Sparks Fly As 'Gay" Activist Mob Swarms Christians, page 45

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reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 03:52 PM by Iblis Smiley

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by Iblis Smiley

He set the standard for relationships with that statement alone. Jesus does say that sex is for marriage alone and that marriage is for a man and his wife. So hit me with another one.

Is that how this works? You just pretend that you answered something and pat yourself on the back? I asked where Jesus said anything about homosexuality. Did you forget a quote? Did you delete the post that answers that? Sorry that you feel like you are done and ready to move on but I still do not see any words from Jesus about homosexuality. Try providing that and then be proud of yourself for answering me.

So I am hitting you with the original again since you missed completely.

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 03:56 PM by Christian Voice

reply to post by jakyll

And pedophilia is not only about raping a 6 year old girl either. A 21 year old man that has consensual sex with a 16 year old girl will be found guilty of statutory rape and have to register as a pedophile. All homosexuality is not consensual, there are gay rapes all the time. So I still don't see the difference in the two arguements.
BTW until a few years ago homosexuals did have to break the law to be together. Have you forgotten the sodomy laws?

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 03:56 PM by jakyll

reply to post by Christian Voice

Would you look at that,i'm not infallible after all.

But those verses are not about marriage being between a man and woman only,they're about the right of divorce.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 04:07 PM by jakyll

reply to post by Christian Voice

And pedophilia is not only about raping a 6 year old girl either. A 21 year old man that has consensual sex with a 16 year old girl will be found guilty of statutory rape and have to register as a pedophile. All homosexuality is not consensual, there are gay rapes all the time. So I still don't see the difference in the two arguements.

WTF!

Heterosexuals rape too (and more often than homosexuals) which,by your logic,means that straight sex is also wrong.And the case of the 21yr old and 16yr old is only true if the age of consent is higher than that.But they are still not classed as pedophiles.

And no,i haven't forgot the sodomy laws which originated in most western countries from the Christian world-view established from the Bible.I also know that the laws were mainly against buggery and not all gay sexual activity and that they included gay men but not gay women.So us lesbo's could do what we liked.

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 04:07 PM by jimmyx

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by jakyll

And pedophilia is not only about raping a 6 year old girl either. A 21 year old man that has consensual sex with a 16 year old girl will be found guilty of statutory rape and have to register as a pedophile. All homosexuality is not consensual, there are gay rapes all the time. So I still don't see the difference in the two arguements.
BTW until a few years ago homosexuals did have to break the law to be together. Have you forgotten the sodomy laws?

yup and a few years further back, a white person could not marry a black person legally. i refuse to live under gods law, men write the law in this country, not some mythical being. and back in the 1800's, 12 year girls could legally consent to marriage, sanctioned by the christian church of that time. and sodomy??? what?? are you still in the dark ages waiting to burn witches, too?

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 04:08 PM by Christian Voice

reply to post by Iblis Smiley

I can't break it down any further for you he said HE made man and woman and they should be one flesh. Good grief a child can understand that one. A man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

The argument that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality in the gospels is misleading and illogical for at least five reasons:
The gospels are not more authoritative than those books of the Bible that condemn homosexual behavior. All authors of Scripture were inspired by God's Holy Spirit.
The gospels are not comprehensive. Some of the Bible's most important teachings – the explanation of spiritual gifts, the Priesthood of Christ, the doctrine of man's old and new nature – appear in other books of the Bible.
The gospels do not claim to be a complete account of Jesus' life or teachings. Sections of Jesus' life are not discussed in the gospels and we cannot be certain that Jesus never spoke about homosexual behavior.
Scripture teaches that Jesus kept all the Law and affirmed all that the Law and the Prophets taught (Matt. 5:17-19). Undoubtedly, this would have included the affirmation of committed, monogamous male-female marriage and an unwavering condemnation of homosexual behavior. Given that all first century orthodox Jews would have held to this standard, the question of affirming homosexuality would not have been open to discussion in Jesus' day.
Jesus clearly referred to heterosexuality as a standard. He specifically described God's created intent for human sexuality: "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate" (Matt. 19: 1-8; Mk. 10:6-9).

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 04:15 PM by mystiq

reply to post by Christian Voice

It was a personal invite by God when reading the words of the new testament, by the activation of His/Her Presence within my heart. And I've never gone back. Jesus was a remarkable man for his time. In ancient middle eastern style community He walked with women and children, who were shunned in public in mixed company. His message was profound and about selfless service, and dying to self. Living His message, minus all the terrible prejudices and ignoring the war mongling stuff in the Bible, and for me, most of the Bible in general, would make a truly wonderful world. No other faith is like that.

