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It is undeniable that without the Apostle Paul, Christianity is unlikely to have achieved its expansion into the classical world, its move away from strict Jewish law, and even its modern make-up. The Pauline epistles have also been used as the basis for much doctrine. For many, Paul’s words, not Christ’s, are the origin for the non-ordination of women, the celibacy of priests and even homophobia.
Paul's Letters were the first, written at least 20 years after Jesus's execution. St. Paul's theology, and the interpretation it cast on events recalled about Jesus's career, played a significant role in shaping the doctrines of the Paulian-Christian Church. Yet, this man was not Jesus, nor was he G0D. For that reason, those denominations of Christianity which believe in the inspiration and authority of Paul are called "Pauline", or "Paulian". Often more than half of what they hold as doctrinal truth comes from Paul rather than Jesus. Though most favors of Christianity are Paulian, The Christo-Paulian church has squelched most of The Gospel of Thomas because too many elements in them didn't fit in with doctrines and precepts which the early Church had crafted up to that time. In other words -- Politics.
During the celebration of Christmas people worship the birth of the many pagan sun gods: Mithra, Baal, Horus, Ra, Zeaus etc., because during this time, the ancients declared that "God's sun" had in the winter solstice "died" for three days and was "born again" on December 25th. But little recognized on this list is the one called Sol. He was said to die on Dec. 21 and to be reborn on Dec. 25. Sol, as in solar, could have been where the term Saul came from as Pol (Apollo & Apollonius) seems to become the name Paul.
During the time of Christ, Apollonius came to be the best known healer, prophet and religious authority in the known world. born: AD 2, died: AD 98 or 99 which is similar to time of Paul. The Greek Apollonius (named after the Greek sun god Apollo) was devoted to discovering and understanding all of the secret doctrines of all of the world's religions which would explain if he was Paul, why Paul compiled all cultures into one tree of knowledge of good and evil
The moment that Christianity was adopted by the political power structure of the Roman Empire it stopped being a pacifist Gnostic cult, and became a methodology for control. The racism that was inherent within an empire that thought nothing of enslaving foreign peoples has continued within the Roman Catholic Church right up to the present day.
... using the teachings of Saul/St.Paul the Holy Roman Catholic Church developed a manipulative dogma of the heroism of victimhood that gave the failing Roman Empire a new strength.
If the seed ideas of Christ were allowed to merge with Pagan Nature religions, then the original dreams of unity, brotherhood, charity, equality, mutual compassion, and ultimately union with God of early Gnostic Christianity might create a Global Village, instead of a New World Order.
Originally posted by saint4God
Paul answers your question two thousand years in advance:
"I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power." - 1 Corinthians 1:10-17
Originally posted by badmedia
If Paul is teaching things which go against the teachings of Jesus then he is in fact trying to divide the house.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by badmedia
If Paul is teaching things which go against the teachings of Jesus then he is in fact trying to divide the house.
Yes, and it is fun to play with 'if's but isn't the case as demonstrated by the verse I'd quoted among others.
[edit on 26-11-2008 by saint4God]
Originally posted by badmedia
Well, actually it's not even an "if", it's a fact as pointed out by the original poster that Pauls teachings do in fact go against the teachings of Jesus.
So apparently, by your own agreement to the "if", as the "if" is true, you are agreeing.
Originally posted by saint4God
Negative, but nice try (edited so that it could not be possibly misconstrued as you have done here). The original poster has not established that Paul goes against the teachings of Jesus. There are many inaccuracies, too numerous for the 10,000 letter maximum to clarify.
Jesus came to fulfill the law. By showing the proper way to follow it. If Paul is teaching things which go against the teachings of Jesus then he is in fact trying to divide the house.
Originally posted by badmedia
Then I shall divide your house.
Originally posted by badmedia
I shall follow Jesus and not Paul. If your house was built on truth and understanding, then I would not be able to divide your house. Only the house that is built on lies and deception falls.
Originally posted by badmedia
Matthew 7
28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Romans 13
1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Originally posted by badmedia
And how about the huge contridiction in what follows for Paul.
2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
If there is no power but that of god, where do these people get the power to resist?
Originally posted by badmedia
Jesus taught people they were the authority.
Originally posted by badmedia
God is internal.
Originally posted by badmedia
Paul teaches people the powers are the authority.
Originally posted by badmedia
God is external and any powers that exist are those of god(I'm sure Satan with all his power would love for you to believe this).
Originally posted by badmedia
Jesus brings free will, Paul brings slavery and submission.
Originally posted by azzllin
If people who follow Paul are called Paulians, then why are Christians not known as Jesusians?
Originally posted by badmedia
Think not that I come in peace, I come with the sword of truth just as Jesus did.
Originally posted by badmedia
Tell me, in just what I quoted - if Paul is not teaching against the words of Jesus, then explain this.
Jesus tells us not to fear those who only have power over us to kill us. But instead to fear the power beyond that of god.
Paul tells us that any power anywhere is the power of god, and that we should obey and fear.
Originally posted by badmedia
So tell me, which do you follow? Are you a follower of Jesus, or are you a follower of Paul?
Originally posted by saint4God
The authority over some things, not authority above God nor equal to Christ.
Originally posted by badmedia
God is internal.
This isn't what Christ said.
True power does come from God. Satan believes his power is independant of God's control, which of course is not true. Reading the whole book gives good clarification to these points.
Originally posted by badmedia
Jesus brings free will, Paul brings slavery and submission.
Originally posted by saint4God
Careful, your pride is showing.
Paul explains that God's power is prevalent in rightous leadership, to recognize it, to see it, to obey it. God is the water, proper leadership is the pipes that run to your house. Remember that these are letters Paul had written to the churches to help them resolve issues with divisiveness in the body of the church.
Paul already stated who I follow (and other believers) 2,000 years ago, please read again Corinthians chapter 1.
Originally posted by badmedia
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Originally posted by badmedia
Actually having a vision of your own as Jesus says you will, and learning from the holy spirit provides more clarification than reading a book will.
Originally posted by badmedia
Part of free will is the power to give it away. Jesus did not give people free will in what he taught, but instead showed them how not to give it away.
Originally posted by badmedia
Paul tries to get people to submit their will to the church, and the men and "leaders" that have been set up. The church - who has the power to judge men and forgive them, instead of christ and does everything the anti-christ/Satan is said to want. When Jesus said do not make yourself leaders, because the only leader is Christ.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by badmedia
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
This is not the only place God is.
"Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." - John 18:36
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21
Notice also that this is a conditional, God does not live side by side with the sin in a person's heart or is present with evil.
Originally posted by badmedia
You're assuming I'm not in communication with God. I would recommend not doing so for your own integrity's sake and the integrity of that which you claim to represent.
We are to follow Christ's example when we lead:
"Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet." - John 13:14
Originally posted by badmedia
I didn't say it is the only place God is. If god is inside me, then he is also inside you. If I do not love thy neighbor, then I do not love god. If I kill my neighbor, then I have sinned against god. And so on.
The part where he is inside you is merely your connection to him.
Originally posted by badmedia
A connection required for a personal relationship with god, and a connection that paul keeps hidden - as you and many others prove, with his change in the understandings. That our connection with god is through power and following those who hold the power on earth.
Originally posted by badmedia
I assume I understand your words correctly. If I do not understand your words correctly, please correct me. You said just above god was not internal, as such how can you be in communication with God if you do not realize this understanding? In truth, everyone is always in communication with god, it's opening your mind to see it that makes the difference. Footprints in the sand.
Originally posted by badmedia
John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
But you are telling me to follow Paul's example.