as you will not sin anymore. You have to take it 1 day/thing at a time. My big vise at the moment is gluttony. I love me some food.

Ok Badmedia ..we all get what your saying about the Churches ..and the hypocrites in them ...it is TRUE >...and so what has that got to do with you ? Will rambling on and on about how corrupt the Church is ..is it in anyway GLORIFYING THE NAME OF THE LORD or is it BUILDING UP or INSPIRING your sisters and brothers in Christ No ...in fact even though I agree that the Church is in serious apostacy and that there is possibly more wickedness going on in church than there is on the streets ..it should upset you (like it does all of us) but it really should not be something you need to yell from the rooftops all day long every day ... ..in fact if it bothers you so very much what THEY ARE DOING then go to them personally and tell them quietly (One on one) ....(Do as the word says ..do not take it before a court (Or the world) and air their dirty laundry out for all unbelievers to see .....because dont worry they see ....and by yelling it out here so much you are giving satan even more ammunition against his anointed ones (those who really are trying to walk the walk and talk the talk ) ....

They (The Church peoples ) are SICK (Thats how I see it ) they need your PRAYERS not your condemnation ......and you are guilty of Judging them ..OUTLOUD even ...really you ought to be ashamed ..because they will be standing right next to YOU I am sure when they receive their judgments ..and I bet you that you will be found guilty of the very same things ...
(I am just as guilty of this sometimes too .so I am also preaching to myself here)

While you condone the behaviours of those who live outside of knowing JESUS CHRIST ...you condemn those who are trying to live for CHRIST >

Please tell me how that is something EDIFYING to the body ? >.....

I am not trying to make you mad at me ...I just cannot stand to see all this cutting down of eachother (Believer with believer) ...it is not EDIFYING it is not bringing any GLORY to the LORD and it is certainly NOT helping to bring nonbelievers to the Lord Jesus Christ .....in fact they snicker with you (you are aiding in the devil getting a good laugh and a snicker about how bad believers are ) ....he loves to ACCUSE the believers in Christ ..Who is the ACCUSER of the BRETHREN ?? satan is ...dont be a part of it ...

But you have said a few times that you do not believe that Jesus is the only way ...and you really do not believe in the word of God too much (Especially if you think Paul was a false prophet) so maybe none of the above actually applies to you ....if not then just skip my post ...


I dont know ..but I know that you should not preach to Christians not to judge if you yourself are HARSHLY JUDGING the Church ...(Your doing exactly what your preaching to others NOT TO DO ) ...........(even if they do deserve it ..they are certainly not doing as Christians should do )but you know ALL OF US FALL SHORT of that one ........ and you know that they will have THEIR DAY so you know they will not go unpunished .(neither will we go unpunished if we play a part in their condemnation) ..
yes sometimes we need to point some things out to those who are not doing right ....but there is a right way and a wrong way to do that you know that ..

Just remember (EVERYONE) that how you judge is exactly how you will be judged ..so just think about that before posting ...(Yes I know I need to also practice what I preach too ..and I am trying ..at least all of us should at least try harder to post in a spirit of love when we do have to go there with eachother) ..............



Remember that two wrongs will not make a right ...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Ok Badmedia ..we all get what your saying about the Churches ..and the hypocrites in them ...it is TRUE >...and so what has that got to do with you ? Will rambling on and on about how corrupt the Church is ..is it in anyway GLORIFYING THE NAME OF THE LORD or is it BUILDING UP or INSPIRING your sisters and brothers in Christ No ...in fact even though I agree that the Church is in serious apostacy and that there is possibly more wickedness going on in church than there is on the streets ..it should upset you (like it does all of us) but it really should not be something you need to yell from the rooftops all day long every day ... ..in fact if it bothers you so very much what THEY ARE DOING then go to them personally and tell them quietly (One on one) ....(Do as the word says ..do not take it before a court (Or the world) and air their dirty laundry out for all unbelievers to see .....because dont worry they see ....and by yelling it out here so much you are giving satan even more ammunition against his anointed ones (those who really are trying to walk the walk and talk the talk ) ....

Because the true church that Jesus speaks to Peter about is inside you. The physical church is a misdirection used to give people power over you. The true church is based on earth and in heaven. It is a church built out of knowledge and understanding - the only things you can take with you. These are the same things that are considered to be rich in the eyes of god, this is no coincidence. The physical church is only present in the physical on earth. You can't take the physical with you, but you do take the knowledge, understanding and wisdom with you.

The physical church is built by the ruler of this world - Satan. As a way of keeping you from building a true church inside. That is why Jesus told them not to make leaders of themselves, that is why he told them not to give themselves titles. Because they would be setting up a physical hierachy/church. This is not the kingdom of Jesus, he said so. This is the kingdom of Satan. Jesus says he will appear in the form of a vision or dream to people, not in the physical. Only Satan will appear in the physical as a "good person". It boggles my mind how people can accept this physical church as representative of christ. Especially considering they don't even show his true image.

I must speak the truth. It is the only reason I stayed here. While I do not expect anyone to believe me when I say that, it is my reason for it.

They (The Church peoples ) are SICK (Thats how I see it ) they need your PRAYERS not your condemnation ......and you are guilty of Judging them ..OUTLOUD even ...really you ought to be ashamed ..because they will be standing right next to YOU I am sure when they receive their judgments ..and I bet you that you will be found guilty of the very same things ...
(I am just as guilty of this sometimes too .so I am also preaching to myself here)

While you condone the behaviours of those who live outside of knowing JESUS CHRIST ...you condemn those who are trying to live for CHRIST >

Please tell me how that is something EDIFYING to the body ? >.....

