Sexual identity and sexual preference is a fact of birth, its hard wired, the differences in individuals can be studied by scientists, and its a crime against humanity to even talk like that. God created everyone equally. The ancient, lacking of medical knowledge, thousands of year old, scriptures ARE WRONG. But it doesn't matter. The laws of the land are completely separate from anyones Bibles. They are secular and based on the medical knowledge and modern knowledge. So yes you have to accept everyone's sexual preferences, providing it is amongst consenting adults, nor may you oppose anyone chosing to marry their own sex or exercise any of their equal rights under the law. If you do, you should be charged for it.

Directed at SaintlyMic

nor may you oppose anyone chosing to marry their own sex or exercise any of their equal rights under the law. If you do, you should be charged for it.

Yeah! And if you don't like it then leave. If you can't respect freedom then you don't deserve to live in the secular world.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Directed at SaintlyMic

nor may you oppose anyone chosing to marry their own sex or exercise any of their equal rights under the law. If you do, you should be charged for it.

Yeah! And if you don't like it then leave. If you can't respect freedom then you don't deserve to live in the secular world.

Everyone, please notice that I did not say what was in the quotes above.
It was Good Wolf's OPPINION.

Both Christians and non-christians alike have rejected the notion Good Wolf quoted.
This is proof by the democratic process to pass prop 8!
The people, as a whole, do NOT accept your notion.
And, Christians are not required to accept homosexual marriage as a "right" of the homosexual!

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
No, I do NOT.
If I ACCEPT homosexuality as a right of the individual it would go against EVERYTHING JESUS REPRESENTS.

You ask me to DENY Jesus and then ACCEPT homosexual behavior when you ask that I RECOGNIZE the right of a person to practice homosexuality.
All I am required to do is accept the person as a person.
I am not required to accept what they DO.
DOING homosexuality is wrong, and if I should receive it then I would be going against my right to reject it.

I didn't say you had to accept it. You just have to respect peoples right to do as they wish. Otherwise, you're no better than the Nazis.

[edit on 30/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
No, I do NOT.
If I ACCEPT homosexuality as a right of the individual it would go against EVERYTHING JESUS REPRESENTS.

You ask me to DENY Jesus and then ACCEPT homosexual behavior when you ask that I RECOGNIZE the right of a person to practice homosexuality.
All I am required to do is accept the person as a person.
I am not required to accept what they DO.
DOING homosexuality is wrong, and if I should receive it then I would be going against my right to reject it.

I didn't say you had to accept it. You just have to respect peoples right to do as they wish.

I do not have to respect the ACT of homosexuality when it impedes upon my own rights as a Christian.
That is where you are completely wrong.
This is one great reason why both Christians and non-christians alike voted for prop 8.
The people, as a whole, recognize that the notion that we have to recognize homosexuality as a right has no good for anyone.

It is people like you that want to force upon us your HOPE and your DESIRE that people must accept what a homosexual person does.
Prop 8 shows that the very few homosexuals out there are not going to tell us what to accept nor what to believe.

And, this bothers you to no end.
Too bad.
You could be believing in Jesus who CARES and LOVES you (just as I do), but you would rather trust in a people who are running from God.

Originally posted by SaintlyMic

No, I do NOT.
If I ACCEPT homosexuality as a right of the individual it would go against EVERYTHING JESUS REPRESENTS.

Here, we have a problem. What you think Jesus stands for would make him a fascist.

I somehow doubt that if Jesus existed, he'd have a problem with what people do behind closed doors to express LOVE.


So clearly you've either been lied to, and Jesus didn't have a problem with it.
Or Jesus was a fascist who wants to enforce strict control of how you are allowed to express love.

I'm leaning more to the idea that you've been lied to.


The ultimate problem, is that you are assuming you know what these figures and god wants, because you read it in a book.

The book was written by men... edited by men... revised by men...

See where the common issue is?

Men lie.


Let's re-iterate.

Men lie.
Men wrote the bible, claiming to know what god wants.
You assume these men aren't lying.

Why?

Why do you assume the men who wrote the bible weren't lying?

God told you?
God doesn't intervene... it's written.
But clearly he would have intervened in order to tell people he doesn't.

See... when things start contradicting themselves like this... you can be sure whoever made these lies up weren't omnipotent.
So whoever made these lies up, wasn't god.