Since God led me there, only God will take that faith in Jesus from me. But the other stuff, She made it very clear by a total lack of feeling of Presence in the word that it was man made and contrived. My faith has never been merely a tradition I was raised in, but a grace or experience. So I don't get into biblical scriptual arguments. Science tells us that the brains of male homosexuals resembe female heterosexual brains, and female lesbians, resemble male heterosexuals.

There is a lot more evidence, not to mention those I've known who are gay, or bisexual have testimony to share about what it is, which is not a choice. If a person stands before you and an ancient book tells you to control, harm, ignore, and trample their equal rights to live their birth right out, then the Book is wrong, or you really don't know God, and God within Her creation, which is perfect.

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 04:17 PM by jakyll

reply to post by Christian Voice

Which means it must have been so out in the open and and so prolific to warrant divine intervention.Yet,looking at historical accounts of the different era's the Bible covers,this is not the case.

Edited to add....

Marriage is not compulsory.As it says in the verses you quoted."Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given."

In fact,God does not intend that everyone gets married.Jesus,also in Matthew 19,verse 12 says;

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

2 are clear.
Eunuch's made that way:castrated by others.
Eunuchs who have castrated themselves for the glory of God.

But the 3rd.
Eunuchs who are born that way.Who is that?

[edit on 30-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 04:30 PM by tommyb98201

This kind of thing happens with CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. A few get violent or near violent to make a point. I do not agree with this behavior. In time Prop8 will be overturned and California will be the model across the country. Religion has nothing to do with this and should stay out of it, IMO. Its a no brainer to me.

Everything changes all the time, always has, always will. Thats why they invented liberals.

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 07:04 PM by Iblis Smiley

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by Iblis Smiley

I can't break it down any further for you he said HE made man and woman and they should be one flesh. Good grief a child can understand that one. A man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

The argument that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality in the gospels is misleading and illogical for at least five reasons:

Cool, then just put Jesus' quotes that say homosexuality is wrong. That is what you said and now in 3 posts you have not provided those quotes. Why is that? Interpret and translate all you like to someone else.

You said Jesus said homosexuality is wrong!

Please provide those quotes or admit you are wrong. Do not give me paragraphs about why you believe it, just quote him.

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 08:39 PM by Christian Voice

reply to post by Iblis Smiley

What, are ya 3 years old? Your arguement really sounds like a rediculous playground scuffle. Jesus specificly said taht marriage is for a man and a woman, he specificly said that sex is strictly for marriage, it's not rocket science. True it was disciples and apostles that actually broke it down for us. They were disciples. The Gospels were not comprehensive accounts, they focused on other issues. Jesus never specificly said that having sex with a minor is wrong did he? He never specificly said that sex with a goat is wrong did he? According to you those things are wrong,,,, why? Jesus did not say so. He also didn't say that insider trading or spreading computer viruses is wrong did he? Must not be wrong then because surely we can't possibly discern right from wrong from the rest of the Bible.

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 08:44 PM by Iblis Smiley

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by Iblis Smiley

What, are ya 3 years old? Your arguement really sounds like a rediculous playground scuffle. Jesus specificly said taht marriage is for a man and a woman, he specificly said that sex is strictly for marriage, it's not rocket science.

I am sorry but I do not understand how dodging my quetstion 3 times and then personally attacking me shows any maturity on your part that is lacking on my end but ok. You specifically stated that Jesus taught that homosexuality is wrong.

Are you ever going to back that up or just keep twisting the story to try and make the point you really hope to make instead of relying on the facts? Twist and dodge with stupid people all you like. I challenged your claim and now in 4 posts, the best you have done is to call me a 3 year old. OK, I guess if insults instead of backing up what you said is what floats as intelligent debate for you, no wonder you are Christian.

let mtry again, for the 4th time now -

You said Jesus stated homosexuality is wrong.

