Sparks Fly As 'Gay" Activist Mob Swarms Christians

reply to post by Servigistics


Someone needs to teach you how to read these things. You highlighted the examples in a list of examples highlighting more than one religious ideal in American history. You did not highlight those words anywhere in the actual resolution. What you are reading is a list of

whereas...this religious thing happend and recognized by the state

whereas this religious thing happend

and this one

and this one and that one and another.

Some were even Christian in nature.

given all those "whereas"s...

Resolved, That the United States House of Representatives----

(1) affirms the rich spiritual and diverse religious history of our Nation's founding and subsequent history, including up to the current day;

(2) recognizes that the religious foundations of faith on which America was built are critical underpinnings of our Nation's most valuable institutions and form the inseparable foundation for America's representative processes, legal systems, and societal structures;

(3) rejects, in the strongest possible terms, any effort to remove, obscure, or purposely omit such history from our Nation's public buildings and educational resources; and

(4) expresses support for designation of a `American Religious History Week' every year for the appreciation of and education on America's history of religious faith.

That is the actual resolution. Sorry to burst your bubble and all but the words Christian, Christianity, and Jesus are still not there. What is still there is the idea that America is founded in religious diversity more than any one particular faith. Please have a poli-sci teaher explain to you how to read that bill.

Originally posted by White Goose
There's a larger picture here......somewhere.

I watched the whole disturbing video clip, and feel the need to add my own distant perspective (distant, because I live in New Zealand). I couldn't tell from the clip what the christian group were preaching about....content....thrust etc. I couldn't tell whether God sent them into the 'lions den' or whether is was more or less a well meant and thought out plan on their part alone.

But my guess is they knew that their safety, and possibly their lives were going to be on the line, when they went there to sing and preach. So.....either their chosen venue was very ill conceived and foolish on their part, or fairly brave and ultimately inspired from beyond themselves; I can't tell which from where I am.

If it were the latter, I suppose the god just decided to let it go down this way for a reason then. Why else would he guide them there when he knows what the result is going to be already?

Originally posted by Iblis Smiley
reply to post by Servigistics

 

Someone needs to teach you how to read these things. You highlighted the examples in a list of examples highlighting more than one religious ideal in American history. You did not highlight those words anywhere in the actual resolution. What you are reading is a list of

whereas...this religious thing happend and recognized by the state

whereas this religious thing happend

and this one

and this one and that one and another.

Some were even Christian in nature.

given all those "whereas"s...

Resolved, That the United States House of Representatives----

(1) affirms the rich spiritual and diverse religious history of our Nation's founding and subsequent history, including up to the current day;

(2) recognizes that the religious foundations of faith on which America was built are critical underpinnings of our Nation's most valuable institutions and form the inseparable foundation for America's representative processes, legal systems, and societal structures;

(3) rejects, in the strongest possible terms, any effort to remove, obscure, or purposely omit such history from our Nation's public buildings and educational resources; and

(4) expresses support for designation of a `American Religious History Week' every year for the appreciation of and education on America's history of religious faith.

That is the actual resolution. Sorry to burst your bubble and all but the words Christian, Christianity, and Jesus are still not there. What is still there is the idea that America is founded in religious diversity more than any one particular faith. Please have a poli-sci teaher explain to you how to read that bill.

Kid go back to school that is all I can say if you think that summary at the end is the total bill. All the "whereas" is legalese explaining how they arrived at the details of the bill's central message. but I aint going to argue with ya. You can think it's a satanic nation for all I care.

We get any more like you Obama and Bush in office, we will be

Originally posted by Servigistics
All the "whereas" is legalese explaining how they arrived at the details of the bill's central message.

That is exactly what I said, genius. They are how they arrived at the actual resolution which is stated at the end, clearly titled as such. Who explained this to you exactly? Let me say it again, slower. All the whereas is how they arrived at the actual resolution which is??????