So whatever you've been reading...

... guess what...

It's a lie.


You think you're obeying god, and Jesus.

All you're doing is obeying a few people who wrote a book, and lied to you claiming they know what god and Jesus wants.

NO HUMAN CAN KNOW WHAT A GOD WANTS UNTIL THEY ARE DEAD.
ANYONE TRYING TO CLAIM OTHERWISE IS LYING TO YOU.

Well, what a few men wrote in a book while lying about hearing god and putting words in Jesus' mouth... this isn't law.

And thank god for that, we'd still be burning people on suspicion of witchcraft.


Again, You're mistaking what a few power hungry authors said to be the defining line between right and wrong.

FREEDOM and LIBERTY is RIGHT.
FASCISM is WRONG.

What you are preaching, is fascism.

I don't care what they do in the bedroom.
Are you forced to watch?
Are you forced to participate?
Are you a victim of homosexuality?
NO, of course you're not.

So where's your issue?
Do you just get your jollies on the idea of dictating what people can do to express their love for each other?

Does that make you happy?

How far would you go to enforce non-homosexuality?
Would you round them up?
Shove them in an oven? Gas chamber?

How can you possibly enforce what you're preaching?
You can't!

Jesus doesn't address this issue directly. Its all the others around him that do.
Homophobic reactions are gender oriented so it makes men feel uncomfortable, and society has been patriarchal by and large for many thousands of years. These things written are merely customs and the political flavor of the time. And they were divorced from medical knowledge. But today, many years later, there is no excuse for modern people to pour over these ancient scripts and ignore their own common sense, their intellect, and modern science to keep myths that need be shelved alive. Its really frightening.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by niteboy82

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
What I did say, is because of our democratic process, that it is revealed that the majority of the people are resisting the homosexual BELIEF that we MUST accept what they DO.

This is where you will always be wrong. You are not a homosexual (I would hope) and I will tell you that I care not what you accept. Your acceptance is some form of a holier-than-thou permission you apparently believe is bestowed upon you to give or refuse to homosexuals. Bluntly put, homosexuals don't give a care about what you accept, they simply want to be left alone and allowed to live their life.

Any personal issues on your side at that point are just that; your personal issues.

This is what has angered the homosexuals.

That you don't accept them, or that you feel you have the right to determine what they do on their own time with their own free will? Believe it or not, they get that same free will that you get.

And, in this case of prop 8, the majority IS RIGHT!

And look how much money it took to convince people of it. Amazing. I forget that in order for people to do right, you have to convince them real hard, with as much threat of eternal damnation as you can muster and get good spots in between the choice sitcom of the day for commercials to push it. Because they would never just be able to distinguish right from wrong on their own without a bunch of religious types ramming it through their heads continuously before the big vote, right?

Impressive.

Whatever, Ms. Bush...
I NEVER said I reject the homosexual.
I said I reject what they DO.
Big difference.

No one is ramming anything upon you.
That was the same attitude of the sodomites.
They said to Lot, "...now you think to be our judge...".
You and homosexuals have the same mentality as those of Sodom.

I have in no way pushed anything about God on ATS.
Quite the opposite.
I have SHARED to TRUTH concerning God and what HE says is right or wrong.
But, what you and others who agree with you are trying to do is push on me that I have to accept homosexual behavior.

I already said many times on ATS that I receive the homosexual, but I do NOT receive their homosexual behavior.
Get your facts straight.
I never once said I do not accept the homosexual as a person.

Just because I speak against the homosexual ACT, all of you think you have to descend upon me like a pack of wolves.
Again, the same mentality as the sodomites.

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
I have in no way pushed anything about God on ATS.
Quite the opposite.
I have SHARED to TRUTH concerning God and what HE says is right or wrong.

Wrong.

You're sharing what is CLAIMED to be the word of god, by the Authors of the bible.

You're assuming they weren't lying.


And who the heck cares if you think we resemble someone from a fictitious city that was fabled to have been destroyed.
I don't.

I KNOW that dictating to people who they are allowed to love, and how they are allowed to love them is just plain wrong.

Personally, I don't believe that fascists should be allowed to breed, make love, or have relations at all... and yes, I view you as a fascist.

Am I going to try to enact it as law?
No of course not.

Know why?

Because I REFUSE TO BE A FASCIST.