Sparks Fly As 'Gay" Activist Mob Swarms Christians

reply to post by SaintlyMic


Oh for goodness sake. I'm not bothering with you anymore. This isn't an intellectual discussion, it hasn't been since you started thinking that somehow gays affect you and your right to practise Christianity.

reply to post by Good Wolf


No, he thinks his practice of his Christianity gives him the right to enforce his views on other people.

Same thing we've been dealing with since Christianity started.


Next he'll be telling us they're witches or something.

Or maybe he'll just skip straight to building iron maidens and enacting the inquisition all over again.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by johnsky]

Originally posted by johnsky

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
I have in no way pushed anything about God on ATS.
Quite the opposite.
I have SHARED to TRUTH concerning God and what HE says is right or wrong.

Wrong.

You're sharing what is CLAIMED to be the word of god, by the Authors of the bible.

You're assuming they weren't lying.


And who the heck cares if you think we resemble someone from a fictitious city that was fabled to have been destroyed.
I don't.

I KNOW that dictating to people who they are allowed to love, and how they are allowed to love them is just plain wrong.

Personally, I don't believe that fascists should be allowed to breed, make love, or have relations at all... and yes, I view you as a fascist.

Am I going to try to enact it as law?
No of course not.

Know why?

Because I REFUSE TO BE A FASCIST.

I never told ANYONE who they can "LOVE".
You confuse LOVE with LUST.
We have been discussing the LUST issue of the homosexual; not WHO they LOVE, but HOW they LOVE.

Scripture clearly tells us that same gender sexual AFFECTION and LUST is WRONG!
Loving someone is NOT the same thing as lusting for them.
And, I honestly do not care if you reject the Bible.
That is on you.
You can reject what you want, just like I have the right to reject homosexual behavior.

As for you hinting that I am a Fascist...
You are WRONG!
I love everyone, and everyone has a right in this country to believe and do what they want as long as it is LEGAL.
But, I am NOT required to accept homosexual behavior!
There is not one law that tells me I have to do that.

[edit on 12/1/2008 by SaintlyMic]

reply to post by johnsky


Yea you're probably right. Tis a shame that God is so bored he feels the need to turn his blind followers on everyone else. I guess war is funny to a supreme being

Originally posted by SaintlyMic

Scripture clearly tells us that same gender sexual AFFECTION and LUST is WRONG!

Who's scripture?

Yours? Or are you finally going to get the opinion of the rest of us on this planet?


Your scripture isn't law... it's just a book... a rather obviously fictitious book I might add.

You gonna start citing harry potter next?

And yes... enforcing your value system on other people IS fascism.
Just because you're holding an old novel doesn't mean your right.
You don't see me walking around with a copy of Mein Comf claiming to be an authority on gays either.

... but they say the same thing.


Let them have their liberty.
What possible harm can it do you?

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's wrong.

... otherwise we would have seen spinach outlawed a long time ago. lol.


You really need to realize that ANYONE who claims to know what god wants, without being dead, is lying to you.
Hence, ANYONE claiming to know what god wants is LYING.

Do you not see this blatant fallibility?

[edit on 1-12-2008 by johnsky]

reply to post by johnsky

You confuse LOVE with LUST.

He also thinks that two gay me are incapable of being in love, but rather it's just lust. Right. Though that doesn't make much sense when they are old and wrinkly. Yep lotta lust for the oldies.



[edit on 1/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf


I'm starting to wonder if religious fundamentalists are capable of love...

... clearly all they have for everyone is contempt.

reply to post by johnsky


I feel the worst ones are repressing something, whether it be their own homosexuality or maybe inadequacy. But I think that Dogma has a lot to do with it.

[edit on 1/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf


The part I find interesting is how long we exist in the womb without a determined gender. Then some tiny chemical flip of the coin determines our gender.

There is so little that defines a man from a woman in many cases. It's just a different chemical mix that sets it.
Hence, why if you mess with that chemical mix, traits of the other gender start becoming apparent.

And this is what defines which gender we fall in love with as well.
It's such a fine line that depicts gender.

Me, I know I'm programmed to find women sexually appealing. I can't deny that, it's what my hormones tell me is appealing. Hence, that's who I seek to find love.
(And yes, we clearly understand the difference between love and lust. Had enough one night stands to know that one, lol.)

Knowing that it's such a tiny deviance that depicts these traits, and that over 10% of people wind up homo-sexual due to these triggers... how can I possibly tell someone it's wrong?!

I'm not about to step into someone else's life and say... "HEY, you can't stick that there!... this book says it's wrong!"
lol.