Do it for me, what did the congress resolve? What does that document actually say the resolution is. Please fill me in. It is right in there. Just copy and paste the resolution part of the bill please. I will highlight all the times it says Christianity myself ok.

p.s. i did not say the summary was the entire bill. I said the resolution was the actual resolution. If you think each and every line is a law or declaration then your christianity is in big trouble.


[edit on 29-11-2008 by Iblis Smiley]

Actually all democracies are founded on a separation of church and state and have an obligation, as in a formal or informal constitution, to provide equality for all members of society, irregardless of sex, age, status, race, health even, and religious preference, including all minority groups. And failure to do this means they are not even players in the democracy ball park. Gay rights are quite simple, they are now, that we have advanced in medical science, becoming somewhat less mystified and understood. For gay activists to target the groups that are primitive and backwards enough to be hijacking the mechanisms of the democracy to serve their religious prejudices makes sense to me.

reply to post by Servigistics


Bottom line kid,its only the Christian right who claim that the US is a Christian country.And they're wrong.

Article 6 says,

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

www.usconstitution.net...


Also of importance.

The Framers thought that they had constructed a very complete and comprehensive document. But many people disagreed, and though the opposition had many issues with the Constitution, they focused on one in particular: the lack of a bill of rights.

Almost all of the state constitutions contained bills of rights - rights that the people of the states were guaranteed to enjoy regardless of any law or rule to the contrary. The supporters of the Constitution felt that a bill of rights was unneeded at best, because the federal government was not allowed to legislate on issues it had no direct mandate to do so, and dangerous at worst, because a list of rights could necessarily limit the rights of the people.

In the end, many supporters of the Constitution, including one of the most prominent, James Madison, agreed to support a bill of rights in the Constitution, if it could be ratified. Several of the states included suggested amendments, including rights of the people, in their ratification documents. The push was on for a bill of rights in the Constitution. Madison was true to his word - on June 8, 1789, Representative James Madison rose and gave a speech in the House where he introduced a series of articles of amendment. One concerned religious freedom:

The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext, infringed.


Through the debates in the House, Senate, and conference committees, the wording of all of these proposals was whittled down to the religion clauses of what is our 1st Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.


In the end, the 1st Amendment not only prevents the establishment of a national religion, but it also prohibits government aid to any religion, even on an non-preferential basis, as well as protecting the right of the individual to choose to worship, or not, as he or she sees fit.

www.usconstitution.net...

Read it and weep,my boy.



Edited to add...

Read it and weap. You're just mad cuz it doesn't say anything about losers for Satan or Satan Groupies like yourself who just hate JC and all he stands for thinking they are cool using scary avatars not caring how juvenile an impression it makes about those having such taste in graphics that might suggest something about ourselves.

Not one sentence in your extensive quoting mentions Christianity,Christians or Christ in relation to the country being of that faith.The fact that amendments had to be made to include God (the Christian one) in things should tell you that the country was not founded as a Christian country in the first place.


[edit on 29-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by Iblis Smiley


By the same token, there have been times in the Old Testament period when God on one hand......sent the prophet to speak HIS mind and heart to the people in a very specific way. But on the other....he warned the prophet even before he was sent, that he would not be listened to, or heeded. Same flavour, same mystery.

I've read the bible. I've read dry and dusty books on theologian in our churches library. Between human rights, and true social justice, and those ideas, the human rights wins, or I would be betraying the real, loving, incredible, advanced, idealistic, perfect, non-judgmental, beautiful Creator that truly exists.

Originally posted by White Goose
reply to post by Iblis Smiley

 

By the same token, there have been times in the Old Testament period when God on one hand......sent the prophet to speak HIS mind and heart to the people in a very specific way. But on the other....he warned the prophet even before he was sent, that he would not be listened to, or heeded. Same flavour, same mystery.

um...uh....huh?

reply to post by Iblis Smiley


Well, it works like this: A father, if he loves his children deeply, will always make what effectively may be a last ditch effort to steer his offspring from what he knows is certain disaster.......even though you know the outcome is a 'fait accompli'. It reveals an expression of love (of the father)......but it leaves the child without any further complaint or excuse for the outcome. The scenario with the sent prophet, the rebellious people, and to some extent, the "walk into the lion's den" all carry the same hallmarks. I guess I can't add much more than that.

