It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Are you a Christian or a Paulian?

page: 19
<< 16  17  18   >>

log in


posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 09:58 PM

Originally posted by L.I.B.

Jesus said: No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. John 3:13

This furthers my point, which says that everything in the world descends from heaven, as in "falls" from heaven..voluntarily. It is nOt heaven, but rather, derives from an antithetical concept of heaven. So, if heaven is "Christ", then what "descends" must be *anti christ*. If heaven is "Spirit and Truth" then what descends must be flesh and false. If heaven is "Paradise", then what "descends" must be "hell". And so there is a Freudian slip in the bible which says that Jesus "preached to those in hell". The last thing consciousness wants you to know is that it's world is hell, and does not exist but by the power of belief.

Heaven is the true "world", and hell is some kind of "underworld" posing as "the world". It calls itself "the universe" as if there was nothing else beside it. Ha! What a joke. What does not exist posing as reality itSelf! Ha ha! The world will end when we can learn to take a joke. Otherwise, if taken too seriously, you may find a joker in your face saying things like, "Why so serious?"

As such, Jesus was playing two diabolically opposite roles: Christ and anti-christ. Everything in the world is "he who descended from heaven", for the world is a self-concept opposed to Self [Christ, reality]. This is another way of explaining the parable of the prodigal Son. What left the Kingdom of God returns to the Kingdom of God, and only what left the Kingdom of God returns to the Kingdom of God. What leaves the Kingdom of God appears as the "son of man" and every creeping thing. What returns is the Son of God, and all that he is in reality. This is another way of saying, "What plays in Vegas stays in Vegas", er, something like that. The world is an inconsequential playground for "the gods". It is a bogus vacation from reality. Reality is satisfying, so on vacating his mind, a player just can't get no satisfaction.

Only what descends ascends. Appearances cannot ascend. Man is an appearance of what descended. So man does not ascend. Only the Son of God ascends to his Father, for man is not the son of GoD. Rather, man is the son of gOd, the concept of another mind, other than GoD's mind. It does not really exist. What does not exist cannot be incorporated within cannot be saved. This is the same as saying what goes to a masquerade party goes home...the masks stay. The mask stays where it is as it is: nowhere and nothing.

When we can accept what can and cannot be "saved"...we will be "saved". Hell cannot go to Heaven, and Heaven cannot go to hell. However, Light can shine on darkness and make it go away.


[edit on 30-12-2008 by Christ!]

posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:31 PM

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Hey Christ!,

We are both limited in our posting capacity and I am only addressing certain things from your multiple posts.

Consciousness only exists as a belief in the mind of Christ...a belief in a mind apart...a separate mind...a mind that thinks all on its own.

That's the "only" way it exists?

Pretty much, yes. It is an idea, laughable in and of itself. Only, when it is taken seriously is it fueled with the power of the mind of Christ. The mind of Christ is unimaginable within a world of conscsiousness, as consciousness serves only to denigrate and dissapate the power of GoD in appearances.

As I said before, consciousness beats Christ "down to earth", and makes him believe he is powerless. Consciousness mocks GoD, as if it really takes six days to make the world. This makes Christ appear really inept, like a clumsy fool. The world was made in an instant, simultaneously...if at all. And no sooner it is dreamed up it is escaped and abandoned like a chained Houdini escapes from a dark box underwater.

It is many pictures of basically one thing: everything opposite reality. What is opposite reality shreds reality, bending it beyond recognition, twisting its laws to make "wicked" things...just for the hell of it. What is opposite reality "descends" from reality. It does not "extend" from reality.

The world is a single thought in the mind of Christ...a thought of many thoughts...many false thoughts. Relative to the permanance of reality, this thought passes as quickly as a green flash at sunset. If you weren't looking for it you wouldn't see it. And despite many appearances, it is the thought of one idea: What if everything was different from what it is? The forms, symbols, concepts, events and circumstances of the world are the effects of a mind thinking about [digesting] the ramifications of that idea for the sake of curiosity. The mind that thinks about it was "made" by Christ just to think about the hypothetical consequences of such a think about the unknown....rather, to think about the unknowable as if it could be known.

But knowledge is total, so the exploration of the unknowable is the concept of "learning". The mind that makes "the world" *learns*, making # up as it goes along. There are no rules, really. There are "rules of thumb", and, rules "made to be broken". Whatever it makes up, none of it can be real. That is the only rule because the mind itself is not is more like a machine or computer. I call this computer S.a.t.a.n.. Others calle it "God", or "Christ consciousness". S.a.t.a.n. function primariliy as a separation analogue, because its job is to explore what is opposite oneness, which is the truth.