Maybe we should though.
Maybe we should congregate together, and walk into the bedrooms of religious fundamentalists and scream at them "YOU'RE NOT PLEASURING THEM CORRECTLY!" While pointing at a book on Karma Sutra.

It would be worthy of YouTube.


The underlying problem really is though, that the religious fundamentalists have ALWAYS been trying to enforce their view of the world (as depicted by a novel, lol) on everyone else.
It's why we ended up with the Spanish Inquisition.
It's why so many Muslims were massacred in the Crusades.
It's why Hitler burned the gays along side the Jews.
It's why the witch hunts began, where anyone and their nephew could claim their wife was a witch after spending the night on the couch.

The hilarious part is, when they grow old, they always end up apologizing for being this way.

They're only fascist while they've got their life ahead of them... at the end of it all, they realize they probably totally peeved off their god, and if they don't apologize for being so fascist, they'll rot in hell.

It's a pity fascism thrives in young people so easily.


I've always taken a stance of "I don't mess with you, and you don't give me a reason to have to mess with you."

But fascism...
Now THAT is a reason for retaliation.


If these religious nuts can decide how gays are allowed to express their love and passion, then we're next my friend.

Who's to say after they're done claiming to be the moral authority on gays, that they don't turn to us atheists, agnostics, spiritualists, and every OTHER religion on the planet, and claim they don't have the right to consummate their love either?
They've got a good excuse... we don't worship their god.
They've attacked us so many times in the past for it, calling us heathens... I can only expect if they're given ANY authority at all, that they'll try it again.

Give these guys authority, and I guarantee you, we'll be burning everyone who isn't "Christian" enough on the stake by the end of the decade.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by johnsky]

reply to post by johnsky


I used to think it was a psychological cause to deviate from the norm but you are right, it's more chemical in early life than anything else. It's all quite fascinating.

I can't deny I'm attracted to women too , but I'd be lying to say that some guys don'tdraw my attention, sometimes.

You know the birth order has an effect too. Statistically if a woman has carried a boy to term in the past the second boy she carries to term is likely to 'hypermasculinise' making him gay or bi. I dare say that is probably the case with myself.

I think it's because the woman isn't quite able to reproduce the mixture of chemicals like the first time round.



[edit on 1/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by mystiq
Sexual identity and sexual preference is a fact of birth, its hard wired, the differences in individuals can be studied by scientists, and its a crime against humanity to even talk like that. God created everyone equally. The ancient, lacking of medical knowledge, thousands of year old, scriptures ARE WRONG. But it doesn't matter. The laws of the land are completely separate from anyones Bibles. They are secular and based on the medical knowledge and modern knowledge. So yes you have to accept everyone's sexual preferences, providing it is amongst consenting adults, nor may you oppose anyone chosing to marry their own sex or exercise any of their equal rights under the law. If you do, you should be charged for it.

What you propose is not scientifically proven at all.
All that science has proven is that the human brain is AFFECTED by homosexual thought and actions.

There has not been a study yet, where a newborn's brainwaves are recorded, then that newborn human be allowed to grow up not knowing this, then for the scientists to watch and see what type of person that infant grows up to be.
What science HAS PROVEN is that there are SOME homosexuals who have similar brainwave patterns as those of the opposite gender.

Not all homosexuals exhibit the same brainwaves as the opposite gender.
This is where you are WRONG in your estimation.
It has NOT been proven that homosexuals are born with the brainwaves as that of the opposite gender, and then that person taking on homosexual behavior.

God does NOT create humans to have a condition that would be wrong to have.
Being born with a defect is NOT the same thing as you propose.
You are just trying to use data that is not substantiated at all for what you are trying to propose.

There are differing degrees of brainwave patterns with every human that is born.
There are many homosexuals who would disagree with you completely because sometimes, and more often than not, a homosexual is still completely a man or a woman by behavior.

You are trying to defend homosexuals that homosexual men are born with female brainwave patterns, and homosexual women are born with male brainwave patterns.
In this you are very wrong.

People are born with differing degrees of brainwave patterns.
Some are born with SIMILAR brainwave patterns as those of the opposite gender, but this in no way means that they will BECOME a homosexual.

Men being effeminate are so by CHOICE, not by design.
Women can be manly by CHOICE, but not by design.
But, not all homosexuals exhibit the habits of the opposite gender.

Having sex with the same gender does not in any way denote that they will act like the opposite gender.
Just because someone has sex with the same gender does not mean that they are acting like the opposite gender.
Just because someone desires to do to the same things to the same gender that someone would do to the opposite gender does NOT mean that they will exhibit characteristics of the opposite gender.