Regards.

reply to post by White Goose


Let me clear that up. I did not need you to explain your post. I need you to explain how it applies to anything I had said. Were you replying to an older post of mine or did I miss something?

Hey Sherlock the old canard of Atheist's saying this Country wasn't founded on the Bible and Christian belief was the whole reason that bill was passed in the first place and why the Highest Court in the land SAYS SO right there in the same Bill!

Whereas the United States Supreme Court has declared throughout the course of our Nation's history that the United States is `a CHRISTIAN country', `a CHRISTIAN nation', `a CHRISTIAN people', `a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being', and that `we cannot read into the Bill of Rights a philosophy of hostility to religion';

Each one of those "whereas" is an item of the resolutions drafted in the bill that were written to establish as fact, the historical events as they occured and that Congress including the supreme court would recognize ALL of them as Religion meaning The Christian God of the Bible which is WHY the Book called the Bible is mentioned and WHO is the God of that Bible? That's Right Jesus Christ!

This bill was passed so that People like you could be told unequivocally that all the words in this Bill where it starts under the word "Resolutions" (resolved meaning "determined" ) Resolution means what again?? That's right it means decree or declaration! Each one of those whereas is a declaration" So you are DEAD WRONG you epitomize the very reason this bill had to be created inspite of your attempts to ridicule me and my understanding of the Bill, you only mock yourself as intolerant of the very Christian ideals that have afforded you the freedom you have to criticize it.

Christianity to which the sword and the fagot are unknown general tolerant Christianity is the law of the land!

Those who attribute the Treaty of Tripoli quote to George Washington make two mistakes. The first is that no statement in it can be attributed to Washington (the treaty did not arrive in America until months after he left office); Washington never saw the treaty; it was not his work; no statement in it can be ascribed to him. The second mistake is to divorce a single clause of the treaty from the remainder which provides its context. It would also be absurd to suggest that President Adams (under whom the treaty was ratified in 1797) would have endorsed or assented to any provision which repudiated Christianity. In fact, while discussing the Barbary conflict with Jefferson, Adams declared:

The policy of Christendom has made cowards of all their sailors before the standard of Mahomet. It would be heroical and glorious in us to restore courage to ours.

Furthermore, it was Adams who declared:
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature


Listed are the founders whose exact quotes I have copy pasted verbatim their beliefs still part of the historical congressional record. How you can honestly state you have not seen anything I have shown you that would indicate otherwise this Nations Christian heritage is nothing less than the act of a beligerant children wilfully ignorant and totally unaware of it.

www.sodahead.com...

John Adams


SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; DIPLOMAT; ONE OF TWO SIGNERS OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECOND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1

The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in this earth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. . . . There is no authority, civil or religious – there can be no legitimate government but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or in more orthodox words damnation.2

Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company: I mean hell.3

The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.4

Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be!5

I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.6

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Servigistics]


[edit: clipped quoted content and added source linkl]
Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by Servigistics


I will try this one last time. Without wasting an ounce of energy following you off on your newest tangent, I will restate my case. Please show me one piece of documentation declaring this a Christian Nation. You can go on and on all day about the founding father's views on religion but those are the same men that also helped decide this is indeed NOT a Christian Nation or do you just ignore posts that prove you wrong there.

Just prove this is indeed a Christian Nation as declared such by U.S. law and I will move on. That is all you have to do. Seems simple enough if you are right. Of course it seemed simple the last 5 times I asked for such easy proof as well.

reply to post by Servigistics


Any chance that you might add the links to this extensive and pointless quotes?

It is,after all,in the rules.