Please back that up.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Iblis Smiley]

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 08:51 PM by mystiq

Not only that, whatever inclusion or exclusion is stated in words according to the customs of ancient people does not apply to modern faith in a modern world where we have medical advances enough to understand a little more, and those advances reveal the injustice and victimization that following this ancient scripture is doing to people. This is what is called an upgrade in religions, or a modern moderate version. Anything else should be illegal, and all religions should be forced to upgrade to the highest standards of human rights, based on modern knowledge.
This is being said concerning ancient scripts that don't apply to the actual situation as it really is, but the truth is a separation of state and religion of any kind certainly means those lines can't affect the actual running, or laws within the democracy. Oh, but breakthroughs in scientific understanding certainly would overturn a few archaic laws.

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 08:58 PM by Iblis Smiley

Originally posted by Christian Voice
reply to post by jakyll

And pedophilia is not only about raping a 6 year old girl either. A 21 year old man that has consensual sex with a 16 year old girl will be found guilty of statutory rape and have to register as a pedophile.

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In many U.S. states, 16 is above or equal to the age of consent. It is 15 in Washington D.C. Look it up.

Aside from that, statutory rape and pedophillia are two VERY DIFFERENT THINGS! If you know a 16 year old girl that can be the object of pedophillia, you need to get her to a doctor right quick.

Pedophile - person who is sexually attracted to children that have NOT YET REACHED PUBERTY.

If a man is convicted of statutory rape, he may have to register as a sex offender - MAY!

No one registers as a pedophile. Your ignorance in this post is overflowing.
Thank you so much for this post as now I realize what I am dealing with. Please, oh please argue with me about any of this, please. I know you will not admit you are wrong, IN EVERY PART OF YOUR POST. That would be noble and Christ like and yet somehow I never expect to find that in a post on ATS from a "Christian."

Please educate yourself before continuing on.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Iblis Smiley]

[edit on 30-11-2008 by Iblis Smiley]

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 09:19 PM by SaintlyMic

Originally posted by amazed
Wrong, christians do not stand on truth, they stand on belief.

Your belief as a religious person tells you that homosexuality is wrong.

My belief as a spiritual person tells me I have no right to make that judgment, that would be gods right not mine.

As a spiritual (not religious) person I will judge people on how they treat others within this world and use that to decide if I want that person to have a place within my life.

All you are being asked to "accept" is the right another person has to make choices for their own life. Just as you have the right to make choices for your life.

Now mah and pah ain't that just so darned tutin easy?

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 10:27 PM by SaintlyMic

Reply to post by jakyll

By SaintlyMic
Here is a link to a post of mine concerning homosexuality being WRONG in the Bible:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Also, here are links to other posts where I revealed where the scriptures say homosexuality is WRONG!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Here is a brief summary of those scriptures just in case you do not feel like going to those posts:

Please take notice that in Genesis when the sodomites wanted to "KNOW" the angels of the Lord that Lot told them that they were DOING that which was WICKED.

If the sodomites were just simply wanting to KNOW ABOUT THE ANGELS that THAT would NOT have been WICKED.
But, the sodomites did not want to just simply know ABOUT the angels, nor did they want to know WHO the angels were.
The sodomites wanted to have sexual relations with the angels, who the men of the city THOUGHT were men.

This is verified when Lot asked for the men of the city to take the daughters of Lot to KNOW them instead of the angels.
Homosexuals, even today, try to use the TACTIC that the sodomite men only wanted to GET TO KNOW, or KNOW ABOUT, the angels sent from the Lord.

OLD TESTAMENT

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the MEN of the city, even the MEN of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, ALL THE PEOPLE from every quarter:
Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men (the angels) which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may KNOW them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
Gen 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, DO not so WICKEDLY.

Lev 18:22 Thou (MEN) shalt not lie with MANKIND, as with womankind: IT IS AN ABOMINATION.
Lev 18:27 (For all these ABOMINATIONS have the MEN of the land done, which were before you, and the land is DEFILED)
Lev 18:29 FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL COMMIT ANY OF THESE ABOMINATIONS, even the souls that COMMIT THEM shall be cut off from among their people.
Lev 18:30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, THAT YE COMMIT NOT ANY ONE OF THESE ABOMINABLE CUSTOMS, which were COMMITTED before you, and that ye DEFILE NOT YOURSELVES therein: I am the LORD your God.