I am not trying to make you mad at me ...I just cannot stand to see all this cutting down of eachother (Believer with believer) ...it is not EDIFYING it is not bringing any GLORY to the LORD and it is certainly NOT helping to bring nonbelievers to the Lord Jesus Christ .....in fact they snicker with you (you are aiding in the devil getting a good laugh and a snicker about how bad believers are ) ....he loves to ACCUSE the believers in Christ ..Who is the ACCUSER of the BRETHREN ?? satan is ...dont be a part of it ...

But you have said a few times that you do not believe that Jesus is the only way ...and you really do not believe in the word of God too much (Especially if you think Paul was a false prophet) so maybe none of the above actually applies to you ....if not then just skip my post ...


I dont know ..but I know that you should not preach to Christians not to judge if you yourself are HARSHLY JUDGING the Church ...(Your doing exactly what your preaching to others NOT TO DO ) ...........(even if they do deserve it ..they are certainly not doing as Christians should do )but you know ALL OF US FALL SHORT of that one ........ and you know that they will have THEIR DAY so you know they will not go unpunished .(neither will we go unpunished if we play a part in their condemnation) ..
yes sometimes we need to point some things out to those who are not doing right ....but there is a right way and a wrong way to do that you know that ..

Just remember (EVERYONE) that how you judge is exactly how you will be judged ..so just think about that before posting ...(Yes I know I need to also practice what I preach too ..and I am trying ..at least all of us should at least try harder to post in a spirit of love when we do have to go there with eachother) ..............

Remember that two wrongs will not make a right ...

I do not care about the church at all. None, zero. I only care about the people who are being sucked in by it. And the only way to cure these people is with the truth. Jesus does not "kill" his enemies as the church does, he enlightens them and makes them understand/friends. He doesn't kill the demons he runs across on earth, he heals them with truth and understanding. That is the only way to heal the sick.

I also do not get mad at people. At all. I get frustrated from time to time, no doubt. But never angry. I understand that people do not understand. There is nothing wrong with not understanding, especially when so many are deceived. I realize when someone calls me a name or something they aren't really talking to or about me, they are merely talking to or about their perception of me.

I see lots of people who honestly want to do the right and good thing. And I see a church that keeps them from it. What else am I to do but point it out? I do not judge these things, I would never try to force a church to be shut down, or force a point of view down. For me to do so would be me doing the same thing the church does. I do not judge people, but I must speak the truth. Jesus said himself to look at their fruits, and that is what I am looking at.

Remember, an error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to fix it. It's just a learning point until then.

I think there is a big difference in having an opinion on a topic and judging someone as well. I do not punish people for their views or anything like that. When you kill someone for their sins, or punish someone for their sins, that is what I consider to be judging someone.

The Church has people in it Badmedia ...they are us years ago ...most of them still babes ....and still on milk ..(well some have not even really gotten that much) .....The Church has its purpose just like Pharoh had ...Pharoh was used by God to bring GLORY to the Lord ....how do you know that the Church wont be used for that same reason or something similar someday ?...(History repeats itself) .. ....The Lord sent me to church a few times ....I learned ALOT ....I was even blessed to have met a wonderful teacher in the Church .......and several wonderful believers ...

It is mostly some of the teachers and preachers who are the WOLVES and they have the sheep asleep .....dont you think we should be praying for them instead of painting them all as bad people .And trying to wake them up >?


And yes the Church is inside of the believers ..but there are believers still in some of those Church Buildings Badmedia ...and they are not all wolves in sheeps clothing ....and they dont all murder and maim and yell KILL THEM >.(We are not in the DARK AGES ) where are you getting all that anyway >??

Sure Bush was hollering kill the evil doers etc and some Christians were led astray in thinking they should back him on that ...but you cannot sit here and say all Christians were on his side about that ..(I sure wasnt ) ..

I have not been a part of a church in years ..but some people feel led to stay in Church and they may have a reason for being there ..they may be missionaries sent by God to help lead those who have gone astray to a real personal relationship to Christ ...

reply to post by Simplynoone


I think there is a difference in people who gather around as equals and discuss issues where they try to bring about understanding, and a Church where the preacher gets in front of people and reads directly from the bible skipping around from verse to verse to paint the issue the way they want it to appear as a way of leading people around.

But the mainstream lie of why Jesus did what he did is kept that way by the church, and throughout history has done so by force.

People are completely rejecting Jesus because of the church. Not to mention the number of people in church who don't really get it themselves. The impression people are given about Jesus is that it's just a bunch of hypocrisy, exactly what Jesus was against. I know this because I was the exact same way. All anyone see's and is allowed to see about Jesus is the hypocrisy of the Church. That it is all about submission and ignorance, when Jesus stood for freedom and understanding.

You mention GWB, but it is that over and over throughout history.

Is it any wonder why people have a bad feelings towards Christians when this is done? What else should I do but point these truths out? How am I doing what is right by ignoring these things?

So I point out that what the Church does is not what Jesus is about. So that hopefully people can understand the difference.

I've been on the other side of the fence, and I know what set me straight. And it had alot to do with understanding and seeing the church for it's hypocrisy, and seeing that these are exactly the kinds of things Jesus warned people about and was against. I never really realized what Jesus was actually saying, all I could ever see was how boring and hypocritical church and Christians were.


[edit on 4-12-2008 by badmedia]