Maybe you don't wanna coz they're from Christian right web sites.

Oh,and you make one fatal mistake in your quoting.You keep confusing personal religious views with country and state views.All those that signed the declaration and constitution made it clear that their personal beliefs was not an issue in the founding of an independent America.The passed a law which said this.I even quoted it for you.



[edit on 30-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


Oh, you Godless heathans! Let's see, what was the original topic of this thread? Oh yes homosexuals swarming Christians.
Gays seem to be fighting for the world to accept their immoral CHOICES so much that they are becoming violent. Again I say, if they wish to be immoral, that's their CHOICE, but I have the right to not know about it. Keep it off my TV, out of my movies, and out of my children's heads. Keep your unnatural, immoral, crude CHOICES to yourselves and leave the rest of us out of it.
This country has become so desensitized and immoralized by the media and entertainment industry that they are starting to accept everything now as long as the news and entertainment industry makes it cool. Look at Miley Cyrus, she's what 15, 16 years old and it's all over the news about her 20ish year old boyfriend and her racey photos all over the internet. People haven't said crap about it. The news media and entertainment industry is now not only shoving homosexuality down our throats but now pedophilia as well. Yes a 20 something year old man with a 15 year old girl is pedophilia. Choices, choices, choices. I watched a movie last night on TBS that bleeped out the word Nigger, but did not bleep out GD at all. The same movie bleeped out the word Faggot but not GD. They can show two men making out on tv but my kid can't pray in school.
The media and entertainment industry need to keep their agendas to themselves as do the homosexuals.

Look boys, it's obvious you don't give hoot about the rules when you don't care about the rule of law or what the supreme court says in that bill

You know it is and I know you know it is but I understand your perverted revisionist histrionics were spoon fed to you by a public school system that is more interested in teaching you the finer points of cross dressing transgenderism and basically how to rub pee pee's with your school mates and the health hazards of inserting same into a light socket every time you feel "progressive" and pretty enough to jerk yerself a soda.

That public school system where Gays like these in the op have so perverted what is reasonable to teach in schools that things like reading and math and science have suffered to the point where YOU obviously have NOT learned how to read English as I have given you the exact text of the bill and the exact quotes verbatim.

Would it help if it was in Spanish?

Yes you and iblis are the sad consequences of a failed education system determined to turn as many out as they possibly can and the damage it has done to retard the academic growth of students today is reflected in the way you have deliberately resisted the facts herein which are unequivocally undeniable with extreme prejudice for the truth giving way to the militant gays, typical M.O. of condemnation before investigation.

I gave you sound reasons why same sex marriage is wrong and you insist it has something to do with equal rights when I have proven that is not the case. You have accused religion in a sweeping act of insipid ridicule so rude, repugnant and selectively antagonistic It will have you choking on the dust of your own regrets as you vomit the vernacular of your vitriolic verbal venom that poisons and weakens the very tolerance you require.

International surveys show that same-sex marriage and the erosion of traditional marriage tend to go together. Traditional marriage is weakest and illegitimacy strongest wherever same-sex marriage is legal.








Nice straw man JACK! Of course you know this being a Christian Nation like the Bill says would have a website. Yes the Congress still holds Church Services in the Capitol. Did you know they did that? I suppose you didn't learn that either did you.


Anyone who thinks that same-sex “marriage” is a benign eccentricity which won’t affect the average person should consider what it has done in Massachusetts. It’s become a hammer to force the acceptance and normalization of homosexuality on everyone. And this train is moving fast. What has happened so far is only the beginning.


I had seen a number of threads where the subject of gays is brought up an invariably find them a complete and utter waste of time. So my reason to create a post like this is one of illustrating a very sound compelling argument for being against same sex marriage. Albeit their are numerous reason given in the articles for me to feel perfectly justified in being against same sex marriage, it is after taking a look at some of the data coming out of places like Massachusetts that many Californians are concerned with in spite of the Gays allegations this is just a Religious issue with intolerance, I, think after you read some of the information, you may see this has all the earmarks of one of the worst societal mistakes we can possibly allow and one that would be hard to reverse once it has gained a foothold in our daily lives.