The world s.a.t.a.n. makes can only exist by deception, because it exists soley off the power of belief in the mind of Christ. So it must decieve that it may be believed. It's existence is therefore on shaky ground and temporal. And as it is begotten, it begets. Its effects exist on shaky ground, "living" very temporal "lives". And yet, it fights like hell to maintain its existence as long as it can, for it can only exist as long as time. So, Christmas time is not a good time for s.a.t.a.n. Christmas time means time is almost over, and the writing is on the wall.

Christmas time is when eternity is inserted into time, and begins to erode it, or, shine it away. S.a.t.a.n. fights back by taking the words of Christ for its own purposes, twisting and turning them that they may bow down to it, and those who believe such words. A miracle is where Christ is asserted in a dark situation which otherwise denies Christ. It is the insertion of Self into self-concepts, that the truth may prevail over lies.


[edit on 30-12-2008 by Christ!]

posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 12:15 AM

Originally posted by L.I.B.

Consciousness dies as each self-concept withdraws faith in it, and puts its faith in the truth instead. So when you truly believe in Christ, you disbelieve consciousness...

"Consciousness dies" hmmmm. What is your definition of consciousness?

Per the dictionary:

Con"scious*ness\, n. 1. The state of being conscious; knowledge of one's own existence, condition, sensations, mental operations, acts, etc.

It is only the Kingdom of GoD which can satisfy. The truth is that the Son of God will not be content with less than everything...with less than what GoD gave him in his "creation".

Without consciousness, how would the Son of God even know that he was satisfied?

Without individuality, drones would exist. True, the separating ego must die, but it then must be rebuilt too. Individuality remains.

Do not be offended if I tell you these are arguments coming from consciousness in support of its existence, which it is always seeking to justify. I understand that if I point a finger three point back at me, so I accept that these are arguments somewhere within my own mind. I will look at them with you and if I look at them with Christ, light will shine them away as we can let them go.

Consciousness, which I will nick-name *super con*, would have you believe that it is alive and comprises the totality of everything. To assist its purposes, it divides your mind up into segments, levels, dimensions and zones which I will call *sub cons*. By hiding its agenda in your sub cons, it can mock and assault you who desire what it seems to offer.

It offers: a mockery of awareness - "consciousness" - while it slips you a sleeping pill that knocks you unconscious.
It offers: "Knowledge of one's own existence. Ha!
It offers: Sensations, mental operations, acts. [google "haptic device"]
It offers: "Knowlege" of what the Son of God must nOt know. Ha! Ha!
It offers: Individuality. [think: division into undivisable independent realms] Ha! Ha! Ha!
It offers: A no drone zone [while it controls all thoughts within its realm like zombies] Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
If offers: Resurrection of a "you" as a glorified body, rebuilt like the six million dollar man. But you gotta die first. Ho! Ho! Ho!

And don't forget, it offers you a "new heaven" and a "new earth" after the old one's have been destroyed. That and a set of steak knives gets you the whole world! Just watch your back, cause you'll have to bend over a barrel to get these things. You may even be called to lift your voice in praise, and sings songs of worship to what offers you these things. At some point it isn't even funny anymore.

These are officially "temptations". Temptations are officially whatever possesses your mind to see the Son of God as a body...any kind of body whatsoever: male, female, transgender, "light body", tight body, right body, flight body, zohar body, "Adam Kadmon" body. Any body! Anything that identifies you as different, special, unique, separate from, greater than, less than, or less than the totality of all that is. This cannot be confined to a body. Rather, it is freedom in Spirit.


[edit on 31-12-2008 by Christ!]

posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 05:21 AM

Originally posted by L.I.B.
The mercy is extended prior to the sacrifice. The gifts and blessings are part of the later stages of mercy otherwise no one would survive the sacrifice if done too soon.

This is unclear, and sounds like an event.

Sacrifice, properly understood, is the hypothetical killing of the truth [the Son of God] in order to obtain or otherwise "pay" for a fantasy made to seem real. Sacrifice is synonymous with "loss". In order to obtain fantasy, a mind must "lose" the truth in order to "get" what it wants. So in the fantasy that is the world, you "pay to play", and everything "costs" something. And this is because the world reflects the initial concepts that give it "life".