So, your NOTION that a human is born homosexual is not warranted at all.
You just HOPE this is true to try to defend the homosexual, but in doing so you have disregarded the fact that not all homosexuals exhibit mannerisms of those of the opposite gender.

reply to post by Good Wolf


Yeah, that's the going theory at the moment.

Apparently after carrying a male child in the womb, the body begins to confuse it with a foreign object due to the male hormones present.

Once the second male child is in the womb, the body is already trying to combat those male hormones as a foreign agent.

At least, that's the layman version of it.


Me, I don't get physically attracted to men. In fact, the idea repulses me... but I'm not ashamed to admit which men I think would be attractive if the shoe were on the other foot.
... though, oddly enough, when talking with women on who is or isn't attractive, I tend to wind up dead wrong.

I guess I'm just a bad judge of attractive men. lol.

I can't see men as attractive beyond the concept of a painting being attractive.
But I can understand why others do... and I respect that.


I'm one of those who tried to test my boundaries, and found that they were way more strict than I imagined.

But at least I was open minded enough to try.

I would recommend these religious fundamentalists do the same before preaching their "value" system.
They might find out why they're so emotional about it.

Personally I believe... if you're really not gay, then you can't possibly feel angry when dealing with gays.
I'm comfortable with my sexuality, enough so that I can even torment gays by "flirting" with them... just for a laugh.

It usually takes a while before they think it's funny... once they've cooled down.

reply to post by SaintlyMic


Actually the roots of sexual orientation have been a interesting area of study.

Just a brief look over wikipedia.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated "Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences."[27] Debate continues over what biological and/or psychological variables influence sexual orientation in humans, such as genes and the exposure of certain levels of hormones to fetuses. Freud and other psychoanalysts maintain that sexual orientation is influenced by numerous factors including formative childhood experiences in some cases.

Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation

The hormonal theory of sexuality holds that, just as exposure to certain hormones plays a role in fetal sex differentiation, such exposure also influences the sexual orientation that emerges later in the adult. Fetal hormones may be seen as either the primary influence upon adult sexual orientation, or as co-factor interacting with genes and/or environmental and social conditions[28].

Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation

Recent studies found an increased chance of homosexuality in men whose mothers previously carried to term many male children. This effect is nullified if the man is left-handed.[29] No similar effect was found in women.[citation needed]

Biology and sexual orientation

Research has identified several biological factors which may be related to the development of sexual orientation, including genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure. No single controlling cause has been identified, and research is continuing in this area. At one time, twin studies appeared to point to a major genetic component, but problems in experimental design of the available studies have made their interpretation difficult, and one recent study appears to exclude genes as a major factor.[30]

Innate bisexuality

Innate bisexuality, or predisposition to bisexuality, is an idea introduced by Sigmund Freud, based on work by his associate Wilhelm Fliess. According to this theory, all humans are born bisexual but through psychological development, which includes both external and internal factors, become monosexual while the bisexuality remains in a latent state.

Wiki

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
What you propose is not scientifically proven at all.
All that science has proven is that the human brain is AFFECTED by homosexual thought and actions.

lol, whatever kid.

What YOU'RE proposing has no more validity than J.R.R Tolkien's: Lord Of The Rings.

I'll stick to Science... even on subjects that are still in theoretical terms.


But go ahead... if you want to preach a book that's been proven to be riddled with inconsistencies, which the editors refuse to update until 200 years (average) after they've been proven wrong... by all means.

I could use the comedy.


But... I'll have to ask you to turn in any and all items that have resulted from scientific theory before arguing.

... that would include the computer you're typing in with.

Or... I might suggest you test the theory of gravity... the higher the cliff the better. The results can be quite mind opening.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by johnsky]

reply to post by johnsky


I'm not very attracted to guys, I'm certainly more attracted to gals than guys, it's not simple, there are a lot factors to it and looks are a minor thing.

But testing your boundaries, your braver than most. Being that most people are to some degree bisexual, fear and homophobia is common.


Yea, I was the second born son of only two. The only other non-hetero that I know of (excluding closets) is also the second born of two. So there you go.

[edit on 1/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Do you think it may be possible to get back to the topic?

"Sparks Fly As 'Gay" Activist Mob Swarms Christians"

Please if you want to examine Homosexuality start a thread with that purpose.

Any further comments not On Topic will be removed.

Thank you

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


After 47 pages of comments just about everything that is on topic has been said.

It seems the fate of just about all threads to regress into a greater picture or subject matter.