Their is MUCH about this agenda being pushed by gays that is just plane INTOLERABLE, in fact, this idea shouldn't even be entertained much less given legislative consideration.

BE ADVISED: If you are like most of us, the information in the following article will shock you with facts and statistics so hard to swallow, it gives intolerance a whole new perspective. The following editorial has issues I will no longer argue in places like ATS where Gays will insult the sources, accuse me of being a brainwashed fundie xtian and conclude this is all hate speech.

On November 18, 2003, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court announced its Goodridge opinion, ruling that it was unconstitutional not to allow same-sex “marriage.” Six months later, homosexual marriages began to be performed. The public schools The homosexual “marriage” onslaught in public schools across the state started soon after the November 2003, court decision.


At my own children's high school there was a school-wide assembly to celebrate same-sex “marriage” in early December, 2003. It featured an array of speakers, including teachers at the school who announced that they would be “marrying” their same-sex partners and starting families either through adoption or artificial insemination. Literature on same-sex marriage – how it is now a normal part of society – was handed out to the students.

www.massresistance.org...

You got your link too and yeah it isn't ONLY a Christian "right" website

It is down right ANTI GAY

but I can tolerate that

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Servigistics]

[edit on 11/30/08 by FredT]

reply to post by Christian Voice


Choice? Boy, you must be fairly uneducated on the subject. Choice plays little part in the matter. This has been explained dozens of times, but the words seem to fall on deaf ears.

Equating homosexuality to paedophilia, yeah that's not original either, but it's still just as much a strawman as ever. Paedophilia is very damaging, mainly because it is not consensual, however homosexual acts, when consensual is no more damaging than heterosexual acts period.

I'm not sure Christ would like you as his posterboy.

reply to post by Good Wolf


I was bringing up pedophilia as a comparison for what the media is shoving down our throats. I would imagine that Miley Cyrus is not being forced into her relationship. That would suggest that it is consensual.
As for God wanting me as his posterchild, I'm not attempting to be God or his likeness. I am however a Christian I.E. Christ's follower and his word says homosexuality is wrong. Jesus says in the Bible that a man should leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife. That sets the standard for relationships and it came from Jesus' own lips. Paul who was an Apostle wrote in Romans that homosexuality is wrong. So therefor me quoting Jesus and his disciples does make me a pretty good posterchild for Christianity though.
It is totally a choice. When a man physicly touches another man sexually he makes a choice to do so. No invisible force makes him do this, he makes a mental choice to act physicly. I'll bring up the whole pedophilia thing again. Every pedophile interviewed swears that they are attracted to children and they cannot help it. That is the same arguement homosexuals are using. Men are saying they are only attracted to men and they cannot help it. It is the exact same arguement. I'm not argueing consent here, I'm arguing attraction. These pedophiles claim they are attracted to minors and they make a choice and act on it.
Now if you claim that homosexuality is natural and fine and they are just attracted to the same sex, then why is pedophilia not right? If a 17 year old girl willingly accepts a 30 year old sex partner why is the 30 year old man wrong and has to register as a sex offender? A 17 year old girl is perfectly capable of giving consent. Years ago the sodomy laws were on the books to prevent homosexuality and homosexuals fought and got most removed. What is going to happen when the media and entertainment industry push an agenda of making light of relationships between adolescents and adults and the pedophiles start getting laws changed and removed? Where does it end?

This is why in a democracy, state and religion must be separate at all time, and anyone who quotes ancient biblical passages as a way to try and deprive the human being standing before them of human rights for conditions of birth, ahd this truly has already been determined medically, then they had better chose the person, or they have betrayed the real God within that person. Separation of Church and State means Christians, Muslims, whomever, have no right to try and hijack portions of government to push their agendas through.