In the world of sacrifice, we pay dearly for our fantasies, and even go into debt to get them, even paying "on time". In many ways, the circumstances of the world symbolize the circumstances of its inception, begetting as it was begotten: by way of sacrifice...walking away from perfection...tossing away what is truly valuable...attacking and defending against the truth...victimizing the innocent. These are the themes of genesis, and play out every which way upon the world stage. It is because the world functions without truth that it suffers pain and misery. So sacrifice is directly related to cruelty.

Mercy, properly understood, is the end of cruelty, and the end of cruelty is the end of sacrifice. Believe it or not, bodies are a sacrifice of truth. Believe it or not, the sight of bodies is optional. Believe it or not, bodies are seen when there is cruel intent against the Son of God hidden deep in the sub con areas of your mind. Bodies are vulnerable so they can be hurt. Bodies are limits on the unlimited, so they are like jail cells in which mal-intent deems to imprison the Son of God. Mercy would set the Son of God free from bodies. Sacrifice would keep him in prison.

The idea that we need to "pay" for "heaven" simply betrays the fact that it is not heaven that we seek for the "sacrifice" we offer. Rather, it is more fantasies about bodies...glorified bodies...fantastic bodies. The truth is, there is no way to sell Heaven so there is no way to buy it back except to want it back. Heaven belongs to us as our inheritance. The most merciful thing we can do is go back to our inheritance. If wandering away from home means scarcity, loss and sacrifice...then returning home is the most right [righteous] thing we can do.


posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 06:01 AM

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Best wishes for that reverse engineering way of explaining the process. Hope that didn't sound sarcastic, it is sincere. My own personal experience has shown otherwise. As you continue in your exodus, after your arrival in the Holy Land (land... earth... body), you'll continue to discover more and more.

An example of reverse engineering is faith in and faith out. We use faith to work our way into a labyrinth, and we use faith to work our way out. Faith is a tool of magic, made up to make fantasy seem "real". Faith produces "evidence" of things "hoped for", and "substance" out of what cannot be seen: nothing.

The Holy Spirit, in charge of saving a delusional mind from fantasy, uses everything made to lead into fantasy to lead back out. The body is made to lead into fantasy. The Holy Spirit uses it to lead back out. This is the true meaning of "conversion". Conversion converts what would harm us [ie. swords] into what would help us [plowshares]. Faith, converted from its original purpose to enable fantasy, dismantles fantasy. Perception, made to see what we wanted, is used to see what the Holy Spirit wants us to see: a reflection of Christ in consciousness. Seeing Christ, we are led back home to where we "know" Christ as Self.

So, its magic in and miracles out. Magic works on faith in fantasy. Miracles work on faith in truth. Its genesis in and exodus out. Engineering in, reverse engineering out. Its commandeering in, common hearing out.

"Holy Land" is a metaphor. There is no such thing as holy land. But there is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit represents the true "promised land". It is the *unholy spirit* of the world which sets us about seeking what cannot be shared fully. What cannot be shared is unholy...nOt whole. While we seek for land and bodies [the unholy], we will continue to "learn" more and more of what can never be known. But as we seek for the true "promised land" which can be wholly shared, we will find, and we will find peace and true abundance [metaphor: "milk and honey"].

If we seek a land of milk and honey, we are really seeking to make others sacrifice that we may live. In this case, we make goats and cows sacrifice, and we also make bees sacrifice. "Israel" [illusion] lives as others sacrifice. Israel is a tiny bit of special land that cannot be shared. So it is synonymous with the world of super con [consciousness]. So the concept of "Israel" is of interest to super con in terms of conflict and the playing out of old testament agreements. It is super con which leads one tribe to kill other tribes to take their the name of "G-d". The chronicles of these actions are the thoughts of super con, expressed in symbolism through its symbols. Super con is interested in making what is not real *is real*, promising *real estate* to any who would bow down to it.

The Holy Spirit converts these symbols into "signs" that point to truth, by interpreting the symbols in a way that turns earthbound minds upwards and onwards instead of backwards and hack wards. For example, the unholy land is possesed by killing and taking. And this is a metaphor for the genesis of the world. The true Holy Land is possessed by seeing false thoughts as not true, "killing" them by seeing them as non-existent. In this way, the mind of Christ disposses the mind of super con which seeks to possess it for its own.


[edit on 31-12-2008 by Christ!]

posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 11:38 AM
reply to post by Christ!

Hi, Christ!

Within mathematics the functions of multiplication and division seem to be opposites, used to accomplish different results. Yet, interestingly, they both can yield the same results. Therefore, multiplication and division can actually be considered to be the same thing.

4 divided by 2 equals 2; and
4 times .50 equals 2.