NEW TESTAMENT

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to UNCLEANNESS through the LUSTS of THEIR OWN HEARTS, to DISHONOUR THEIR OWN BODIES between themselves:
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto VILE AFFECTIONS: for even their WOMEN did change the NATURAL USE into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the MEN, leaving the natural use of the woman, BURNED IN THEIR LUST ONE TOWARD ANOTHER; MEN WITH MEN working that which is UNSEEMLY, and receiving in themselves that RECOMPENCE OF THEIR ERROR which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a REPROBATE MIND, to do those things WHICH ARE NOT CONVENIENT;
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, THAT THEY WHICH COMMIT SUCH THINGS ARE WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, BUT HAVE PLEASURE IN THEM THAT DO THEM.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Notice that not only those who PRACTICE homosexuality are WRONG, but also those who DEFEND homosexuality are WRONG!

This is why Christians, or Christianity itself, are NOT ACCEPTED!

[edit on 11/30/2008 by SaintlyMic]

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 10:37 PM by Good Wolf

reply to post by SaintlyMic

They ACCUSE us of not loving them because we will not accept homosexual behavior as right.
So, they try to bait people like me to try to argue with them because they think they can convince us that it is right for the homosexual to practice homosexuality.

Everyone has the right and the liberty to practise homosexuality, that liberty is part of what makes our society better than fascist Nazi Germany.

You can call homosexuality wrong all you like (that is your right to your opinion) however, it's a different story when you try to infringe on the liberties and rights of other people.

Please take notice that in Genesis when the sodomites wanted to "KNOW" the angels of the Lord that Lot told them that they were DOING that which was WICKED.

The people wanted to rape the angels. A non-consensual act. Homosexuality can be consensual, so this scripture doesn't mean anything.

[edit on 30/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 10:48 PM by SaintlyMic

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by SaintlyMic

They ACCUSE us of not loving them because we will not accept homosexual behavior as right.
So, they try to bait people like me to try to argue with them because they think they can convince us that it is right for the homosexual to practice homosexuality.

Everyone has the right and the liberty to practise homosexuality, that liberty is part of what makes our society better than fascist Nazi Germany.

You can call homosexuality wrong all you like (that is your right to your opinion) however, it's a different story when you try to infringe on the liberties and rights of other people.

Please take notice that in Genesis when the sodomites wanted to "KNOW" the angels of the Lord that Lot told them that they were DOING that which was WICKED.

The people wanted to rape the angels. A non-consensual act. Homosexuality can be consensual, so this scripture doesn't mean anything.

Oh, so now you are going to try to defend homosexuality by saying the sodomites only wanted to rape the angels of God.
Fair enough, but you neglect commenting on the other scriptures I quoted from the Bible.
Are you going to neglect the validity of those scriptures as well, Mr.V?

Notice also that sodom was NOT destroyed just because its inhabitants were rapists, but because they were practicing homosexuality.

[edit on 11/30/2008 by SaintlyMic]

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 10:53 PM by Good Wolf

reply to post by SaintlyMic

I neglect to comment on the other scripture because I'm not biblical scholar. My realm is science and philosophy.

I'm gunna let people like jakyll to take you on on the other bits of scripture.

However, it doesn't much matter what the bible says, because no matter what you perceive to be wrong, we need our liberties, and things like prop 8 liberty does not make.

You don't have to defend homosexuality, like it or accept it. You do however have to respect peoples rights to practise homosexuality.

Notice also that sodom was NOT destroyed just because its inhabitants were rapists, but because they were practicing homosexuality.

Well I can't take your word on that, you need to prove your claim.

[edit on 30/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply posted on 30-11-2008 @ 10:57 PM by SaintlyMic

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by SaintlyMic

I neglect to comment on the other scripture because I'm not biblical scholar. I have only read a little of the book, but even I know that with the sodomites the sin was desire to rape.

I'm gunna let people like jakyll to take you on on the other bits of scripture.

However, it doesn't much matter what the bible says, because no matter what you perceive to be wrong, we need our liberties, and things like prop 8 liberty does not make.

You don't have to defend homosexuality, like it or accept it. You do however have to respect peoples rights.

No, I do NOT have to accept the so called "right" of a homosexual to practice homosexuality.
This so called "right' is not a "right' at all.
There is NOTHING right about homosexual behavior, and that is why you and your homosexual cohorts reject Jesus Christ and those of us who are Christians.

The TRUE Mr.V would never had supported homosexuality.
He supported that which was right, and in the future as in the movie, he DESTROYED those of the government that supported that which was wrong.

And you say you are not a biblical scholar, but you obviously still pick and choose which scriptures you desire to comment about.
How convenient.

[edit on 11/30/2008 by SaintlyMic]