Two different functions yielding the same result of 2.

The reason I bring this up is because your method of "reverse engineering/thinking" is like, for me, always using multiplication and fractions. Fractions: 1/16, 5/8, and etc ... Using complicated divisions (fractures) is not always the most expedient way of coming to a desired result, for me.

Anyway, considering the concepts presented by you in reverse requires me to process them back to forward, reinterpret to the reverse so that I may then reply to you in reverse. This process requires a level of mental energy that I just don't have right now.

I did consider that I must be getting old, lol, but no doubt it is this head cold (hanging on longer than it seems it should) causing my initial reaction to your posts to be that of scanning and not being engaged.

I had also considered that this endeavor is also only so much mental masturbation without any benefit. Yet, since it is like multiplication and division being the same thing, perhaps some benefit is to be had.

With that being said, I hope you will be gracious and allow whatever the needed time is necessary for my energy level to return for my replies without thinking that I wish to beg off from this conversation. If only I was able to sleep throughout the night instead of it too being fractured up into small sections of slumber totaling only a tiny number of hours.

[edit on 31-12-2008 by L.I.B.]

[edit on 31-12-2008 by L.I.B.]

posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 03:33 PM

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Why do you think Jesus came?

Hi L.I.B!

As you can see I am processing these thoughts at a pace somewhere between deed and GoDspeeD. Let me clear the air in this section of the temple before moving on to where I turn the tables on the money changers.
The first question should be split to reflect his dual role in playing out a parable of a split mind.

Why did Jesus come?
Why did the Holy Spirit come?

Jesus came for the same reasons everything else in "the universe" came to believe it was different from everything. Jesus came, before time, as a confused mind-fragment, which gave in to the temptation to be special. So he sacrificed the truth of his totality [which is the truth about the totality of all] to be different, unique...special. This is accomplished by giving in to the temptation to identify with symbols of limitation like bodies, all of which are different from all other bodies. And through time, change, and bodies, what came to be known as "Jesus" wandered in a foreign land, unlike his home which is the Eternal. Like the rest of us, "Jesus" experienced a dream state in which he was born to die, over and over and over again...a thousand times since the beginning of time. Along that hard and suffering path, he made judgements which directed his steps further away from his truth. Alas, he became "weary", "poor in spirit", and "hungry" for his truth. So he made a decision to turn and seek the truth as a priority. Like the rest of us, he sought the truth along a path that spanned perhaps several generations/incarnations of symbolic appearance as "man". By the time he was "born" to Mary, he symbolized a mind that had prepared itself to willingly accept the truth about himSelf. He was ready to "know thy Self"...and had, for the most part, prepared the way [cleared his mind] to make way for the Lord. In other words, his learning of the truth was cummulative over several incarnations of truth seeking, false clearing.

And this is our story as well. The birth of Jesus symbolizes the birth of willingness to accept the truth into the darkened mind that is the world. Jesus' acceptance of truth is also our own acceptance of truth because the world is one mind, darkened by confusion about itSelf. So Jesus birth symbolizes the dawn of light in a darkened mind. The light of truth is spreading within that mind as we speak, as each closed off fragment of mind opens its door to the truth which stands and knocks.

So, Jesus came before time [illusion, lies] because of the darkness of confusion.
The Holy Spirit came, before time [illusion, lies] to enlighten a darkened mind.

Jesus came because of confusion and an unholy spirit.
The Holy Spirit came to bring clarity, knowing the truth.

Jesus spent most of his "life" accepting the truth. When Jesus finally accepted the truth, he accepted the Holy Spirit as truth about himSelf. When that happened, "Jesus" died, and the Holy Spirit lived through the symbol of an empty tomb [Jesus' body]. Jesus taught himself to die as he taught others what he learned of the Teacher. "Judge not" is actually advice on how to die. And our "last judgment" is our "death" as judgement-fueled fantasies. When he died, he taught as the Teacher, and became known as the "Master". As the Master, Jesus taught others to "die to themselves"...that they may "live" as he lived.

As Jesus taught, he told a parable of a "prodigal Son". He told the story well because it was his story. And it is the story of everyone who came to time, "born to die", having sacrificed the freedom of truth for the limitations that are not true.

So, as Jesus came we came. As Jesus goes we go. In going, Jesus told us where we "came" from, where we are "going", and "the way" to get there. We "go to the Father", getting there by believing the truth, and disbelieving a great lie.


[edit on 31-12-2008 by Christ!]

posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 04:42 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


top topics

<< 16  17  18   >>

log in